Russia pushes for Su-35 in a bid to lure Bangladesh Air Force

[LKJ86]

China-make WS-10B engine is more of a reason that BAF avoids its purchase of J-10. Chinese engines are not yet matured. By the way, your MBT-2000 has also some problems and BA is unhappy with it.

I personally do not want BD to purchase any more defense-related goods from backstabber China. BD must bypass China and Russia and go for western NATO-standard equipment. For non-jet items, Turkey can be a good source. Even Turkish submarines follow high-quality German standards.

I never said China wanted to sell J-10C to Bangladesh.

China just provides the best product at same price in the world. But no ones push you to buy Chinese products, and don't take yourselves seriously.

 

[bluesky]

I never said China wanted to sell J-10C to Bangladesh.

China just provides the best product at same price in the world. But no ones push you to buy Chinese products, and don't take yourselves seriously.

No, you did not say about J-10 induction but it is being talked about for a few months now. Note the excerpt from the original text of the news. It states also of the single-engine J-10 planes. But, my personal opinion is to buy F-16 instead of J-10 with the Chinese engine.

"BAF will shortly sign agreements with the United Kingdom for Eurofighter Typhoon EF2000 fighter aircraft. The acquisition will complete the requirement for “heavy multi-role combat aircraft” leaving the maritime strike fighters and single engine fighter aircraft still to be decided.

The single engine fighter aircraft segment is covered by F-16, Jas-39 and J-10 with Russia automatically out of the bid having no single engine fighters to offer even though they offered MiG-35 to become the “backbone fighter” of the BAF".

 

[LKJ86]

No, you did not say about J-10 induction but it is being talked about for a few months now. Note the excerpt from the original text of the news. It states also of the single-engine J-10 planes. But, my personal opinion is to buy F-16 instead of J-10 with the Chinese engine.

"BAF will shortly sign agreements with the United Kingdom for Eurofighter Typhoon EF2000 fighter aircraft. The acquisition will complete the requirement for “heavy multi-role combat aircraft” leaving the maritime strike fighters and single engine fighter aircraft still to be decided.

The single engine fighter aircraft segment is covered by F-16, Jas-39 and J-10 with Russia automatically out of the bid having no single engine fighters to offer even though they offered MiG-35 to become the “backbone fighter” of the BAF".

As I know, China only shows J-10C to Pakistan and Thailand publicly.

And Singapore used to say to be considering 5th-generation fighters including J-20. But it is funny, as J-20 is not for export.

 

[Indos]

As I know, China only shows J-10C to Pakistan and Thailand publicly.

And Singapore used to say to be considering 5th-generation fighters including J-20. But it is funny, as J-20 is not for export.

So it means the chance for Bangladesh to procure KFX (if the program is successful) is getting bigger.

 

[LKJ86]

So it means the chance for Bangladesh to procure KFX (if the program is successful) is even bigger.

LOL
No ideas.

 

[Bilal9]

I think the reason that BAF is waiting to decide on new single engine fighter (a bit of topic for this thread), is because the existing choices are all a couple of decades (at least a decade) old. This is a crucial time where 5th Gen. aircraft are coming online (with extensive redesign for having stealth profile) and 4th Gen. aircraft will rapidly become obsolete.

As a result, 4th gen. aircraft (if they are still being produced) will not demand premium pricing, which may be a boon to Bangladesh Air Force (for now, 4th gen. can be usable for at least one more decade).

These below are the 5th Gen. small fighter programs, some are already flying.

Shenyang J-31 (F-60) – China

This fighter aircraft by China is currently under progress by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and first flew in 2012. The aircraft is also popularly known by the names Falcon Hawk, F-60 or J-21 Snowy Owl, Gyrfalcon, etc. This may or may not be offered for export.

7. TAI TFX / F-X – Turkey

Turkey has started its work in the development of its personal fifth generation aircraft known as TFX by the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). Still on paper.

6. Mitsubishi ATD-X (Shinshin) – Japan

Currently flying. Japan committed in the development of fifth generation fighter aircraft known as ATD-X (Shinshin). This aircraft uses the stealth technology which is being developed for the research purposes by Ministry of Defense Technical Research and Development Institute (TRDI). Considered as the first domestic stealth fighter from Japan

5. KAI KF-X – South Korea

KAI KF-X is being developed for the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) and Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU). Still on paper but progressing rapidly. Indonesia is investing 20% in project. There are two versions it seems. C100 and C200. Still on paper.

6. Mikoyan LMFS - Russia

This is the successor to the Mig-35's role in stealth redesign (LMFS stands for Liogkiy Mnogofunktsionalniy Frontovoi Samolyet — or Light Multi-Function Frontal Aircraft). Still in very initial stages of design. Went through many design changes and will go through a couple more it seems. Still on paper.

I intentionally left out Indian JV's with Russia but the LMFS might be in that category. BAF will not make any purchases from India, that we can be certain. And F-35 is wayyyy to expensive for BAF (way overkill and skills to operate does not currently exist).

Here is a rough idea of size for some of these.

 

[LKJ86]

I think the reason that BAF is waiting to decide on new single engine fighter (a bit of topic for this thread), is because the existing choices are all a couple of decades (at least a decade) old. This is a crucial time where 5th Gen. aircraft are coming online (with extensive redesign for having stealth profile) and 4th Gen. aircraft will rapidly become obsolete.

As a result, 4th gen. aircraft (if they are still being produced) will not demand premium pricing, which may be a boon to Bangladesh Air Force (for now, 4th gen. can be usable for at least one more decade).

These below are the 5th Gen. small fighter programs, some are already flying.

Shenyang J-31 (F-60) – China

This fighter aircraft by China is currently under progress by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and first flew in 2012. The aircraft is also popularly known by the names Falcon Hawk, F-60 or J-21 Snowy Owl, Gyrfalcon, etc. This may or may not be offered for export.

7. TAI TFX / F-X – Turkey

Turkey has started its work in the development of its personal fifth generation aircraft known as TFX by the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). Still on paper.

6. Mitsubishi ATD-X (Shinshin) – Japan

Currently flying. Japan committed in the development of fifth generation fighter aircraft known as ATD-X (Shinshin). This aircraft uses the stealth technology which is being developed for the research purposes by Ministry of Defense Technical Research and Development Institute (TRDI). Considered as the first domestic stealth fighter from Japan

5. KAI KF-X – South Korea

KAI KF-X is being developed for the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) and Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU). Still on paper but progressing rapidly. Indonesia is investing 20% in project. There are two versions it seems. C100 and C200. Still on paper.

6. Mikoyan LMFS - Russia

This is the successor to the Mig-35's role in stealth redesign (LMFS stands for Liogkiy Mnogofunktsionalniy Frontovoi Samolyet — or Light Multi-Function Frontal Aircraft). Still in very initial stages of design. Went through many design changes and will go through a couple more it seems. Still on paper.

I intentionally left out Indian JV's with Russia but the LMFS might be in that category. BAF will not make any purchases from India, that we can be certain. And F-35 is wayyyy to expensive for BAF (way overkill and skills to operate does not currently exist).

Here is a rough idea of size for some of these.

 

[Avicenna]

I think the reason that BAF is waiting to decide on new single engine fighter (a bit of topic for this thread), is because the existing choices are all a couple of decades (at least a decade) old. This is a crucial time where 5th Gen. aircraft are coming online (with extensive redesign for having stealth profile) and 4th Gen. aircraft will rapidly become obsolete.

As a result, 4th gen. aircraft (if they are still being produced) will not demand premium pricing, which may be a boon to Bangladesh Air Force (for now, 4th gen. can be usable for at least one more decade).

These below are the 5th Gen. small fighter programs, some are already flying.

Shenyang J-31 (F-60) – China

This fighter aircraft by China is currently under progress by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and first flew in 2012. The aircraft is also popularly known by the names Falcon Hawk, F-60 or J-21 Snowy Owl, Gyrfalcon, etc. This may or may not be offered for export.

7. TAI TFX / F-X – Turkey

Turkey has started its work in the development of its personal fifth generation aircraft known as TFX by the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). Still on paper.

6. Mitsubishi ATD-X (Shinshin) – Japan

Currently flying. Japan committed in the development of fifth generation fighter aircraft known as ATD-X (Shinshin). This aircraft uses the stealth technology which is being developed for the research purposes by Ministry of Defense Technical Research and Development Institute (TRDI). Considered as the first domestic stealth fighter from Japan

5. KAI KF-X – South Korea

KAI KF-X is being developed for the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) and Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU). Still on paper but progressing rapidly. Indonesia is investing 20% in project. There are two versions it seems. C100 and C200. Still on paper.

6. Mikoyan LMFS - Russia

This is the successor to the Mig-35's role in stealth redesign (LMFS stands for Liogkiy Mnogofunktsionalniy Frontovoi Samolyet — or Light Multi-Function Frontal Aircraft). Still in very initial stages of design. Went through many design changes and will go through a couple more it seems. Still on paper.

I intentionally left out Indian JV's with Russia but the LMFS might be in that category. BAF will not make any purchases from India, that we can be certain. And F-35 is wayyyy to expensive for BAF (way overkill and skills to operate does not currently exist).

Here is a rough idea of size for some of these.

Bangladesh has only 8 early 4th generation fighters.

To expand that force and even thinking about skipping to 5th generation types is absurd.

The delay IMO is due to the changing political realities more so than anything tactical.

The longer the delay, the more likely a Western source.

And the greater financial capability Bangladesh will have to undertake such a purchase.

If BAF were to adopt a Russian or Chinese type it likely would be done earlier rather than later.

What’s needed more than anything is a culture change at the BAF to one of realizing that there are real threats emerging with Myanmar rather than some abstract theoretical ones with India.

 

[Kabotar]

Bangladesh has only 8 early 4th generation fighters.

To expand that force and even thinking about skipping to 5th generation types is absurd.

The delay IMO is due to the changing political realities more so than anything tactical.

The longer the delay, the more likely a Western source.

And the greater financial capability Bangladesh will have to undertake such a purchase.

If BAF were to adopt a Russian or Chinese type it likely would be done earlier rather than later.

What’s needed more than anything is a culture change at the BAF to one of realizing that there are real threats emerging with Myanmar rather than some abstract theoretical ones with India.

I don't know why BAF is not looking at Gripen. Saab is willing to provide local production even for smaller orders. Gripen will provide almost the same weapons package as Eurofighter including Meteor so BAF will have reasonable air superiority against regional adversaries it is suppose to be cheaper to operate, quicker turnaround time and can take off from smaller runways. Bangladesh can use Saab's expertise to help develop network centric warfare capabilities. 36 of these will be good enough to replace your F7s. If BAF orders today it will be get last aircraft in mid to late 20s by that time more 5th gen planes will be on the market or closer to production so BAF will have a nice high low fleet.

 

[Avicenna]

I don't know why BAF is not looking at Gripen. Saab is willing to provide local production even for smaller orders. Gripen will provide almost the same weapons package as Eurofighter including Meteor so BAF will have reasonable air superiority against regional adversaries it is suppose to be cheaper to operate, quicker turnaround time and can take off from smaller runways. Bangladesh can use Saab's expertise to help develop network centric warfare capabilities. 36 of these will be good enough to replace your F7s. If BAF orders today it will be get last aircraft in mid to late 20s by that time more 5th gen planes will be on the market or closer to production so BAF will have a nice high low fleet.

Yup.

Agree.

 

[American Pakistani]

Then why you buy it?

I think there is a misunderstanding in how you can use it.

If Pakistan initiates the war then Pakistan can't use it against India. But if India initiates the war and attacks first, then Pakistan can defend with these aircraft and also carry out out inside Indian territory with these. If that's not the case then there is no point buying such an aircraft.

In any case, if war breaks out Pakistan will not give two shits about those conditions and use the aircraft to the fullest extent. National defence comes first.

I don't buy it, Pakistan's authorized personal buys it because they have over obsession with f16.

There is no such clause of if Pakistan attack or India attack. Kindly post here if you have something sort.

Yes of course Pakistan would but will attract tons of sanction after war.

 

[Bengal71]

I don't buy it, Pakistan's authorized personal buys it because they have over obsession with f16.

There is no such clause of if Pakistan attack or India attack. Kindly post here if you have something sort.

Yes of course Pakistan would but will attract tons of sanction after war.

I don't have anything of that sort, just that it doesn't make sense purchasing an aircraft after spending so much money that can't be used against enemy in a war.

 

[ziaulislam]

kinda useless for BD to have an airforce, it can ask for indai help any time against myanmur whichitself has a punny airforce..so some SAMs will do no need for expenisive airforve

 

[Indos]

5. KAI KF-X – South Korea

KAI KF-X is being developed for the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) and Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU). Still on paper but progressing rapidly. Indonesia is investing 20% in project. There are two versions it seems. C100 and C200. Still on paper.


Here is a rough idea of size for some of these.

KFX/IFX program has finalized its preliminary design with KFX 109 since mid 2018 and finished 70 % of its detail design September this year. Those two KFX design are the one with canard and the other without it that are reviewed during 2011-2013 period, in Desember 2013 KFX 103 has been choosen (two engine without canard). The photo that you bring is the old photo of KFX, final design (KFX 109) is bigger than F 35 and you can see the 100 % size mock up on the internet or on the thread that I made (Adex 2019)

This is the latest graphic and you can see KFX C 109 design size compared to other fighters

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh has only 8 early 4th generation fighters.

To expand that force and even thinking about skipping to 5th generation types is absurd.

The delay IMO is due to the changing political realities more so than anything tactical.

The longer the delay, the more likely a Western source.

And the greater financial capability Bangladesh will have to undertake such a purchase.

If BAF were to adopt a Russian or Chinese type it likely would be done earlier rather than later.

What’s needed more than anything is a culture change at the BAF to one of realizing that there are real threats emerging with Myanmar rather than some abstract theoretical ones with India.

Well I'd rather keep an open mind about leap-frogging and encourage open thinking than to be limited to being a spineless force today's BAF is, in spite of our economic position. It may not be THAT absurd.

When you are an attractive target for domination and exploitation like we are, countries like India will make "Faida Uthana" moves, and we will have nothing to counter that with sans diplomacy. This is NOT a tenable situation.

Their agents (declared or undeclared) are sitting in Dhaka right now and dictating our foreign policy to SUIT THEIR NEEDS. Think about that without going all India-friendly. We can't allow this.

F-35 and F-22 flew and are in service for last 12 years. Most larger aviation oriented countries (who can afford it) are developing their 5th Gen. fighter (FGFA) program. The reason is simple - qualitative advantage of weaponry.

If we plan to get FGFA platforms in five or even ten more years (purchased since we don't even have Pakistan's capability, in spite of having a higher per capita GDP) we need to plan now.

Pakistan already is planning to manufacture (not assemble, nor purchase) an FGFA. Granted current conditions economically aren't favorable, but the plan is there. Surely we can at least have a plan to purchase?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/project-azm-stealth-ambition-project.522011/page-68