Russia Planning a Catapult Launch System Aircraft Carrier, Any new planes for India?

[sancho]

Do you think IAC-2 maybe of a similar type,, given that the navy has still not finalised a design yet?

It would be logical, since we build IAC 1 as a STOBAR design and the hybrid carrier would take 90% of that carrier into a larger scale and add 1 or 2 catapults. But this is India and logic and rational is not always prefered.

 

[Ind4Ever]

If the N-FGFA comes to the IN (big if) the likelihood of a N-AMCA plummets yet lower (even now it is unlikely ).

N FGFA will come in place when we need it . And AMCA , LCA mk2 fgfa will have their own benefits . We might end up using mixed fleet . Keep it aside . We will have Russian version of 5th gen naval fighter bomber like we bought Mig 29 K . So anyway we will end up using all the three fighters for different mission.

 

[DeathInvader]

Highly unlikely, there are no indications of such. All we know is the IN is very interested in having CATAOBAR capability on the IAC-2 and ideally this would be EMALS for which they have pushed hard.

The design was but finalised then all this talk of nuclear propulsion came into the public domain......

Perhaps the IN, on the back KF more detailed briefings from GD, have understood that to have EMALS they need a nuclear reactor.


Other than that I wouldn't bet my house on such a hybrid concept. There's a reason the world leaders (the US) in this field haven't gone down this road- it comes with its own shortcomings.

IN might have downplayed the involvement of Russians in the IAC-2 and may have kept its interests in N-FGFA low until the EMAL tech transfer is completed. Americans may get hesitant to giving India EMALs given the fact that Russians might study it due to the close Indo-Russian ties. Just a thought!

It would be logical, since we build IAC 1 as a STOBAR design and the hybrid carrier would take 90% of that carrier into a larger scale and add 1 or 2 catapults. But this is India and logic and rational is not always prefered.

Haha, I am totally hoping logic prevails this time. N-FGFA could be a game changer.

 

[Ind4Ever]

IN might have downplayed the involvement of Russians in the IAC-2 and may have kept its interests in N-FGFA low until the EMAL tech transfer is completed. Americans may get hesitant to giving India EMALs given the fact that Russians might study it due to the close Indo-Russian ties. Just a thought!



Haha, I am totally hoping logic prevails this time. N-FGFA could be a game changer.

I agree with that . Now what India will do ?

 

[DeathInvader]

I agree with that . Now what India will do ?

It shouldn't do anything unless EMALS are fitted on IAC-2

 

[sancho]

IN might have downplayed the involvement of Russians in the IAC-2 and may have kept its interests in N-FGFA low until the EMAL tech transfer is completed. Americans may get hesitant to giving India EMALs given the fact that Russians might study it due to the close Indo-Russian ties. Just a thought!

I doubt that, once because it's the Russians that offering us pretty much everything to get us into joint development of the naval fighter, the carrier and if we want even nuclear propulsions, while it's our side (IN) that is blindly looking only to the US and how they do things. Also it would be in our favour in negotiations with the US, if we can show that we have an alternative that we consider, so downplaying that would be counter-productive don't you think?

Haha, I am totally hoping logic prevails this time. N-FGFA could be a game changer.

I hope so too and yes, N-FGFA is a game changer!

 

[Solomon2]

I'm not sure that Russia can pull this off. In the American experience carrier ops succeed because everyone depends upon everyone else. They believe in what they're doing and don't sabotage each other to get ahead. Victor Belenko, the Soviet pilot who flew his top-secret plane to Japan to defect to the U.S. in 1976, did not believe the U.S.S.R. could successfully operate a carrier. I doubt that Putin's neo-Soviet military can do it for the same reasons.

 

[Abingdonboy]

IN might have downplayed the involvement of Russians in the IAC-2 and may have kept its interests in N-FGFA low until the EMAL tech transfer is completed. Americans may get hesitant to giving India EMALs given the fact that Russians might study it due to the close Indo-Russian ties. Just a thought!


.

A nice thought but things rarely play out like this in reality. The US are not fools and they build in their own measures to protect their IPR and technical know how and India isn't some rogue nation- it plays by the rules and respects such rights (otherwise such tech wouldn't be on offer to india ).

And let's not romanticise the indo-Russian relationship it is almost solely transactional. Apart from the MKI (and even that was limited) and Brahmos what co-development success stories have there been between the two nations?

India sourcing the U.S. EMALS tech and then passing it on to Russia is bordering on the absurd my friend.

Like I said, the Russians see india as a cash cow- nothing more. The U.S. is perhaps more likely to actually be a reliable development partner in the long run than the Russians.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I'm not sure that Russia can pull this off. In the American experience carrier ops succeed because everyone depends upon everyone else. They believe in what they're doing and don't sabotage each other to get ahead. Victor Belenko, the Soviet pilot who flew his top-secret plane to Japan to defect to the U.S. in 1976, did not believe the U.S.S.R. could successfully operate a carrier. I doubt that Putin's neo-Soviet military can do it for the same reasons.

I agree, the Russian technical base (with respect to carriers and specifically CATOBAR carriers) is very low and it is going to take a very long time for them to indigenously develop all these systems and with their economic situation looking more and more glum I just don't see it starting anytime soon let alone delivering tangible results.

 

[DeathInvader]

I doubt that, once because it's the Russians that offering us pretty much everything to get us into joint development of the naval fighter, the carrier and if we want even nuclear propulsions, while it's our side (IN) that is blindly looking only to the US and how they do things. Also it would be in our favour in negotiations with the US, if we can show that we have an alternative that we consider, so downplaying that would be counter-productive don't you think?



I hope so too and yes, N-FGFA is a game changer!

Agreed! The only problem is Russians are not as advanced as carrier ops than US. But we are operating too much Russian stuffs already to complaint about it. I hope this new carrier also brings improvements. If Mig-35 Naval Version was launched with catapult launch friendly systems It could be a future replacement for 29ks too!

A nice thought but things rarely play out like this in reality. The US are not fools and they build in their own measures to protect their IPR and technical know how and India isn't some rogue nation- it plays by the rules and respects such rights (otherwise such tech wouldn't be on offer to india ).

And let's not romanticise the indo-Russian relationship it is almost solely transactional. Apart from the MKI (and even that was limited) and Brahmos what co-development success stories have there been between the two nations?

India sourcing the U.S. EMALS tech and then passing it on to Russia is bordering on the absurd my friend.

Like I said, the Russians see india as a cash cow- nothing more. The U.S. is perhaps more likely to actually be a reliable development partner in the long run than the Russians.

But US will never give us nuclear propulsion tech. We need Russians for that. It has also helped us building Arihant in the past. I hope Russians and US get along with the fact that we would be taking both their techs in building IAC-2

 

[Abingdonboy]

Agreed! The only problem is Russians are not as advanced as carrier ops than US. But we are operating too much Russian stuffs already to complaint about it. I hope this new carrier also brings improvements. If Mig-35 Naval Version was launched with catapult launch friendly systems It could be a future replacement for 29ks too!

And the indian military is actively diversifying away from Russian equipment, the situation in 10 years will be very different.

As for the MiG-35 as a replacement for the MiG-29K for the IN- there is just no way. The IN's MIG-29Ks will be retiring in the 2040s, the MiG-35 will hardly be a cutting edge platform and thus suitable replacement by then.

 

[Abingdonboy]

But US will never give us nuclear propulsion tech. We need Russians for that. It has also helped us building Arihant in the past. I hope Russians and US get along with the fact that we would be taking both their techs in building IAC-2

Afaik work is going on for larger PWRs for the IN's future SSBN/SSN class by the BAARC. Yes there was some Russian assistance with the PWR for the Arihant but that doesn't mean they (the Russians) will be directly involved in the IAC-2 project.

 

[sancho]

I agree, the Russian technical base (with respect to carriers and specifically CATOBAR carriers) is very low

Which as I told you before is not correct, they already had developed steam catapults, had their first hybrid carrier even in production in Soviet times, had developed catapult capable AEWs and it's not like EMALS is a super technology that only the US could develop. UK had started a similar project, the Chinese are already developing it and the Russians had started at least studies afaik in 2013/14.
Most importantly though is the fact that they are not aiming on developing CATOBAR carriers similar to the US carriers, but taking the next logical step in the evolution of their STOBAR carrier design!
That's why there is far little that they need to develop new as you might think, since they have decades of experience with STOBAR carriers and fighters, not to forget the recent design and development experience we gave them by re-designing the Gorshkov. They are supplying us with the arrested landing system for IAC1, so that side is covered too and all they need is the addition of catapults.
We all know that Russia's ability to design and develop shouldn't be underestimated, the only real problem they have now is, proper funding of such projects.

 

[HeinzG]

I think Russians already decided with some specs . One of them is to have 10-15% larger than US AC by 1.15 lac T

So it will be a juicy target for NATO. Russia should stick to submarines rather than aircraft carriers.

 

[DeathInvader]

Afaik work is going on for larger PWRs for the IN's future SSBN/SSN class by the BAARC. Yes there was some Russian assistance with the PWR for the Arihant but that doesn't mean they (the Russians) will be directly involved in the IAC-2 project.

IAC-2 will require 2 reactors if I'm not wrong. Not doubting India's capability but for quick R&Ds and swifter induction of IAC-2 we might need Russian help. IAC-2 is planned to be finished before scheduled and if India goes on its own it might hit delays and stuffs. If they are offering help then why not use it? N-FGFA could be a great deal for them if IAC-2 is inducted soon!