Russia offers Strike Optimised Sukhoi’s, OEM status for HAL

[The Great One]

if you add more weight the acceleration comes down, you need a more powerful engine to increase its acc. by just 10m/s² which means more infra red rcs and more fuel consumption. And it will be no longer be fit for dog fight.

So Rafale is the most pathetic dogfighter since it has 9.5 tons payload with only 150 Kn full thrust?
If they do come to a merge and if they aren't carrying critical payloads, they can always jettison it, plus you don't need to carry the full 12 tons all the time.

I know that very well....
If you compare the dimensions of the Wig and wing area of an MKI, Su-35, Su-34....,.there is little or no difference..
Wingspan of MKI is 14.78m,that of a Su-34 is 14.7m and that of a Su-35 is 15.0m
The wing areas are 62.4m2 and 62.01m2 and 62.01m2 respectively.....
So you see there is negligible difference....!!
Plus both the MKI and Su-34 have a Minimum of 10 hardpoints

Wing Size =/= strength.
Rafale = 45.7 m² Payload 9.5 tons
F-15 Strike Eagle = 56.5 m² Payload 10.4 tons
I don't know why I wrote this.

Currently how many of your MKIs have A-G capability and can can carry Targeting Pod?

All of them.

 

[koushik]

So Rafale is the most pathetic dogfighter since it has 9.5 tons payload with only 150 Kn full thrust?
If they do come to a merge and if they aren't carrying critical payloads, they can always jettison it, plus you don't need to carry the full 12 tons all the time.

Wing Size =/= strength.
Rafale = 45.7 m² Payload 9.5 tons
F-15 Strike Eagle = 56.5 m² Payload 10.4 tons
I don't know why I wrote this.


Empty weight of an MKI is 18,400 kg ( 40,565 lb)
That of an F-15E is 14,300 kg ( 31,700 lb)

A difference of 4,100 kg in terms of empty weight and..........the Pratt-Whitney F100-229 engines of the F-15E is marginally more powered than the AL-31FP

So Rafale is the most pathetic dogfighter since it has 9.5 tons payload with only 150 Kn full thrust?
If they do come to a merge and if they aren't carrying critical payloads, they can always jettison it, plus you don't need to carry the full 12 tons all the time.

Wing Size =/= strength.
Rafale = 45.7 m² Payload 9.5 tons
F-15 Strike Eagle = 56.5 m² Payload 10.4 tons
I don't know why I wrote this.


Empty weight of an MKI is 18,400 kg ( 40,565 lb)
That of an F-15E is 14,300 kg ( 31,700 lb)

A difference of 4,100 kg in terms of empty weight and..........the Pratt-Whitney F100-229 engines of the F-15E is marginally more powered than the AL-31FP

Empty weight of an MKI is 18,400 kg ( 40,565 lb)
That of an F-15E is 14,300 kg ( 31,700 lb)

A difference of 4,100 kg in terms of empty weight and..........the Pratt-Whitney F100-229 engines of the F-15E is marginally more powered than the AL-31FP

@The Great One

 

[PARIKRAMA]

• Su-34 is not an air-superiority fighter. It is a fighter-bomber.
• It has a side-by-side seating cockpit with a toilet and bed for pilots to relax on long range bomb runs.
• IAF yet does not have a doctrine of using bombers as of now and is using Mig27/Mirage/Jags for Deep Penetration strike
• The biggest advantage Su34 has over MKI is its terrain hugging ability which MKI lacks and was one of the critical factors used for evaluation in MMRCA also for a proper omnirole choice
• India's Choice for Su34 may be difficult as talks of PAK DA (bomber version) development is heard but induction in 2030+ timeframe. So even if Su34 first tested in 1991 and finally introduced in 2007, the aircraft is a 4th gen aircraft and will need a very "Strong" MLU to upgrade to 4.5++ Gen equivalent of say Rafale/Eurofighter equivalents. Need of a much stronger radar (MMR presently). Thus in a time frame of retiring jags uptill 2030 types, then whether to wait for PAK Da or induct 2-3 sqds of Su 34 is a question
• RAF has ordered around 140 Su34 Birds
• A question to think is Su34 is a very long endurance mission aircraft with range of 4000 kms it does provide us with a strategic depth for Swing combat in case of two front hostilities. Especially bcz the eastern border requirements needs a capable bird which can cross into deep territory in case of engagements. As of now that planners perceive Jags and perhaps Rafales (A2G mode) to fulfill.
• No external tank configs with weapon loads and ranges
  • 13500 kg on 500km Hi-Hi-Hi, 350km Hi-Low-Hi
  • 10950 kg on 1000km Hi-Hi-Hi, 550km Hi-Low-Hi, 350km Low-Low-Low
  • 8000 kg on 1450km Hi-Hi-Hi, 750km Hi-Low-Hi, 500km Low-Low-Low
  • 5000 kg on 2050km Hi-Hi-Hi, 1650 Hi-Low-Hi, 1000 Low-Low-Low
• Su-34 is designed to destroy high priority targets on operative and tactic ranges
• It is aerodynamically adjusted for long-range high-speed (sub and supersonic) low-altitude operations.
• it has very powerful electronic surveillance and suppression suite making it compatible to EA-18G Growler in SEAD/DEAD roles.
• And SEAD/DEAD is the second Su-34 primary role in Russian AF.
• The third main role is euro-strategic convention and nuclear strike and naval anti-carrier and anti-shipping operations which are on Tu-22M3 now. But Backfires are aging and too large for the navy needs.
• The main aim was to counter Nato Air Defence in europe so russians claim that Chines AD is inferior to NATO AD and thus Su34 fits into deep strike or SFC role perfectly
• Upgrade Plan is
  • There are plans to introduce Su-34M to change existing Su-34 on production line on NAPO.
  • It willl incorporate Su-35 integrated avionics (AESA radar, UV MAWS ad the other integrated optics - OEIS, 2 large displays for each pilot instead of 4 smaller ones, a new HUD - ShKAI-35, powerfull mission computers, new special designed ECM suit Tarantul, new ground-looking optical suite ), also new engines (Al-31FM2/FM3 14,5 tons thrust each) and new weapons designed for PAK FA.
  • There are rumors about even 117S engines for Su-34 for unification.
    
  • Upgrade initiated from 2013 onwards

​

• If bombers is what India looks into then India could or should look at Tu160
• 
  
  
  
  
  
  
• But these are massive fuel guzzlers and are very cost intensive in operating.
• UPFRONT Cost is HUGE
• Russia may NEVER SELL it to india

Various sources from google.
Primary data from
Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback; Russia's New Heavy Strike Fighter

i will leave you folks with these pics

 

[PARIKRAMA]

 

[PARIKRAMA]

 

[Last Samuri]

To much Russian dependence is not good thing.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

 

[Manindra]

Currently how many of your MKIs have A-G capability and can can carry Targeting Pod?

All of our Su30MKI have A-G capability and can carry Targeting Pod which we make more sharp in Super Sukhoi Upgrade.

 

[graphican]

Yak na shud do shud! That aircraft is a beast!

 

[IrbiS]

All of our Su30MKI have A-G capability and can carry Targeting Pod which we make more sharp in Super Sukhoi Upgrade.

It's Litening II or III? Anyway, if Rafale doesn't come which GOD Willing will happen soon; India needs another pod immediately comparable or better than the Sniper which can be used for A-A targets and can generate GPS co-ordinates of targets for satellite guided munitions. India should buy more LGBs+plus other western munitions and integrate them with Sushkas

 

[Manindra]

It's Litening II or III? Anyway, if Rafale doesn't come which GOD Willing will happen soon; India needs another pod immediately comparable or better than the Sniper which can be used for A-A targets and can generate GPS co-ordinates of targets for satellite guided munitions. India should buy more LGBs+plus other western munitions and integrate them with Sushkas

We use Israeli pod & our LGB program also on track & after Mirage 2000 & Jaguar's extensive upgrade our ground attack capabilities would be also increase but Rafale is capable to pierce multilayer air defence network & sufficient in self defence.
While MKI is mainly Air superiority fighter with second strike role & its A-G capability is inferior to even Mirage 2000-5.
So we need Dedicated Ground attack fighter with sufficient self defence like Rafale urgently.

 

[Tshering22]

Man! Putin is really pushing it for the French.

This is the last chance France has to agree for the 126+74 deal. A prudent Dassault should agree.

 

[sancho]

What exactly is offered in this Optimized package?

All multi role Flankers (be it Su 30, 34 or 35) have the same ammount of hardpoints or payload and even the A2G weapon pack can be pretty similar, the operational difference comes in the specializations. The Su 35 for example is specialized for A2A, that's why the focus was on less weight and RCS (single seat no canards,), long range detection of enemy fighters and flight performance (IRBIS-E radar, SC, TVC). The Su 34 has the same base, but was specialized for low level ground attacks (special radar modes and avionics, more cockpit amor, canards for low speed manuverability), as well as EW and Maritime Patrol missions too (jamming pods, special avionics and sensors, side by side cockpit). The Su 30 is basically a mix of both, it still maintains the aim on A2A capabilites by design, but adds the WSO to improve A2G capabilities too. The MKI also added good EW, the Litening and LGBs for additional stike capability, which will be further improved by the coming upgrades to Litening G4, advanced EW and additional cruise missile strike capability. Where it might have lacked so far, was the low level attack side, where upgrades on the Bars radar and the avionics might help and that's the interesting part of the article:

While it is still not clear if the offer is for a new platform ( Su-34 ) or New Avionics package suite which will perform strike roles better in Su-30s.

As much as I like the massive looks of the Su 34, I guess IAF will prefer the upgrade of the MKI systems, rather than adding Su 34s, especially with MMRCA still under consideration.

SU34 is a like mirage 2000, which plays more of a bomber aircraft role

Su 35 / Mirage 2000 C - both single seaters with aim on A2A capabilities
Su 34 / Mirage 2000 D - both twin seaters with the aim on A2G capabilities, due to WSO, specilized radar modes and avionics

The Mirage 2000 as such was never designed to be a strike fighter and not even IAF had that intention to use it as such. That's only a misconception based on it's success in Kargil, but it's main aim was always to be an interceptor with multi role capabilities.

 

[acid rain]

Man! Putin is really pushing it for the French.

This is the last chance France has to agree for the 126+74 deal. A prudent Dassault should agree.

All good...works for us...but our friends are counting on us to reject rafale as payback for the mistral eff up...lets see if GOI obliges.

 

[Turingsage]

What exactly is offered in this Optimized package?

GoGo strips on the side