Russia lifts embargo on weapons supplies to Pakistan

[Hyperion]

That's why I never ever used a credit card - cash is king!

View attachment 33839
Mi-28 Havoc

i'd rather we opt for this night capable beast



true - however it always comes down to finances and that is where we push ourselves into a corner of no options.

 

[RAMPAGE]

View attachment 33839
Mi-28 Havoc

i'd rather we opt for this night capable beast

We need these to complement our armor.

T-129s will be enough for COIN ops.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

When i look at the specs i see Viper , T-129 and Z-10 all three of them got at least 1000 m higher service ceiling than Mi-35 so i still believe Pakistan shouldn't go for this heli.

Respective service ceilings:

Viper 6,000+ m (20,000+ ft)
T-129 6,100 m (20,000 ft)
Z-10 6,400 m
Mi-35 4,900 m (16076 ft)

I already agreed with T-129 there is no argument about it. but we will keep it for our more traditional enemy on the east.
Z-10? I am not in its favor.

like I already explained, we dont need Hinds in the Siachin at the moment we need them in the terrain and heights that are similar to Afghanistan and thats where Hind has service history dating back few decades. the package it is offering just suits us perfectly for our COIN operations.

when we are done with Taliban and we have enough money to spare then T-129 will be inducted for sure.

 

[slapshot]

@Irfan Baloch I found an interesting information that Mi17 and Mi35 they both have same engine. This will be a big plus and will make it easy to induct them. We already have years of experience maintaining Mi17 which will come handy with Mi35.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch I found an interesting information that Mi17 and Mi35 they both have same engine. This will be a big plus and will make it easy to induct them. We already have years of experience maintaining Mi17 which will come handy with Mi35.

good find my dear

you might also find out that both have same origin as well and in addition to engines they share many other features as well.

 

[HAIDER]

Once upon a time MI24 in Pak army. But don't know how long it server..

Arthur ’at least’ one Mi-24 (the first one to land in Pakistan) was transferred to USA. This is mentioned in some detail in the book ‘The Bear Trap’. 6 Mi-24s in total defected to Pakistan during the Afghan War. One was given to USA, one was gifted to China and one to France (or was it England?). The dates on which these 6 Mi-24s defected is given below together with the pilot(s) name and place where they landed.

Date -------- Pilot ---------- Place

13-07-1985 -------- Capt. Hussain -------- Landed at Miranshah
16-07-1985 -------- Capt. Daud -------- Landed at Miranshah
23-10-1986 -------- Major. Abdul Munir -------- Landed at Kohat
03-10-1987 -------- Capt. Nokolai Petrovich+2 -------- Landed in Mastuj
03-10-1987 -------- Maj. Yevginin Koszminin+2 -------- Landed at Miranshah
03-07-1989 -------- Capt. Sakiuulah -------- Landed at Qila Abduallh

From 1984 onwards the CIA had been trying, through their agents, to get an Afghan pilot to defect with an M1-24 Hind helicopter gunship. They had made contacts in Kabul and time after time I would be told at short notice that the helicopter was arriving, so would I identify a suitable landing place, warn the PAF to receive it, not shoot it down, and ensure it was not destroyed on the ground by Soviet aircraft once it had landed. Needless to say, the plane never came and I gave up alerting the Air Force for these disruptive false alarms. The problem was that the CIA expected the pilot to conform exactly to some prearranged date and time schedule for his escape. They found it hard to understand that such a plan must be simple and allow the defector complete freedom to chose the time and place. The opportunity, when it came, would be fleeting and had to be seized at once without telling the CIA in advance. In the end it was our plan that gave the CIA not one, but two, M1-24s.

I merely explained to the Party Leaders that we needed to acquire such a helicopter. They simply let it be known in Kabul that a defector would be welcome. One afternoon in mid-1985 I received a call telling me that two M1-24s had landed at Miram Shah, just inside Pakistan. Apparently, on arrival, the startled border security force officer had explained to them that they had made a mistake and landed in Pakistan; if they so wished he would turn his back while they took off again. They stayed; although one co-pilot had no idea that his captain was defecting when they took off from Kabul. Within hours we started receiving congratulatory messages; every embassy wanted to examine the helicopters. For two weeks they were kept securely at an air base before experts from the UK, West Germany, France and China were permitted to examine and photograph them. After a few weeks they were transported to the US, as, eventually, were four of the six crew members. There were other defections by Afghan pilots. The first was an MI-8 helicopter pilot early in the war. This was followed by a light aircraft. During the flight the pilot had told the co-pilot that he was heading for Pakistan to defect. The co-pilot objected violently, so the captain pulled out his pistol and shot him dead in the cockpit. The CIA also got their hands on a SU22 fighter aircraft through the defection of an ace Afghan pilot, Captain Nabi, who for some time fought as a Mujahideen commander until petty bickering with his Party led to his opting to go to the US.

 

[Zhukov]

Once upon a time MI24 in Pak army. But don't know how long it server..

Defectees from Afghanistan after soviet withdrawl. Never officially commissiomed because of lack of maintenance and support.
A senior can guide properly

 

[ANG]

Analysts Welcome Russian Decision on Arms Sales To Pakistan | Defense News | defensenews.com

Analysts Welcome Russian Decision on Arms Sales To Pakistan

Jun. 4, 2014 - 10:24AM |
By USMAN ANSARI
ISLAMABAD — Analysts have welcomed Russia’s decision to loosen its longstanding restrictive arms supply policy toward Pakistan and sell helicopter gunships, but are unsure what the final results will be.
Further details of the negotiations are unknown.
A spokesperson for the Defense Ministry here would not comment on specific details of what was being discussed with their Russian counterparts, saying only that deliberations were underway.
The issue of cost, “not only of acquisition but of operation, maintenance and eventual upgrade” is a strong plus when considering Russian arms, says former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley.
“Both India and Pakistan have found, to their distaste, that although US defense products are very good, they are inordinately expensive and very costly to run. It makes sense to go for reasonably priced equipment that is not over-complex and doesn’t take a fortune to acquire and operate”, he said.
Analyst Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said Pakistan’s Russian arms wish list will be long. However, he said there is the strong possibility the helicopter mentioned as being under discussion is not the Mi-35 Hind, but the Mi-28 Havoc.
“I have the feeling they are talking about Mi-28, which [former Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq] Kiyani discussed with the Russians,” he said.
Khan said even a slight improvement in arms transfers could actually benefit Sino-Pakistani deals such as the possible one for the FC-20 variant of the Chengdu J-10B.
“If the door is opened then the issue of the [Saturn] AL-31F and the FC-20 deal could move a little further,” he said in reference to its Russian engine.
Similarly, Siemon Wezeman, senior researcher, Arms Transfers and Arms Production Programme, at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, said, Pakistan would potentially “look for Russian equipment of types that China does not yet produce or is not yet ready to export.”
Wezeman agrees defense deals with cash-strapped Pakistan “will not make Russia rich” even though Pakistan will still have to pay for them, unlike the very flexible deals inked with China.
However, a primary issue is how this will affect Russia’s relations with its South Asian strategic partner, and Pakistan’s arch-rival, India.
“Until now, India has always been trying to persuade Russia not to sell too much advanced weapons to Pakistan. Some Mi-17 helicopters were delivered and they didn’t much change the balance with India, but advanced versions of the Mi-24 would be something else. It seems almost to come at a very wrong time for Russia-Indian relations,” Wezeman said.
Wezeman points out “India is still Russia’s main market and to some extent, even the much-needed financier for development of new weapons such as the PAKFA [fighter jet].”
However, he highlights a growing Indian criticism over the “quality and price of Russian weapons delivered [e.g. Su-30 aircraft, T-90 tanks and the Gorshkov aircraft carrier that went massively over price] and the prospects of getting something useful and affordable from development cooperation [e.g. in the PAKFA or the MTA transport aircraft].”
This is in contrast to improving relations and arms deals with the US.
Khan also highlights India signing billions of dollars worth of defense deals with American, European and Israeli companies as well as with Japan, and not with Russian companies, but says there are also “other geo-strategic factors.”
“China and Russia are increasingly threatened by the US and EU along with Australia and Japan. Both China and Russia have pushed hard for the establishment of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia, and Shanghai Cooperation Organization,” which Pakistan is a member of.
However, Wezeman says Russia may still be able to convince India that its arms deals with Pakistan “are limited in number and level of technology and potentially mainly useful for Pakistan for use against local Pakistani extremists” to deflect opposition.
Cloughley said India may not be as opposed to Russo-Pakistani deals as one may expect.
“Acquisition by Pakistan of Russian military helicopters is most interesting, even fascinating, in its international relations aspects, as well as in practical terms, because it signals increasing pragmatism all round,” he said.
Adding, “In spite of [Indian Prime Minister] Narendra Modi being of strongly nationalistic inclination he is a realist and it is unlikely that this defense deal [if it happens] will affect Delhi-Moscow or Delhi-Washington relations.”
But there is one thing that unites India and Pakistan: Their pro-business governments want to push trade in general and bilateral trade in particular to revive their economies.
“Modi is prepared to involve foreign firms in India more deeply, and neither he nor the US would take action that might check or stop the advance of Walmart and Boeing” he said.
“Similarly, although some people in the BJP [Bharatiya Janata Party/Indian People’s Party] and the [Pakistan People’s Party], and even the [Pakistan Muslim League], might voice noisy protests, such a deal would be unlikely to affect movement toward greater India-Pakistan trade, which is what Modi and Nawaz Sharif wish, above almost all else, in their country’s relations.”

Email: uansari@defensenews.com.

 

[SrNair]

Mi has flight celing problem and we cant use that in Kargil war.That is why we develop LCH.
Any way good going.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Russia would do nothing detrimental to India

Ruling out any change in its policy, Russia on Wednesday said it is in talks with Pakistan for supply of Mi 35 defence helicopters but said it would do nothing “detrimental” to the strategic relationship with India.

Moscow’s Ambassador here Alexander M Kadakin said that Russia had never imposed any arms embargo on Pakistan and that its technical and military cooperation with the country dates back to 1960s.

“We have not changed any policy, and contrary to press reports there has not been any embargo on Pakistan. We supplied to arms in Pakistan since early 1960s. This was sheer case of mis-reporting and over-reacting,” he said.

He was reacting to reports from Moscow that Russia has lifted an arms embargo on Pakistan and the two countries were in talks over supply of Mi35 helicopters.

Russia has not supplied any arms to Pakistan but there have only been “initial” talks to supply Mi 35 helicopters, he said.

“We have not supplied, lately, any arms to Pakistan. Its not the arms, but its Mi 17 civilian aircraft. We are at the very initial stage of talks on Mi 35, but that is exclusively for anti-terrorist and anti-narcotics operation.

“There can be a wish list from Pakistan, but we have not reacted to that. It is a matter of egotiations,” Kadakin said.

The envoy said that Russia saw supplying Mi35 helicopters as its contribution to the anti-terrorist and anti-narcotics endeavour.

“Russia, as a member of international coalition, treats is as a contribution to Pakistan’s participation in anti-drugs and anti- terrorist operation.”

He added that Russia was with India in its fight against terror and shall do nothing that will prove detrimental to the “deep and strategic” relationship with India.

“We shall never do anything, and it has been stated time and again by the highest level, which is detrimental to deep and strategic relationship with India. With India, we are its side of anti-terror campaign.

“Since there are no supplies (of arms) then how can they affect anything? One should understand that it is not that somebody is supplying to Pakistan. Nothing was done, nothing is being done and nothing will be done that will be detrimental to the deep relationship with Pakistan,” the ambassador said.

Russia would do nothing detrimental to India | The Indian Express


Interesting Points:
A) PAK asked choppers for Anti terrorist operation
B) never was Arms embargo
C) Talk at very Initial State
D) Out way Mis information campaign like Arms Embargo , Russia decided to give etc.

 

[NEPALESE GURKHA]

What is the status of Indian attack helicopter

 

[Pakistanisage]

Great News. We could use these babies against Talibunees Scum......

 

[Pandora]

Russia would do nothing detrimental to India

Ruling out any change in its policy, Russia on Wednesday said it is in talks with Pakistan for supply of Mi 35 defence helicopters but said it would do nothing “detrimental” to the strategic relationship with India.

Moscow’s Ambassador here Alexander M Kadakin said that Russia had never imposed any arms embargo on Pakistan and that its technical and military cooperation with the country dates back to 1960s.

“We have not changed any policy, and contrary to press reports there has not been any embargo on Pakistan. We supplied to arms in Pakistan since early 1960s. This was sheer case of mis-reporting and over-reacting,” he said.

He was reacting to reports from Moscow that Russia has lifted an arms embargo on Pakistan and the two countries were in talks over supply of Mi35 helicopters.

Russia has not supplied any arms to Pakistan but there have only been “initial” talks to supply Mi 35 helicopters, he said.

“We have not supplied, lately, any arms to Pakistan. Its not the arms, but its Mi 17 civilian aircraft. We are at the very initial stage of talks on Mi 35, but that is exclusively for anti-terrorist and anti-narcotics operation.

“There can be a wish list from Pakistan, but we have not reacted to that. It is a matter of egotiations,” Kadakin said.

The envoy said that Russia saw supplying Mi35 helicopters as its contribution to the anti-terrorist and anti-narcotics endeavour.

“Russia, as a member of international coalition, treats is as a contribution to Pakistan’s participation in anti-drugs and anti- terrorist operation.”

He added that Russia was with India in its fight against terror and shall do nothing that will prove detrimental to the “deep and strategic” relationship with India.

“We shall never do anything, and it has been stated time and again by the highest level, which is detrimental to deep and strategic relationship with India. With India, we are its side of anti-terror campaign.

“Since there are no supplies (of arms) then how can they affect anything? One should understand that it is not that somebody is supplying to Pakistan. Nothing was done, nothing is being done and nothing will be done that will be detrimental to the deep relationship with Pakistan,” the ambassador said.

Russia would do nothing detrimental to India | The Indian Express


Interesting Points:
A) PAK asked choppers for Anti terrorist operation
B) never was Arms embargo
C) Talk at very Initial State
D) Out way Mis information campaign like Arms Embargo , Russia decided to give etc.

Considering how wet their pants are in intial talks i wouldnt be too much excited as they probably need a little push from indians and the deal is off. I have a hunch that these talks will be a gigantic waste of time and we going back again to either T129 or Cobras.

 

[waz]

The Atak will be the default attack helicopter of the Pakistani Army.

The MI-35 or Mi-28 will be used to shore up numbers and involved in CAS against insurgents on the border.

 

[fatman17]

Russia
Russian Arms Supplies to Pakistan Not Aimed Against Third Countries - Moscow

Building of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs
© RIA Novosti. Maksim Blinov
11:37 04/06/2014
Tags: arms export, Russian Foreign Ministry, Pakistan, Russia

MOSCOW, June 4 (RIA Novosti) — Russian arms supplies to Pakistan are not aimed against third countries, Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement Wednesday.

"We are indeed in talks with our Pakistani partners about Russian assistance in strengthening counterterrorist and anti-drug potential of Islamabad, including through the delivery of a batch of Mi-35 helicopters.

Helicopters have previously been delivered to Pakistan, while the overall military-technical cooperation with this country dates back to 1960s," said in the statement.

"Russian-Pakistani collaboration in this area does not designate a change in the current military strategic balance in the region and is not directed against third countries," it said.

Head of Russian Rostec Corporation, a high-tech industrial producer and exporter, Sergei Chemezov, said earlier that Russia had decided to lift the embargo on arms and machinery deliveries to Pakistan.

A source at Pakistan’s foreign ministry told RIA Novosti that Russia never officially adhered to the embargo. Rostec later said no embargo had ever been in place.

Defectees from Afghanistan after soviet withdrawl. Never officially commissiomed because of lack of maintenance and support.
A senior can guide properly

2 are parked in derelict condition at quetta.