What's new

Russia Develops Own THAAD-like, GMD-like Missile Defense Systems

But how do u know they are not??
Till a war happens no one will really know but u have to invest in defence, never the less.

If pakistan had money,they would be doing the same thing.

Can you find one Indian military expert that can say with confidence that India is safer from nuclear destruction with ABM than it was without them? ABM in India's case is even less effective than USA vs Russia because of the short distance between its rivals.
 
History is full of nations investing billions in systems that are no good.



.

And yet Russia is complaining about this American system that is what you deemed as no good or useless. Shrugs*
 
Of course, why not? You know Russia has developed their own ABM system even before this article was put out? Yes it was established during the Cold War. Russia will always developed new improved systems. No different than developing next generation of cruise missiles to counter advanced SAM systems. MAD doctrine still applies but some countries may decide to do something really stupid and just launch missiles. So in this case we still lose cities and we nuke back.
No, there was understand between US and USSR. That they will both let each other have knives at each others throats to ensure none does anything stupid. But US thinking that they are better than this has lead to imbalance. Russia was developing new systems but not ones at delivering nuclear payloads. In fact if anything there was a drastic reduction in number of MIRV's per missile.

I would believe your saying that ABM is meant to protect against some crazy countries (iran, Nkorea) if USA wasn't slowly encircling Russia with ABM systems. The world isn't stupid.

And yet Russia is complaining about this American system that is what you deemed as no good or useless. Shrugs*

Of course they are complaining. Any sane nation will react appropriately to this possible imbalance regardless of the effectiveness of ABM.
 
america is making the world more and more dangerous, if every one has missile shields and relies on it, this means more nuclear powered countries are willing to go to war and rely on their technology.
So if technology fails bye bye new york, bye bye london and paris or tokio.

Tsar_Bomba_Paris.png


do you want rely on computers or your human brain ?


ABM would not make Nuclear Armed countries go to war without rhyme and reason. The only differences that it would bring to decision matrix is that it would abolish the " No war at all cost" quagmire, and would motivate countries to fight war in order to finish off their adversary.

Concept of limited war under ABM shield would be thing of past.
 
No, there was understand between US and USSR. That they will both let each other have knives at each others throats to ensure none does anything stupid. But US thinking that they are better than this has lead to imbalance. Russia was developing new systems but not ones at delivering nuclear payloads. In fact if anything there was a drastic reduction in number of MIRV's per missile.

I would believe your saying that ABM is meant to protect against some crazy countries (iran, Nkorea) if USA wasn't slowly encircling Russia with ABM systems. The world isn't stupid.



Of course they are complaining. Any sane nation will react appropriately to this possible imbalance regardless of the effectiveness of ABM.

Yes there was an understanding with knives at each others' throats. Yet Russia has their own ABM system long before the U.S. has started developing THAAD. Russia claims their new ballistic missiles can punch throught our ABM system, then there is nothing to worry about. Don't need to increase the payload when all the warheads can dodge them easily as Russia claims.

Since we have interests around the world, of course the ABM system would be established around the world since we have allies and territories to protect. For example, China complained about the new radar that was to counter North Korea, but China deems it as a threat to their own missiles. Or Russia complaining about our Aegis ships nearby even in international waters.
China criticises U.S. missile defense radar in Japan | Asia-Pasific | Worldbulletin News
The United States is damaging stability in the Asia-Pacific region by positioning a missile defence radar in Japan, China said on Thursday.

Japan, an ally of the United States, has voiced growing anxiety over China's more assertive posture in the East China Sea, where the neighbours are locked in a dispute over control of a group of uninhabited islets.

North Korea has carried out a series of missile tests this year, including two medium-range missiles capable of hitting Japan. Pyongyang has also threatened another nuclear test.

Japan's defence ministry has said an X-Band radar system was delivered on Tuesday to the U.S. military's communication facility in Kyoto in the western part of the country. It is scheduled to be fully operational by the end of the year.

"Neighboring countries pushing forward the deployment of anti-missile systems in the Asia-Pacific and seeking unilateral security is not beneficial to strategic stability and mutual trust in the region," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a regular briefing.

"It is not beneficial to peace and stability in Northeast Asia."

Countries should not use "excuses to harm the security interests of other countries," Hua added, describing the situation as "deeply concerning".

China has racheted up military spending in recent years, putting in place new submarines, surface ships and anti-ship ballistic missiles, which the U.S. sees as a counter to its military presence in the region.

U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has said two Navy destroyers equipped with missile defense systems would be deployed to Japan by 2017 in response to provocations from North Korea.

Russia Fumes Over U.S. Missile Defense Ship | CNS News

(CNSNews.com) – Three months after the United States deployed the first asset in its new European missile defense architecture – a guided missile cruiser equipped to track and destroy ballistic missiles in flight – Russia is bristling at the ship’s presence in its neighborhood.

The USS Monterey, which deployed to Europe in early March, this week is reported to be taking part in annual multi-country exercises in the Black Sea, co-hosted by the U.S. and Ukraine.

In a strongly worded statement issued Sunday, the Russian foreign ministry deplored its presence, highlighting the Kremlin’s enduring concerns that the missile defense shield threatens its security by weakening the Russian nuclear deterrent.

Washington has long insisted that the system is designed to protect against potential missile attack from the Middle East, principally Iran, pointing out that it will be dwarfed by – and therefore pose to threat to – the Russian nuclear arsenal.

The Bush administration initially planned a ballistic missile defense (BMD) umbrella to defend its allies from the threat of long-range Iranian missiles, with facilities in Poland and the Czech Republic. Russia resisted.

Following a lengthy review, President Obama announced in 2009 an alternative “phased adaptive approach” designed to protect first southeastern Europe, and eventually all of the continent, against short- and medium-range missiles.
 
Can you find one Indian military expert that can say with confidence that India is safer from nuclear destruction with ABM than it was without them? ABM in India's case is even less effective than USA vs Russia because of the short distance between its rivals.

Pakistan does not have marv's and mirv's like usa and russia.
Shaheens and ghauris can be tackled far more easily than tridents,bulavas and dong fengs.
 
Pakistan does not have marv's and mirv's like usa and russia.
Shaheens and ghauris can be tackled far more easily than tridents,bulavas and dong fengs.

Yes, but reaction time will be too short to do anything...
 
Yes, but reaction time will be too short to do anything...

If tensions are really high, then its possible to maintain vigilance and be prepared for any missile launches and counter them with ABM or surface to air missiles. Israel has shown that during the conflict with the Palestinians recently.
They are practically next to each other.
 
I think ABM is useless and kind of ruins the point of missile deterrence. Your enemy simply makes better missiles so if the war does happen, it will be a lot worse than it otherwise would have been.

Actually No.

People said same thing about SAM's in 1960's but today SAM's have progressed to such a degree that advanced SAM's have close to 100% kill rate.


If you think that Enemy would just make better missiles. you are wrong.Laws of Physics are on the side of ABM systems.

See, Whenever an advancement is made in warhead, it carries a weight penalty. If you make maneuverable warheads, you would have to provide some fuel onboard that warhead or a computer system with fins. Both of these increases weight and size of warheads. Also maneuverability is inversely proportional to velocity. At hypersonic velocities, a small deflection of 1 minute would take warhead off course by 100's of Kms and it would require precise actuary controls and large amount of force to bring it back oncourse.

If you deploy countermeasures like Chaff,balloons and dummy warheads , then again weight penalty + even 5 years back algorithms that could separate warhead that is likely to hit target from dummies have been written and radars which could see through chaff have been developed. The idea of enclosing warhead inside a balloon is also a dud as balloons with warhead enclosed inside follow a different trajectory.

On Top of this, a missile has to carry all these contraptions into outer space and bring them back. This require much more energy than an ABM missile which has to go up 40-50 Km at max into space. A ABM missile could carry more sophisticated interceptors than a missile could carry warheads. Ascendancy of ABM systems over missiles is only a matter of time.

You could see this in state of missile defence 10 years ago and today.
 
Yes, but reaction time will be too short to do anything...

Thats what u think.
The radar for indian BMD has a current range of 800 km and will be updated to 1500 km very soon.

"
  • Target acquisition and fire control radar for the BMD system.
  • Can Guide Exo-atmospheric interceptor missile PAD to hit its target in space at an altitude over 80 km from earth.
  • The Swordfish LRTR currently has a range of 600 km (370 mi)-800 km (500 mi) km range and can spot objects as small as a cricket ball (3-inches in diameter), which the DRDO is in the process of upgrading it to 1,500 km"

Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On tests

1)On 6 March 2009 DRDO carried out a second successful test of the PAD interceptor missile. The target used was ship launched Dhanush missile which followed the trajectory of a missile with range of a 1,500 km (930 mi). The target was tracked by Swordfish (LRTR) radar and destroyed by the PAD at 75 km (47 mi) altitude.

2)On 6 March 2011 DRDO successfully test-fired interceptor missile from Advanced Air Defence (AAD) which destroyed a 'hostile' target ballistic missile, a modified Prithvi, at an altitude of 16 km over the Bay of Bengal. Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile positioned at Wheeler Island, about 70 km across sea from Chandipur, received signals from tracking radars installed along the coastline and travelled through the sky at a speed of 4.5 Mach to destroy it

3)On 6 December 2007, AAD successfully intercepted a modified Prithvi-II missile acting as an incoming ballistic missile enemy target. The endo-atmospheric interception was carried out at an altitude of 15 km (9.3 mi). The interceptor and all the elements performed in a copy book fashion validating the endo-atmospheric layer of the defence system. The launch was also shown through a video link at a control room of DRDO Bhawan,at Delhi.

4)multiple other tests

On 15 March 2010, AAD interceptor missile test from the Odisha coast on Monday was aborted, as the target missile deviated from its path and plunged into the sea. The AAD missile was to intercept the target at an altitude of 15 to 20 km over the sea. The target, a Prithvi missile, fired at 10:02 am from a mobile launcher from the Integrated Test Range Complex-3 at Chandipur-on-Sea, 15 km from here, deviated from its trajectory after travelling about 11 km and fell into the sea.

On 26 July 2010, AAD was successfully test-fired from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Wheeler Island off the Odisha's east coast.[23]

On 6 March 2011, India launched its indigenously developed interceptor missile from the Odisha coast. India successfully test-fired its interceptor missile which destroyed a 'hostile' target ballistic missile, a modified Prithvi, at an altitude of 16 km over the Bay of Bengal. the interceptor, Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile positioned at Wheeler Island, about 70 km across sea from Chandipur, received signals from tracking radars installed along the coastline and travelled through the sky at a speed of 4.5 Mach to destroy it. As the trial was aimed at achieving the desired result with precision, the interceptor missile had its own mobile launcher, secure data link for interception, independent tracking and homing capabilities and sophisticated radars. "It was a fantastic launch. The trial, conducted from two launch sites of ITR off Orissa coast for developing a full fledged multi-layer Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system, was fully successful," he said.[24]

On 10 February 2012, AAD was again successfully test-fired from Wheeler Island off the state coast near Dhamra in Bhadrak district, about 170 km from Bhubaneswar.[25]

On 23 November 2012, India again successfully testfired its home-made supersonic Advanced Air Defence (AAD) interceptor missile from a defence base off the coast of the eastern state of Odisha. "The test-firing was part of India's efforts to create a missile defence shield against incoming enemy missiles. The AAD interceptor missile, which was fired from the Wheeler Island off the Odishan coast, successfully destroyed mid-air an incoming ballistic missile launched from the Integrated Test Range in Chandipur, about 70 km from the Wheeler Island."[26]




So unless pakistan makes marv's and mirv's to complicate the situation we have pretty much a good defence against shaheen and ghauri.
 
Yes there was an understanding with knives at each others' throats. Yet Russia has their own ABM system long before the U.S. has started developing THAAD. Russia claims their new ballistic missiles can punch throught our ABM system, then there is nothing to worry about. Don't need to increase the payload when all the warheads can dodge them easily as Russia claims.

It doesn't matter who started development first. Fact remains that US and USSR signed the anti-ballistic missile treaty in 70's. That understanding should have been kept. And the treaty did well for 30 years! Until Bush administration withdrew in 2002.

Since we have interests around the world, of course the ABM system would be established around the world since we have allies and territories to protect. For example, China complained about the new radar that was to counter North Korea, but China deems it as a threat to their own missiles. Or Russia complaining about our Aegis ships nearby even in international waters.

Since US is such a peace loving nation, you can point a finger anywhere in the world while blindfolded, and there is a very high chance you will end up in a place where US has some rival it needs to "defend" against. With regards to China, US should have come up with a mutual plan of ABM defence operated by both countries. Instead it ended up scaring the Chinese. Now Chinese are developing new weapons that travel at Mach 10 speed. Such short reaction times are not good in tense situations and can lead to a misunderstanding and nuclear exchange. Can you honestly say that either US or China is in a better position when weapons like these become deployed? I stick to my statement that nuclear equilibrium must never be disturbed.

If tensions are really high, then its possible to maintain vigilance and be prepared for any missile launches and counter them with ABM or surface to air missiles. Israel has shown that during the conflict with the Palestinians recently.
They are practically next to each othe

Iron dome is meant to counter unguided rockets, not ballistic missiles. And since Gaza strip is basically a small stretch of land its easy to perform surveillance. Israel literally has eyes from the sky on all the territory. They know it the exact moment the rocket takes off.
 
Can you find one Indian military expert that can say with confidence that India is safer from nuclear destruction with ABM than it was without them? ABM in India's case is even less effective than USA vs Russia because of the short distance between its rivals.


India only has basic ABM capability today because of not having required number of batteries and having technological limitation of range of missiles it could intercept.

But Short distance or i would say lack of strategic depth of Pakistan is an advantageous for India than otherwise. Indian radars could cover whole of Pakistan thus level of warning that India would have in case of missile launch by Pakistan is more than it would have in case of China.

Also shorter range means that India could intercept missiles in their boost Phase also, if it could develop technology to do so. A LASER based ABM or a Rail Gun Based ABM would be useless in US vs Russia but would be useful in case of INDO-PAK war.
 
India only has basic ABM capability today because of not having required number of batteries and having technological limitation of range of missiles it could intercept.

But Short distance or i would say lack of strategic depth of Pakistan is an advantageous for India than otherwise. Indian radars could cover whole of Pakistan thus level of warning that India would have in case of missile launch by Pakistan is more than it would have in case of China.

Also shorter range means that India could intercept missiles in their boost Phase also, if it could develop technology to do so. A LASER based ABM or a Rail Gun Based ABM would be useless in US vs Russia but would be useful in case of INDO-PAK war.

Don't forget we can launch infra red satellites too in future,,we already have 2 SAR military satellites.
 
Thats what u think.
The radar for indian BMD has a current range of 800 km and will be updated to 1500 km very soon.

"
  • Target acquisition and fire control radar for the BMD system.
  • Can Guide Exo-atmospheric interceptor missile PAD to hit its target in space at an altitude over 80 km from earth.
  • The Swordfish LRTR currently has a range of 600 km (370 mi)-800 km (500 mi) km range and can spot objects as small as a cricket ball (3-inches in diameter), which the DRDO is in the process of upgrading it to 1,500 km"

Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On tests

1)On 6 March 2009 DRDO carried out a second successful test of the PAD interceptor missile. The target used was ship launched Dhanush missile which followed the trajectory of a missile with range of a 1,500 km (930 mi). The target was tracked by Swordfish (LRTR) radar and destroyed by the PAD at 75 km (47 mi) altitude.

2)On 6 March 2011 DRDO successfully test-fired interceptor missile from Advanced Air Defence (AAD) which destroyed a 'hostile' target ballistic missile, a modified Prithvi, at an altitude of 16 km over the Bay of Bengal. Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile positioned at Wheeler Island, about 70 km across sea from Chandipur, received signals from tracking radars installed along the coastline and travelled through the sky at a speed of 4.5 Mach to destroy it

3)On 6 December 2007, AAD successfully intercepted a modified Prithvi-II missile acting as an incoming ballistic missile enemy target. The endo-atmospheric interception was carried out at an altitude of 15 km (9.3 mi). The interceptor and all the elements performed in a copy book fashion validating the endo-atmospheric layer of the defence system. The launch was also shown through a video link at a control room of DRDO Bhawan,at Delhi.

4)multiple other tests

On 15 March 2010, AAD interceptor missile test from the Odisha coast on Monday was aborted, as the target missile deviated from its path and plunged into the sea. The AAD missile was to intercept the target at an altitude of 15 to 20 km over the sea. The target, a Prithvi missile, fired at 10:02 am from a mobile launcher from the Integrated Test Range Complex-3 at Chandipur-on-Sea, 15 km from here, deviated from its trajectory after travelling about 11 km and fell into the sea.

On 26 July 2010, AAD was successfully test-fired from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Wheeler Island off the Odisha's east coast.[23]

On 6 March 2011, India launched its indigenously developed interceptor missile from the Odisha coast. India successfully test-fired its interceptor missile which destroyed a 'hostile' target ballistic missile, a modified Prithvi, at an altitude of 16 km over the Bay of Bengal. the interceptor, Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile positioned at Wheeler Island, about 70 km across sea from Chandipur, received signals from tracking radars installed along the coastline and travelled through the sky at a speed of 4.5 Mach to destroy it. As the trial was aimed at achieving the desired result with precision, the interceptor missile had its own mobile launcher, secure data link for interception, independent tracking and homing capabilities and sophisticated radars. "It was a fantastic launch. The trial, conducted from two launch sites of ITR off Orissa coast for developing a full fledged multi-layer Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system, was fully successful," he said.[24]

On 10 February 2012, AAD was again successfully test-fired from Wheeler Island off the state coast near Dhamra in Bhadrak district, about 170 km from Bhubaneswar.[25]

On 23 November 2012, India again successfully testfired its home-made supersonic Advanced Air Defence (AAD) interceptor missile from a defence base off the coast of the eastern state of Odisha. "The test-firing was part of India's efforts to create a missile defence shield against incoming enemy missiles. The AAD interceptor missile, which was fired from the Wheeler Island off the Odishan coast, successfully destroyed mid-air an incoming ballistic missile launched from the Integrated Test Range in Chandipur, about 70 km from the Wheeler Island."[26]




So unless pakistan makes marv's and mirv's to complicate the situation we have pretty much a good defence against shaheen and ghauri.


+ Akash is Nuclear capable. If we run out of ABM batteries, we could simple put Tactical Nuke on Akash and start foring them at incoming missiles.

Much like Nike system of US and A-35/135 of Russia.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom