Russia brands Quran Translation by Elmir Kuliev as extremist

[somebozo]

Russia has suffered terribly at the hands of Islam, they are the first to take action.
May be soon we will see Russian version of Islam.

 

[Kompromat]

Russia has suffered terribly at the hands of Islam, they are the first to take action.
May be soon we will see Russian version of Islam.

What about the C.Asian Gulag's, colonization of the Muslim states by the Czars,Russian empire and the communist federation, what about the C.Asian genocide and ethnic cleansing of C.Asian Muslims, continued occupation of Chechnya,Ingushetia and Daghistan? - You just chose overlook all of that history without its proper geopolitical context to lash out an ignorant rant? _ It was your absolute best !

 

[Durrak]

If you referring to this Ayah, it is better to first see what comes before it and what follows it. The previous Ayah's all discuss Marriage and conduct in marriage apart.

The Surah is not entirely about war, it starts with discussing it but also brings in other subjects. The same is with Many long surah's in the Quran. Moreover, the word Ahzab literally means collection of people. These may be those that oppose the Prophet or those that are part of his following. Hence, the content of this Surah is directed upon life in the collective. How they are to behave in conflict with a party, with their wives etc.

The solution if such discrepancies arise is to go to the root of the word where there is doubt.

No , you're not getting my point .... I'll send you a refference then we'll talk about it sir ...

 

[Pakistani E]

So mention word qadyani is major sin or some sort of paap? when i said eveyone whom i dont like is qadyani lol

He can mention mirza and his aqeedat for his reforms but we cannot even use word qadyani..dont be such senstive ..i am not going to pass any fatwa on you or others

Just wonder how he know who is qayani here as he quoted some member names

It is no sin brother. I am just asking because I have seen that whenever Pakistanis don't like someone they immediately label them qadiani. I have yet to figure out why that is.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

It is no sin brother. I am just asking because I have seen that whenever Pakistanis don't like someone they immediately label them qadiani. I have yet to figure out why that is.

I cannot speak on behalf of every Pakistani but it has nothing to do with like or dislike here. I was not agree with views of topic starter here but i never said i don't like him. sure i believe that certain beliefs of people are wrong but then i believe people should have freedom to keep these beliefs even if i consider them wrong

 

[Durrak]

If you referring to this Ayah, it is better to first see what comes before it and what follows it. The previous Ayah's all discuss Marriage and conduct in marriage apart.

The Surah is not entirely about war, it starts with discussing it but also brings in other subjects. The same is with Many long surah's in the Quran. Moreover, the word Ahzab literally means collection of people. These may be those that oppose the Prophet or those that are part of his following. Hence, the content of this Surah is directed upon life in the collective. How they are to behave in conflict with a party, with their wives etc.

The solution if such discrepancies arise is to go to the root of the word where there is doubt.

The ayah was discussed by the author referring to some sort of riddle in it .. What is the resemblance between Jung-e-Ahzab and Hijab ??

 

[SQ8]

The ayah was discussed by the author referring to some sort of riddle in it .. What is the resemblance between Jung-e-Ahzab and Hijab ??

I am not sure unless I read what the author has written. There is little riddle in terms of what the Ayat means.

 

[Sugarcane]

Your approach is incorrect. Assuming that it impossible to understand the Quran on its own. You will understand it on its own. Most by reading it again and again and again. But, will you understand it fully on the basis of say .. Pickthall's translation which is essentially his interpretation of meanings? Or would you rather discover those yourself through understanding of the Arabic of the Quran by understanding the metaphors of the time and so on?

I don’t think I (or even anybody else except Prophet) is/will be ever able to understand it Quran fully - Even nobody have convincing answer of what's the meaning of "Alif. Lam. Mim", but for advice sure If someone strive, he/she will be able to get & that’s not difficult as per words of God.

Indeed We have made the Qur‘an easy for seeking advice. So, is there one to heed to the advice? 054:017-022-032-040

And every important word which can have multiple meanings and verse have implication on personal/social life is repeated for sure on other place where the meanings clear and you will be amazed that God haven't included stories to teach us history or make us scare of His wrath/reward only it has an other important purpose as well, which is to decode complexities. So it’s not difficult, all its required is read again & again and try to understand. One can look other translations if there is any doubt. – At the end every individual is responsible for his/her deeds not others.

The problem you complain on does not lie with the clerics and priests, it lies with common Muslims. Why did you let them have all the authority on it? Should you not know enough of the material to be able to judge whether you are being misled by a subject expect?

The common notion that for understanding Quran, you must know relevant Hadith’s, time & reason of revelation of verses is enough to discourage people to even give it a try to understand by themselves so they prefer to leave it on others – Yes there are some verses which is understood more correctly when you know the reason, on other hand there are verses which even after consulting all Hadiths, Tafseers etc. are not understandable, IMHO people must learn what's written in Quran first - at least important matters which have social implication and then go to consult any other material/person – so they can have little bit of judgment about what’s being told to them, either it's as per Islam or not.

At the same time, there were false prophets as well and people did fall for them too(Musalima proclaimed himself a Prophet during the time of Prophet Mohammad).. why? Because their understanding of the subject was not enough, and they fell for a lie.

It’s God who guides, There were scores of people who knew Arabic very well and Prophet himself was their to explain but they still didn't reverted, Mirza was great scholar but he still got astray.

After all, if a mechanic swindles you by charging you for a blown gasket while all you had was an incorrectly screwed cap .. whose fault is it?

That’s what I am saying, if one don’t know even ABC of Quran than how he/she will be able to understand that someone is playing with him/her

Even if you stick to only a basic understanding of the Quran.. what is to say that the very basic understanding that you have is incorrect based on an incorrect translation? After all, the Church taught everybody that the earth is flat before Galileo proved it was not.. and now he is remembered for being right.

Even for Hadiths i have to rely on translation, So - one can consult multiple translations to get understanding. As I already explained above, for your personal & social life there is no as such difficulty where you will not be able get guidance or yard stick to judge what’s being told. It’s lack of knowledge of Quran we are in trouble, where self-appointed authorities have taken the charge to act on behalf of God and decide faith & fate of people by twisting the history & Hadiths, its they who decide your Prayer, Fast, Abolition is accepted or not.

Regarding the translation of verses of scientific significance, I don’t believe any religious scholar can interpret them accurately, their translations will keeping changing with new discoveries because what they do is they try to justify the Quran by finding different roots/meanings of word to conclude desired result instead of trying to do scientific research to discover the mystery. Do you believe in Muslim scholars’ translation of earth being Egg shaped? Is the earth really egg shaped? And what about following verse -

One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them. (008-047)

Which words meaning you will change to make it compatible to today's science? And this is not the only thing there are many other examples - IMHO these are the things which God will reveal Himself with passage of time to keep reminding people about the book which He called "Miracle".

My point here is, this is not a study of the plot themes or sociology of the Godfather series.. This is the code of your life, the method for your life, your beginning and salvation.. so why would you or any muslim be content with "that's all i want to know about it"?

It is that very complacency that has led everybody to this stage.

And my point is that we don’t have Prophet among us these days, Sunnah we have is in form of “Hadiths”, so either start reading Books of Hadiths and then go to Quran or Start from Quran and consult Hadith where ever necessary & further explanation is required – As both are in Arabic so you have to rely on translation for critical things you can consult multiple translations to start with and then go into detail of specific words which cause confusion. And doing this exercise for one book “Quran” is far easier than doing same for multiple books of “Hadiths” .

PS: I know this debate is like "Chicken & Egg" thing - i never reached to conclusion - May God shows us right path.

 

[Durrak]

I am not sure unless I read what the author has written. There is little riddle in terms of what the Ayat means.

I tried to find it but it is not present on any website ...

Kher It's Okay ..

 

[Durrak]

@LoveIcon everything is understandable but what is IMHO ... ??

 

[SQ8]

I don’t think I (or even anybody else except Prophet) is/will be ever able to understand it Quran fully - Even nobody have convincing answer of what's the meaning of "Alif. Lam. Mim", but for advice sure If someone strive, he/she will be able to get & that’s not difficult as per words of God.


And every important word which can have multiple meanings and verse have implication on personal/social life is repeated for sure on other place where the meanings clear and you will be amazed that God haven't included stories to teach us history or make us scare of His wrath/reward only it has an other important purpose as well, which is to decode complexities. So it’s not difficult, all its required is read again & again and try to understand. One can look other translations if there is any doubt. – At the end every individual is responsible for his/her deeds not others.


The common notion that for understanding Quran, you must know relevant Hadith’s, time & reason of revelation of verses is enough to discourage people to even give it a try to understand by themselves so they prefer to leave it on others – Yes there are some verses which is understood more correctly when you know the reason, on other hand there are verses which even after consulting all Hadiths, Tafseers etc. are not understandable, IMHO people must learn what's written in Quran first - at least important matters which have social implication and then go to consult any other material/person – so they can have little bit of judgment about what’s being told to them, either it's as per Islam or not.


It’s God who guides, There were scores of people who knew Arabic very well and Prophet himself was their to explain but they still didn't reverted, Mirza was great scholar but he still got astray.


That’s what I am saying, if one don’t know even ABC of Quran than how he/she will be able to understand that someone is playing with him/her



Even for Hadiths i have to rely on translation, So - one can consult multiple translations to get understanding. As I already explained above, for your personal & social life there is no as such difficulty where you will not be able get guidance or yard stick to judge what’s being told. It’s lack of knowledge of Quran we are in trouble, where self-appointed authorities have taken the charge to act on behalf of God and decide faith & fate of people by twisting the history & Hadiths, its they who decide your Prayer, Fast, Abolition is accepted or not.

Regarding the translation of verses of scientific significance, I don’t believe any religious scholar can interpret them accurately, their translations will keeping changing with new discoveries because what they do is they try to justify the Quran by finding different roots/meanings of word to conclude desired result instead of trying to do scientific research to discover the mystery. Do you believe in Muslim scholars’ translation of earth being Egg shaped? Is the earth really egg shaped? And what about following verse -

Which words meaning you will change to make it compatible to today's science? And this is not the only thing there are many other examples - IMHO these are the things which God will reveal Himself with passage of time to keep reminding people about the book which He called "Miracle".


And my point is that we don’t have Prophet among us these days, Sunnah we have is in form of “Hadiths”, so either start reading Books of Hadiths and then go to Quran or Start from Quran and consult Hadith where ever necessary & further explanation is required – As both are in Arabic so you have to rely on translation for critical things you can consult multiple translations to start with and then go into detail of specific words which cause confusion. And doing this exercise for one book “Quran” is far easier than doing same for multiple books of “Hadiths” .

PS: I know this debate is like "Chicken & Egg" thing - i never reached to conclusion - May God shows us right path.

Not really, its more about DNA. At the end, the thing returns to the Quran, and the Quran being the primary source of guidance. There is no one single understanding of the primary source of guidance simply due to the depth of subjects and views encapsulated in it. Essentially one has to understand the original arabic but then as many words in the Quran have multiple meanings, it falls to the conditions in which the Ayat was revealed to get the most correct one. However, that too is based upon study of Sunnah. In that case, common sense dictates that we should take the most commonly used meaning; but how sure are we that Lahu is used commonly the same way today as it was 1500 years ago? In that, yes.. God is the best guidance.

As for the scientific example.. I did not state it to be "scientific" but rather as an example to question the common authority on basis of proof. All things and additions must be proven by the Quran. As I stated earlier, to declare something Haram is to have inexplicable proof that it has declared so. So, how would you declare birth control Haram or Halal? Does the Quran have anything on it or in similar topics? and so on.
Eventually, then the ideals of Qiyas and Ijma come in. But these are opinions formed by people based on texts and hence decrees by them(such as those passed by certain "Scholars") are essentially human interpretations and fallible. Which is why the cardinal rule is that everything must be cross referenced with the Quran first. Anything that does not have a link or basis in the Quran...be it declaring something Halal or Haram... is suspect.

P.S
The earth may not be an egg... but it is infact an approximate Oblate Spheroid...and if an egg was laid on its side.. it would look like it.

Not that I suggest that those scholars were right.

 

[Sugarcane]

@LoveIcon everything is understandable but what is IMHO ... ??

In My Humble Opinion

 

[Durrak]

In My Humble Opinion

Had hoti hai ...

 

[Durrak]

Self deleted ..........

 

[Sugarcane]

Not really, its more about DNA. At the end, the thing returns to the Quran, and the Quran being the primary source of guidance. There is no one single understanding of the primary source of guidance simply due to the depth of subjects and views encapsulated in it. Essentially one has to understand the original arabic but then as many words in the Quran have multiple meanings, it falls to the conditions in which the Ayat was revealed to get the most correct one. However, that too is based upon study of Sunnah. In that case, common sense dictates that we should take the most commonly used meaning; but how sure are we that Lahu is used commonly the same way today as it was 1500 years ago? In that, yes.. God is the best guidance.

As for the scientific example.. I did not state it to be "scientific" but rather as an example to question the common authority on basis of proof. All things and additions must be proven by the Quran. As I stated earlier, to declare something Haram is to have inexplicable proof that it has declared so. So, how would you declare birth control Haram or Halal? Does the Quran have anything on it or in similar topics? and so on.
Eventually, then the ideals of Qiyas and Ijma come in. But these are opinions formed by people based on texts and hence decrees by them(such as those passed by certain "Scholars") are essentially human interpretations and fallible. Which is why the cardinal rule is that everything must be cross referenced with the Quran first. Anything that does not have a link or basis in the Quran...be it declaring something Halal or Haram... is suspect.

P.S
The earth may not be an egg... but it is infact an approximate Oblate Spheroid...and if an egg was laid on its side.. it would look like it.

Not that I suggest that those scholars were right.

Dear - As i told if the word is critical and you are not sure about the exact meaning of that time than look for usage of same word in other verses, you will know what was the meaning of that word in those days. For Halal & Haram clear guidelines are mentioned in Quran - and for family planing do you know Quran suggests 2 years of breast feeding?

The mothers shall give such to their offspring for two whole years, if the father desires to complete the term. But he shall bear the cost of their food and clothing on equitable terms. No soul shall have a burden laid on it greater than it can bear. No mother shall be Treated unfairly on account of her child. Nor father on account of his child, an heir shall be chargeable in the same way. If they both decide on weaning, by mutual consent, and after due consultation, there is no blame on them. If ye decide on a foster-mother for your offspring, there is no blame on you, provided ye pay (the mother) what ye offered, on equitable terms. But fear Allah and know that Allah sees well what ye do. (002-233)

And regarding contraception - guide line is there -
1) "And do not kill your children fearing poverty, We provide for them and you, killing them is a great wrong" (17:31)

2) And God didn't described the stages of embryonic development (32:7-9) to teach us biology or just tell that He knows, It tells us that soul is not breathed on first stage but at later stage when shape is formed. So, abortion before shape is formed is not equal to killing because there is no soul at that time

3) And this verse tell you that any permanent changes in natural way is satanic
"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest. 04-119

So, it's safe to assume that any contraception method which don't change body features permanently can be used, there is no sin for abortion done before shape is formed (not sure but that's 3 or 4 months) and after that if abortion is done because one fears that he/she will no be able to feed (or gender selection) than it's against teaching of Quran.

Had hoti hai ...

Kya howa? Kyon sir phoor rahi ho?