Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[Adux]

Topic discussed by Indian, conclusions made by Indians on WAB make a not bit of a difference.

Your same fellows in this very own thread said that 2 aircrafts that are in Pakistan are Chinese and will go back. I can certainly say that speculations and assumptions are one of the greatest achievements.

Now lets wait and see Chinese induct JF-17, just like you guys wanted to see JF-17 with RD-93 in Pakistan!

Freaking hilerious man!! Chinese will pay for 50% of the development cost, just so the JF-17 can enter in Pakistan Air Force.

I would think it is the Ws-10A in JF-17 not RD-93, Show me proof other than getting personal. I have given you were Russian Defense Minister Says Rd-93 wont be allowed. Show me where a person of his stature says otherwise. I am not going to sit and hear your personel diatribe, propaganda and revlations of the great JF-17 without any links or proofs

 

[Keysersoze]

I would think it is the Ws-10A in JF-17 not RD-93, Show me proof other than getting personal. I have given you were Russian Defense Minister Says Rd-93 wont be allowed. Show me where a person of his stature says otherwise. I am not going to sit and hear your personel diatribe, propaganda and revlations of the great JF-17 without any links or proofs

WS-13 will be the alternate engine...

However please bear in mind the following people Khalid Choudry (Head of PAC) and Eshan ul Haq (I am sure others can tell you of their rank and status) have said that there is no engine issue. (Kanwa article)

http://china-pla.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html

The WS-13 only started endurance testing early this year and will probably be in later models. However it is not gonna be ready until the end of the year (approx) I believe that Dragonking786 has the link somewhere.


JANE'S DEFENCE INDUSTRY - DECEMBER 01, 2006

Russia decides to supply Pakistan with fighter-aircraft engines

By Robert Karniol, Zuhai Air Show, China. Additional reporting by Ben Vogel, Janes.com Editor

PAKISTAN'S JF-17 light multirole fighter aircraft will be powered by Russian Klimov RD-93 engines - a substantial change in position for Russia which had previously resisted giving Pakistan access to the engine.

Directly contradicting an earlier Russian position, a senior Chinese aerospace official has for the first time publicly confirmed that the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 (FC-1) under development will be powered by the Russian engine. The new position was supported by Russian officials.

"Right now we are using the RD-93 [in prototypes] and it's Klimov who will do the series production [of the engine]. The engine will be exported to Pakistan," said Li Pei, development director at China's Chengdhu Aircraft Industry Group, which is leading the programme and also involved the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

Klimov mentioned that the FC-1, China's version of the jointly developed aircraft, is still undergoing "performance flight tests".

Russian diplomatic and industry officials had previously stated without qualification that the RD-93 powering the FC-1 will not be provided to Islamabad either directly or through re-export. Klimov had reiterated this position only a day before Li's statement.

Moscow is thought to have hesitated over any deal involving provision of its military products to Pakistan because of concerns centred on its long-standing defence relationship with rival India.

Klimov, in particular, is involved in a Russian bid to supply New Delhi with 126 MiG-29 fighters.

Li reversed this view of the JF-17 programme when questioned by Jane's at a press briefing organised by Klimov during the China Air Show 2006. He was flanked on the podium by senior officials from both Klimov and the Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport.

"If we don't sell [Pakistan the RD-93 engines] then someone else will. It's just a reality," said Klimov Director General Alexander Vatagin, in a follow-up comment. Oleg Novikov, a senior official with Rosoborenexport, reinforced the change in position over export of the engine.

"The process to [arrange the provision to Pakistan of the RD-93] is on-going," he explained.

"The export licence will be granted provided it doesn't contravene the export laws of Russia or China.

The Pakistan Air Force earlier this year told Jane's that it had received firm assurances from China that the RD-93 issue will not prove a problem despite repeated Russian statements to the contrary.



In conclusion ......You have several officials from several countries saying it is not a problem. If you are going to go through life taking everything a politician says as gospel, then you are going to be in for some disappointments in life.....

 

[A.Rahman]

Thank you keyser for this article; It has just disproved the above statements made by Adux and his alike s; btw are you scriber to Janes?

 

[PakSniper]

Here is the link confirming the endurance test its a Chinese site, which I translated (and confirmed by Sinodefense members as well):

http://www.cnwnews.com/Html/soceity/society_js/2006-12/31/11391432.html

Chinese website acknowledged the completion of the WS-13 engine and is under going flight trials for the verification of necessary parameters. I'll try to summarize the points that I have found about this engine.

1. It uses solid titanium alloy fan blades.
2. It has a digital authority control system.
3. It has a thrust of about 7.8.
4. It's length is about 4.14 metres.
5. It's diameter is about 1.02 metres.
6. Dry weight of the WS-13 is about 1,135 kg.
7. Maximum thrust of the engine is about is about 86.37 kn.
8. Cruise thrust is about 51.2 kn.
9. Needs an overhaul for every 810 hours.
10. Total life of the engine is about 2200 hours.

 

[Keysersoze]

Thank you keyser for this article; It has just disproved the above statements made by Adux and his alike s; btw are you scriber to Janes?

I Just get their newsletter! The full subscription is too expensive considering I don't work in the industry!

As an aside I read on SDF that there were problems with the engines 10-15 (RD-93)which China refused to accept. (from a reliable source there)

 

[Adux]

WS-13 will be the alternate engine...


http://china-pla.blogspot.com/2007_02_01_archive.html


In conclusion ......You have several officials from several countries saying it is not a problem. If you are going to go through life taking everything a politician says as gospel, then you are going to be in for some disappointments in life.....

You give me a Blogspot, Right. Ok, I am supposed to take that over Ivanov's statement, The defense Minister of one of the Most powerful countries in the world. He is not credible, but some unamed sources in some forum is. I gave a MSN article; Give me some worthwhile,news is from Feb 7th 2007 while yours is Dec 2006. Its already here in the thread.

 

[PakSniper]

You give me a Blogspot, Right. Ok, I am supposed to take that over Ivanov's statement, The defense Minister of one of the Most powerful countries in the world. He is not credible, but some unamed sources in some forum is. I gave a MSN article; Give me some worthwhile,news is from Feb 7th 2007 while yours is Dec 2006. Its already here in the thread.

If you have the decency to look, that blog collects all info's and articles related to J-10/JF-17, and he's quoting from KRD interview with the Chinese/Rrussian, so it's credible. That site is maintained by a SinoDefense senior member. Also, know if you search online you can find articles on their as well.

 

[Adux]

I am not buying propaganda

 

[PakSniper]

I am not buying propaganda

Then buy what ever you want but don't spill garbage without back things on other threads, that so called Chinese flying, etc. We have given you credible sources, if you went on the blog you will see that it has scans of defense magazines, but it's up to you to choose, denying hurts more than accepting.

Not only that the owner of the blog is a member of Janes and KRD, and he's the one that brakes news and posts full articles for PDF, PFF, DefenseTalk, etc. So I suggest you learn before talking.

 

[Adux]

Then buy what ever you want but don't spill garbage without back things on other threads, that so called Chinese flying, etc. We have given you credible sources, if you went on the blog you will see that it has scans of defense magazines, but it's up to you to choose, denying hurts more than accepting.

Not only that the owner of the blog is a member of Janes and KRD, and he's the one that brakes news and posts full articles for PDF, PFF, DefenseTalk, etc. So I suggest you learn before talking.

Kanwa is a HongKong based Defense Journal why should I take its word, You think they wont be biased, Janes article is of Dec 2006, I have given a link Feb 2007 of msn were Def Min of russia qouted saying Rd-93 wont be given, I rather take his word over some Defense Reporters. Cuz he is the one who signs the deal not the reporter. I have no problem accepting, I suggest you give me proof, of someone of his stature than some civil servant. I will be happy Russia exports RD-93, we can say bye-bye to the commie idiots in our parliment and thier anti-america stands

 

[Neo]

Guys,

I failed to detect smoke in the video posted in the other thread. What are the chances that we're flying the WS-13A equipped version?

 

[Adux]

Guys,

I failed to detect smoke in the video posted in the other thread. What are the chances that we're flying the WS-13A equipped version?

Good Chance, But didnt you say RD-93 is a Smokless engine,
But in the pictures, it might cuz of not employing high % of thrust,

 

[Neo]

Good Chance, But didnt you say RD-93 is a Smokless engine,
But in the pictures, it might cuz of not employing high % of thrust,

Yes, as far as I know the RD-93 should have no smoke problem, its been analysed by Highsea (engineer) and confirmd in WAB. However some Indians still claim that RD-93 has smoke issues (Mig-29K).
What are the chances that we got WS-13A already?

 

[Adux]

Neo,

I read HighSea's analysis, MiG-29K RD-33K Sea Wasp engine got higher thrust, which cant be compared to RD-93.
I think they have already finished off the WS-13A and is powering the JF-17, The reason being if you look at the context of what the Russian Def Min said.

 

[Neo]

We would have expected a word from Ivanov if the RD-93 was in Pakistan don't you think?

I'll check with Highsea if he's got some info.