Russia and China veto UN Resolution against Syria

[Hussein]

Well, I don't know if what I'm going to say will stop the massacre or not, but you can go there and fight along your Syrian brothers against the tyranny of Assad and hopefully get martyred too Inshallah. (I'm kidding around Hussein )

you mean like some Iranians there for Asad?
No way . I wish diplomatic issue but it seems desesperate for the people of Syria... they just been killed massively and nothing is going the good direction.

[/COLOR]US - Iran - Ideal - Syria - Libya Update - YouTube

an unkwown person puts a video on youtube and you consider her as expert?

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

The Syrian public shold not become the puppets of the US/NATO and fight against their own people or military....

Hopefully one day we can see a UNO army.. but we should not dream too much

 

[Oldman1]

what a gullible tool.
only russia and china are powerful enough to vote against it.
all other countries are too weak to vote against it and survive.
india and others are too weak to go against the west.
to go against the west, u must be powerful like russia and china.



there is no such thing as arab league, its an american league named 'arab'.

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------

US - Iran - Ideal - Syria - Libya Update - YouTube

Ooooooh you mean the "American League" that cut off oil to America itself back in the 70s right? I gotcha, you are so smart. A genius.

 

[Serpentine]

Ooooooh you mean the "American League" that cut off oil to America itself back in the 70s right? I gotcha, you are so smart. A genius.

Oldman you forgot something,Arab League today is not even close to what it was back in 70s.Do you think they can do that again?Of course not.
And one thing else is that at the 70s,the main reason the oil embargo could be reached was that Shah of Iran (which was the most powerful leader in Middle East and also closest US ally) supported the whole plan and actually Iran was the first country who started the embargo.That helped the Arabs to join the embargo.

 

[rcrmj]

Ooooooh you mean the "American League" that cut off oil to America itself back in the 70s right? I gotcha, you are so smart. A genius.

simpleton, America has strategic oil reserves up to one year of war-time consumption, and also most oil field were controlled by western companies, cut the supply and push up the price is ideal to make extra money and at meantime to hurt 'enemy's' economy

 

[Hussein]

simpleton, America has strategic oil reserves up to one year of war-time consumption, and also most oil field were controlled by western companies, cut the supply and push up the price is ideal to make extra money and at meantime to hurt 'enemy's' economy

total % of oil imported from Middle East by USA : around 20% (half of it from KSA)
they import more from Canada which was not invaded by USA
Venezuela + Mexico >> KSA
Here are the facts

 

[Oldman1]

simpleton, America has strategic oil reserves up to one year of war-time consumption, and also most oil field were controlled by western companies, cut the supply and push up the price is ideal to make extra money and at meantime to hurt 'enemy's' economy

A year? A YEAR? Where you get that kind of info? I figured it be a few months.

 

[gubbi]

This very stupid veto by Russia and a very ill informed "clueless" or nonchalant China will ultimately lead to a unilateral NATO action against Assad and his regime. In an ulterior motive of safeguarding their interests and sphere of influence, these two veto wielding countries will stand to lose the most if NATO unilaterally acts.

France has already started planning some sort of action in Syria with the help of the Arab League.

Bring down Assad!!

 

[Developereo]

Can only say that any country want to get more influence, but that some principle is best not to break, for example, direct interference and armed intervention.

Clearly, there is a whole spectrum of imperatives. Most people would agree that international intervention was justified in Nazi Germany or Rwanda, but not in localized rioting. There is no agreed-upon "red line".

 

[iajj]

This very stupid veto by Russia and a very ill informed "clueless" or nonchalant China will ultimately lead to a unilateral NATO action against Assad and his regime. In an ulterior motive of safeguarding their interests and sphere of influence, these two veto wielding countries will stand to lose the most if NATO unilaterally acts.

France has already started planning some sort of action in Syria with the help of the Arab League.

Bring down Assad!!

sure, nato can go in all on its own, but without a u.n. mandate, there is no legal prohibition against assad's forces' importing russian arms, and this may well make a nato illegal invasion quite costly. and just because european members of the nato voted for the draft it doesn't necessarily mean they have signed onto a nato military mission not sponsored by u.n. the french know well that there is a big difference between armed intervention in libya and armed intervention in syria.

 

[Developereo]

you now took such a reductive approach to issues that it again serves to obscure and not illuminate. of course russia and china wanted to control things around them - as they must. but they do so in methods completely different from anglo-saxons who lean on subversive tactics as the only means. in the double veto, i detect only a genuine respect of syrian sovereignty and a resentment of anglo-american subversion. in other words, the syrian vetoes aren't meant for syria but for a certain international system and principles, certain decorum and rules, that can ensure non-interference for all small nations. now i am not saying this system isn't prejudiced against the american way of diplomacy and isn't heavily in favor of russians and chinese in their desire to control smaller countries, but the alternative is not palatable at all to china and russia. so we vetoed the resolution.

I accept that Russia/China want to put the brakes on American/European dominance, hence the veto. My only point is that Russia/China should now use their influence with Assad to stop the killing and bring peace to Syria. It is easy to dismiss all opposition as "terrorists" -- and many Western allies do so as well -- but reality is usually more complicated. The bottom line is that, after protecting Assad from the West, Russia/China should now press him to resolve the situation peacefully and implement reforms.

 

[iajj]

Clearly, there is a whole spectrum of imperatives. Most people would agree that international intervention was justified in Nazi Germany or Rwanda, but not in localized rioting. There is no agreed-upon "red line".

and most people didn't intervene in nazi germany and rwanda (and people who later on did actually put an end to the two countries' violent agendas were definitely not liberal interventionists), so i doubt your theory holds any water

 

[iajj]

I accept that Russia/China want to put the brakes on American/European dominance, hence the veto. My only point is that Russia/China should now use their influence with Assad to stop the killing and bring peace to Syria. It is easy to dismiss all opposition as "terrorists" -- and many Western allies do so as well -- but reality is usually more complicated. The bottom line is that, after protecting Assad from the West, Russia/China should now press him to resolve the situation peacefully and implement reforms.

we didn't veto the resolution to protect assad and have no duty to talk to him either. and as i repeatedly said, russians and chinese seek influence over their small neighbors but this influence comes in a very different form from the kind of influence anglo-americans yield and as such we cannot influence assad to do anything.

and secondly, like the russian envoy said, now the rebels are also well armed and also going for the kill, and it is ridiculous to ask russians to ask assad to disarm himself. again, we aren't talking about syrian people here. the people was killed when the first drop of blood was drawn and what we are witnessing is opposing factions who have lost the will to share the same political body with each other. no other nation in the world is entitled to dictating to the syrians how they are going to refashion themselves as a people and how they are going to emerge from this as a reconstituted people

and i cannot stress this enough: yes, china vetoed this thing out of strategic calculations, but since our strategic calculations always favor less interference than anglo-americans' strategic calculations (subversion is everything to anglo-saxons' politics and policies) and always accord other nations more protection and freedom, the most cynical chinese vote is always going to be nobler than the most "altruistic" american vote.

 

[Developereo]

total % of oil imported from Middle East by USA : around 20% (half of it from KSA)
they import more from Canada which was not invaded by USA
Venezuela + Mexico >> KSA
Here are the facts

I think his (valid) point was that America is in the Middle East to control not America's oil supplies, but other countries' oil supplies.

 

[Americanpeacebomber]

I think his (valid) point was that America is in the Middle East to control not America's oil supplies, but other countries' oil supplies.

Manifest Destiny it's America Birth Right, overcoming a Great Depression and Fascism, and coming out as the sole superpower out of the Cold war.

 

[oceanx]

I accept that Russia/China want to put the brakes on American/European dominance, hence the veto. My only point is that Russia/China should now use their influence with Assad to stop the killing and bring peace to Syria. It is easy to dismiss all opposition as "terrorists" -- and many Western allies do so as well -- but reality is usually more complicated. The bottom line is that, after protecting Assad from the West, Russia/China should now press him to resolve the situation peacefully and implement reforms.

Have to agree with Mr. Thinktank!

Hey when were you "promote" to Thinktank? I almost gave up on PDF ... but the place seemed "salvageable" after all.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

This very stupid veto by Russia and a very ill informed "clueless" or nonchalant China will ultimately lead to a unilateral NATO action against Assad and his regime. In an ulterior motive of safeguarding their interests and sphere of influence, these two veto wielding countries will stand to lose the most if NATO unilaterally acts.

France has already started planning some sort of action in Syria with the help of the Arab League.

Bring down Assad!!

You are a smart idiot. You must think "Z French" under Sarko is the same braves as the "Franks" of yore under Charlemagne. I wager with my non-existent reputation here on PDF that the froggies will do no such thing.