Rumors: Pakistan to acquire five C-130J Super Hercules

[WebMaster]

Added rumors to the title until it happens. Once we have a credible source we can edit it, until then lets keep it this way.

We don't want to be labeled fake news yet it allows the discussions to occur.

 

[mingle]

Added rumors to the title until it happens. Once we have a credible source we can edit it, until then lets keep it this way.

We don't want to be labeled fake news yet it allows the discussions to occur.

For used one you don't need DOD certificate @airomerix and @Khafee are correct on used one all we need no objection certificate by SOS will come under EDA stock.

 

[Imran Khan]

for me this news is like dream of devil will go paradise

 

[FuturePAF]

You’re right, the J-series claim was previously made. The F-16 claim was made almost a year ago. Something is not adding people. Members are starved of good news and I think this is creating needless excitement. Expectations should be moderated.

Quite interestingly, According to Indian media during last year’s meeting between India and the US, the Indian said brought concerns against a proposed F-16 sale to Pakistan


A top-level Indian delegation headed by Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra reached Washington on Thursday and is expected to discuss military relations between the two countries. India is expected to raise objection over the proposed sale and assistance to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16 fighter aircraft fleet.

The US maybe reconsidering how much it actually listens to India after it recently cancelled the NASAM deal and after all the years of MRCA song and dance has decided to commit to its own LCA, without any firm orders for the F-16 or F-18. Which maybe why it could be more open to a sale of equipment to Pakistan. Some paid by Pakistan and some funded under the CSF. CSF money can still go into the congressional districts of Trump’s Republican allies like Lindsey Graham and the F-16 plant in South Carolina. It maybe a way to increase defense spending for US companies in an election year and during the coronavirus induced potential future budget limitations.

A lot of Trump’s thinking has to do with the defense budget and how it can be reallocated for his priorities. Today he even stated that he was going to cut nearly 10,000 troops from Germany, and recently the Germans were being persuaded by the US to buy Growlers/Super Hornets for the Naval Air Force as well as to retain the NATO interoperability with the use of tactical ... weapons. A few billion here and a few billion there and he could get enough money pooled together to get some of his other elections promises funded ... perhaps even the wall.

 

[mingle]

The US maybe reconsidering how much it actually listens to India after it recently cancelled the NASAM deal and after all the years of MRCA song and dance has decided to commit to its own LCA, without any firm orders for the F-16 or F-18. Which maybe why it could be more open to a sale of equipment to Pakistan. Some paid by Pakistan and some funded under the CSF. CSF money can still go into the congressional districts of Trump’s Republican allies like Lindsey Graham and the F-16 plant in South Carolina.

Nobody listens india when it comes to business

 

[FuturePAF]

with Biden having an approval rate of 50+%(never in history has a candidate lost from here, even Hillary never hit 50%, she was at 42% all time high) it will take a lot of effort from trump to make it....

the only way for him to win from here is to have everything settled perfectly i.e he would need the economy to hit, Biden to fail in debates and a very good result in Afghanistan at the foreign policy level (or middle east which is improbable) to really prove he is the man for the job....

i won't be surprised if a bush-era movement happens(f16s and other stuff)..

Could also tie in with Pakistan’s shuttle diplomacy to Kabul today, where Bajwa and the DG ISI met Ghana and Abdullah. Some kind of face saving exit for US forces by the election, and some kind of orderly transitional government would be a major foreign policy win Trump can point to in Debates.

AH 1Zs and T129/Z10s can give more tough time to India than our Old Cobras

Especially with their 1000 Hellfire missiles, which could probably also be fitted to the Older Cobras if they are planned to be kept flying.

doubt it..they will offer zulus instead..

Any Indication Pakistani pilots are in The US on a refresher training course for the Zulus. That could be another way to know if these birds are about to be released to come to Pakistan.

 

[Arsalan]

@Blacklight @airomerix ok i just talked to some friends and the news about C-130J is pretty serious and correct it seems

Update on this. I was talking to some friends again in this morning and they said that they too learned about it from unofficial sources (read internet). This is one of those perhaps where need to keep following to learn more.

Sir,
Please also ask if PAF managed to procure some tankers sinve we will be having around 100+ F-16s in the future.

Bahi wo C130 ki b suni sunaai ura raha thaa!!! What can i say,, may be we need to wait and watch.

100%

Interesting!!!
Any idea on timeline as well?

To be fair Khafee did break the news of 9 C130Js coming with contract signed on his forum. However he said 2 were likely to arrive in 2-3 months . He has also steadfastly maintained Zulus are coming as well as the likely !6 would be 70 rather than 72. It does seem his info was right but the timing may have been off ie he spoke a bit too soon. However credit must be given to him as well as @Tps43. These are good news. Let us wait to see it materialize.
A
A

I have dropped him an email, the post he worked it (that i cannot share) do give him access to first hand information. I was not aware of his thread on C-130J in April, furthermore, as per the record i am looking at he was banned in March so i do not understand this. However i do remember the claim about F-16 Blk 70 and up gradation of existing F-17 Blk 52s!! That was about 18 months ago. My ONLY objection with him at that point, which we discussed in detail on the open forum and in private chats was the certainty with which the claim was made. I was of the view that in case of USA, even if everything is green you cannot be sure until it have landed. We have seen this happen with US in the past. Was there any reason for anyone to believe that AH-1Z would be held back for years like they eventually were? That was the disagreement. Other than that, again, his post do give him access to first hand information.

As for his ban, i was not on the forum during that time but whatever i have managed to learn, the ban was NOT related to the claims or info he shared but on an entirely different matter, which i am still investigating to learn more myself.

Hain?

If i remember correctly, when the procurement was originally reported some YEARS ago it was said that PA may acquire some APG-78 Longbow millimeter wave radars too. The AH-1Z can carry it on wing hard point.

Its okay. Full litany of what is coming (that can be revealed and a lot more is going on than this that is better left unsaid):

1. Z-10 special Pak version
2. J-15 special Pak version
3. Non Chinese helicopters
4. VT-4 Tank
5. wheeled SPH
6. AH-1Z
7. F-16s (this is tricky, can be stopped in the last minute so don't ban me if this doesn't happen like @Khafee)
.... more...
The biggest news are not tangible products but parts and cooperation. And I think a lot more is brewing in India... they may get a deal of the century from the Americans and assorted monkeys.

What about
Su-35
EF Typhoons
Nuclear submarines


Just kidding. Yes some of the things on the list you shared are being worked on and are almost sure to be procured as well, things like VT-4 and Wheeled SPH etc. I hope we get those AH-1Z as well (and get them without further sanctions/delays, that is, this year or by mid 2021 max). The issue with uncle sam have been, no matter who is giving you the confirmation, no matter if congress have approved it and if every single department have given it a green, THEY STILL CAN FK IT UP FOR US AT THE LAST MOMENT. Haven't they in the past? This is the simple thing we should keep in mind. Again, i am not saying that these wont come but i am just reminding you that these were originally planned for September 2018 delivery and were suspended in July/August 2018!! Three years in the making, the deal was suspended just 6-8 weeks before delivery.


@airomerix

As someone said, there is nothing 'special' about someone saying that xyz toys are coming. Because something will definitely come and it won't be meritorious on the part of the member who reported it. Similarly, if nothing comes, it is NOT MERITORIOUS on your part to predict this as FAKE NEWS because Pakistan has been denied equipment even after payments. It has happened in the past when the delivery day was set to be Friday, and Congress moved in on Thursday to block that transfer. You, members, do not need to get personal, or feel superior, or believe that you all had the slightest of 'foresight' to smell BS or see it not happening. You all are just functioning and thinking like a standard unintelligent predictive text. Repeating what has been happening in the past 10 years.

THANK YOU!!
This is what i have been trying to say. This is why i always say that these military procurement from foreign sources are not a guaranteed thing. It can be 99% certain, NEVER 100% - NEVER!

It is technically possible but with a HUGE cost of both 'attempting' it and 'sustaining it'. If you're a country that has F100 powered Eagles or Vipers; it is VERY expensive to start buying the same airframe with different engines. Ask the USAF.

PAF will need twice as much tooling in its intermediate engine maintenance facilities to maintain the two separate engine types. An engine shop has millions and millions of dollars worth of special tooling for each type of engine.

Even the various models of F100 share only a portion (70% or so) of their tooling.

If PAF goes for a 50/50 split, it not only gives PAF "competition" but also makes operating 100% of the fleet TWICE as complex and expensive.

This is why there is resistance to GE getting contracts for the JSF engines as PW is the prime engine supplier. Not to mention some engine parts and tooling will be shared for the F/A-22 and JSF, like the F-15 and F-16.

Point to ponder: If you had 100 F100-220 engines, and could buy 20 new -229s that only require 30% new tooling, would you buy 20 new GEs and have to buy 100% new tooling to support less than 1/3 of your fleet? Would you replace all your old engines with GEs and have to spend 10s of millions of dollars to modify your existing aircraft fleet?

That is what is confusing me. Our existing F-16s use P&W F100 engines right?
Hypothetically speaking, WHY would be go for F-16 Blk 70 and get these with F110 GE engines in limited number. Wont that create the logistical and infrastructure/maintenance nightmare that you mentioned above? What could be the thinking behind this? When i believe the option of Block 72 with similar Pratt & Whitney F100 engines is available. This will just be way to expensive to maintain and is it really worth the 10-15% improved performance of GE engines?
@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @araz

 

[Yasser76]

Only feasible way PAF will get an influx of C-130s without a prior DSCA/EDA notification is if these were sent by a third country. US still has to approve the third party transfer but to my knowledge no DSCA/EDA notification is required, just like Jordanian F-16s.

Issue here is that RAF long sold it's C-130Js it has spare and no one has any second hand. My very best guess is that it could be Saudi C-130Hs or Turkish C-130Es (that are being replaced by A400).

 

[untitled]

DSCA/EDA notification is required, just like Jordanian F-16s.

Was there a DSCA notification for Turkish T37s?

 

[North Star]

I have talked to Kaiser Tufail sahib. He is not aware of any such development like C-130 Js or anything else coming our way for now. Currently we are under US sanctions as Secretary of State did not certify that Pakistan is co-operation in USA's anti terror efforts.

 

[Yasser76]

Was there a DSCA notification for Turkish T37s?

Please read my post properly, I said "no DSCA/Notification is required" for third party transfers. Just permission of US State and Defence department

 

[Armchair]

Btw, do contracts come After notifications, or Before? Just for my general knowledge

Contracts come before notifications. There is a gap between them which isn't a fixed amount of time necessarily.

 

[untitled]

Please read my post properly, I said "no DSCA/Notification is required" for third party transfers. Just permission of US State and Defence department

I was expanding on your post not challenging it

 

[Yasser76]

I was expanding on your post not challenging it

OK, apologies.

 

[Armchair]

What the C-130Js means tactically and operationally for Pakistan:

1. Rapid deployment of forces and supplies to the northern areas and Kashmir from all over Pakistan.
2. Low operational cost and maintenance and a very durable platform that will last 50 more years.
3. Ability to transfer troops and supplies inter theater with greater rapidity than the rail system.