Rumors: Pakistan to acquire five C-130J Super Hercules

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

C130 Jumma Bazzar feeling on the thread, when I want to feel good , I open up this thread

 

[FuturePAF]

Good time to buy some mint condition EDAs left over from the Afghan theater. Or just get the TTA to send over some goodies(they're a free country now, doubt they'll listen).


Will the bible preachin WASP evangelists in Congress approve it??


Heavy Atak is gonna be a gem for Pakistan I'm sure.


Wouldn't Mi35 be better since it can drop them in and provide CAS at the same time. Idk not an expert tho.

Not an expert either, but from the look of the two helicopters and some specs online, the smaller size (for the same number of troops), better maneuverability, probably quieter, and higher reliability of the UH-1Y make it a better platform for troops, while a dedicated attack platform can provide proper protection. Even if 2 Mi-35 go into an area, the mi-35 providing cover maybe limited in its maneuvers if it is also carrying troops.

Once again, not an expert

 

[HAIDER]

Bhai, Block 3 ki koi to update hogi yar ? Kab aaegi video of flight ? Ya kuch bhi ? @airomerix

LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

@MastanKhan ....

 

[mingle]

For surplus C130J only requires Pompeo's letter it comes under EDA

 

[PDF]

We tried. Believe me.

so was it US or RAF that couldn't accomodate the deal? We have pretty cordial relation with RAF so unless it was US+funds+BAF making a good offer, we would have secured them. I know I am getting too greedy now but RAF should have cut us some slack...

 

[FuturePAF]

Khafee- We should open a line with him, and try and bring him back.

On the US -We should get preferential access to the US market, and use that to bolster our economy.


Brother I dont think T129 will come. I already posted a link in reply to your answer, on how even the Philippines potential T129 sale was blocked by the US.

With the Ah-1Z yes the possibility of more does exist.

You hit the nail on the head. Economic stability has to be another aspects of a strong long term relationship between Pakistan and the US. If the US wants to honor the sacrifice of the thousands of Americans lost in Afghanistan, it can help build a sustainable economic relationship with countries in the region.

Perhaps in a few years, the future government in Afghanistan may come around to a “decent” relationship with the west, if the US really competes with China for their business. Who would have thought Vietnam would be good friends with the US, but national interests have a way of redefining ties.

p.s. sorry for going off topic, but it was an important point to acknowledge along side military acquisitions.

Khafee has been talking about Su-35s as well with same Exclusiveness. What happened to that news?

View attachment 640187

Probably cancelled to avoid CAATSA. Besides Pakistan could go for a Chinese Flanker like the J-16 without fear of CAATSA, but the issue will come back to finances. The Russians probably wanted to extend a low interest loan like they did with the Turkish S-400 deal. IMHO, its a good thing Pakistan didn’t go for the Su-35 (or J-16 for now) so it can focus on JF-17 and forces our negotiators to try to get those F-16s as part of any deal. While single engine, with Two drop tanks, and if we have a large number of F-16s, it could be possible the F-16s can become allocated to support the navy.

 

[StormBreaker]

LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

@MastanKhan ....

 

[Blacklight]

Alright.

This is going to be a long post. I've tried to answer all the questions in this thread that were directed towards me.

I understand that Pakistan has suffered too many blowbacks in the past 10 years in terms of military equipment being canceled, embargoed, or delayed. It was mainly because there was no work being done in the domain of foreign affairs, defense and a rift existed between civil-military leadership which did not settle well with the major players such as the US, UK, and EU. The past 2 years have been very good for Pakistan in terms of diplomacy and civil-military alignment. For the first time, there is no looming threat of martial law on the horizon. Otherwise, events such as Salala attack and dawk leaks presented an opportunity for such adventures.

Having said that, PAF has been trying to acquire C-130's for the past 2 years. The February 2019 military deployment was carried out smoothly but it did expose us to many learnings that called for a requirement of an additional C-130 capacity squadron in the center (multan). The current epidemic also presented an opportunity to learn and exposed us to such learnings when our C-130's had to carry out multiple flights overseas with risks of break downs. Training is another major concern where current C-130's are sometimes used carefully due to their age.

As for this news. Yes, there has been no talk of it on the internet. No DSCA notifications. Nothing.

But, there has been a talk on command and tactical level of C-130's arriving 'soon' and hence a pilot shortage is expected. This news got out when pilots were recalled from non-combat stations and duties such as ISSB, PAC, Air War College, PFT, BFT air war college. There has not been one source. Not two. Not three. Multiple.

IF NOTHING HAPPENS, THEN NOTHING HAPPENS. IT WILL BE OUR BAD LUCK. AND THIS THREAD WILL GO DOWN THE DRAIN. I don't post much. I have no interest in getting a couple of batons on my shoulders (on this forum) or to get attention. The members who know me and my credibility, know me.

As someone said, there is nothing 'special' about someone saying that xyz toys are coming. Because something will definitely come and it won't be meritorious on the part of the member who reported it. Similarly, if nothing comes, it is NOT MERITORIOUS on your part to predict this as FAKE NEWS because Pakistan has been denied equipment even after payments. It has happened in the past when the delivery day was set to be Friday, and Congress moved in on Thursday to block that transfer. You, members, do not need to get personal, or feel superior, or believe that you all had the slightest of 'foresight' to smell BS or see it not happening. You all are just functioning and thinking like a standard unintelligent predictive text. Repeating what has been happening in the past 10 years.

So please. get off your high horses and stay calm. Discuss the merits and demerits wit will have on Pakistan's combat support capability. As soon as I get the pictures or anything information (disclosable). I will be the first one to do that.

Thank you.




All our C-130s have been converted to H standard in terms of avionics.



All C-130B's are here to stay. These are additions.





You are right. DSCA notification is the first indication of any such deal. However it might pop up any minute. We can only wait.



Meray hath mein kuch nahin hai janab.



Congratulations. You are officially sailing against the tide and getting that due attention you just spoke of.



Bingo. This is all give and take.



I dont believe so. These deals are very high level. Internet chatter doesnt cut it.




I look forward to your contribution to this forum. You can go in my history and look at mine.



Let's not jump the gun please.



It is technically possible but with a HUGE cost of both 'attempting' it and 'sustaining it'. If you're a country that has F100 powered Eagles or Vipers; it is VERY expensive to start buying the same airframe with different engines. Ask the USAF.

PAF will need twice as much tooling in its intermediate engine maintenance facilities to maintain the two separate engine types. An engine shop has millions and millions of dollars worth of special tooling for each type of engine.

Even the various models of F100 share only a portion (70% or so) of their tooling.

If PAF goes for a 50/50 split, it not only gives PAF "competition" but also makes operating 100% of the fleet TWICE as complex and expensive.

This is why there is resistance to GE getting contracts for the JSF engines as PW is the prime engine supplier. Not to mention some engine parts and tooling will be shared for the F/A-22 and JSF, like the F-15 and F-16.

Point to ponder: If you had 100 F100-220 engines, and could buy 20 new -229s that only require 30% new tooling, would you buy 20 new GEs and have to buy 100% new tooling to support less than 1/3 of your fleet? Would you replace all your old engines with GEs and have to spend 10s of millions of dollars to modify your existing aircraft fleet?



Like i said it appears to be legit.



We tried. Believe me.



Cant find it in my pocket.

All these clueless kids, heckling you like retards. I should have kept my mouth shut. Please accept my humblest and deepest apology.

 

[Gripen9]

Alright.

This is going to be a long post. I've tried to answer all the questions in this thread that were directed towards me.

I understand that Pakistan has suffered too many blowbacks in the past 10 years in terms of military equipment being canceled, embargoed, or delayed. It was mainly because there was no work being done in the domain of foreign affairs, defense and a rift existed between civil-military leadership which did not settle well with the major players such as the US, UK, and EU. The past 2 years have been very good for Pakistan in terms of diplomacy and civil-military alignment. For the first time, there is no looming threat of martial law on the horizon. Otherwise, events such as Salala attack and dawk leaks presented an opportunity for such adventures.

Having said that, PAF has been trying to acquire C-130's for the past 2 years. The February 2019 military deployment was carried out smoothly but it did expose us to many learnings that called for a requirement of an additional C-130 capacity squadron in the center (multan). The current epidemic also presented an opportunity to learn and exposed us to such learnings when our C-130's had to carry out multiple flights overseas with risks of break downs. Training is another major concern where current C-130's are sometimes used carefully due to their age.

As for this news. Yes, there has been no talk of it on the internet. No DSCA notifications. Nothing.

But, there has been a talk on command and tactical level of C-130's arriving 'soon' and hence a pilot shortage is expected. This news got out when pilots were recalled from non-combat stations and duties such as ISSB, PAC, Air War College, PFT, BFT air war college. There has not been one source. Not two. Not three. Multiple.

IF NOTHING HAPPENS, THEN NOTHING HAPPENS. IT WILL BE OUR BAD LUCK. AND THIS THREAD WILL GO DOWN THE DRAIN. I don't post much. I have no interest in getting a couple of batons on my shoulders (on this forum) or to get attention. The members who know me and my credibility, know me.

As someone said, there is nothing 'special' about someone saying that xyz toys are coming. Because something will definitely come and it won't be meritorious on the part of the member who reported it. Similarly, if nothing comes, it is NOT MERITORIOUS on your part to predict this as FAKE NEWS because Pakistan has been denied equipment even after payments. It has happened in the past when the delivery day was set to be Friday, and Congress moved in on Thursday to block that transfer. You, members, do not need to get personal, or feel superior, or believe that you all had the slightest of 'foresight' to smell BS or see it not happening. You all are just functioning and thinking like a standard unintelligent predictive text. Repeating what has been happening in the past 10 years.

So please. get off your high horses and stay calm. Discuss the merits and demerits wit will have on Pakistan's combat support capability. As soon as I get the pictures or anything information (disclosable). I will be the first one to do that.

Thank you.




All our C-130s have been converted to H standard in terms of avionics.



All C-130B's are here to stay. These are additions.





You are right. DSCA notification is the first indication of any such deal. However it might pop up any minute. We can only wait.



Meray hath mein kuch nahin hai janab.



Congratulations. You are officially sailing against the tide and getting that due attention you just spoke of.



Bingo. This is all give and take.



I dont believe so. These deals are very high level. Internet chatter doesnt cut it.




I look forward to your contribution to this forum. You can go in my history and look at mine.



Let's not jump the gun please.



It is technically possible but with a HUGE cost of both 'attempting' it and 'sustaining it'. If you're a country that has F100 powered Eagles or Vipers; it is VERY expensive to start buying the same airframe with different engines. Ask the USAF.

PAF will need twice as much tooling in its intermediate engine maintenance facilities to maintain the two separate engine types. An engine shop has millions and millions of dollars worth of special tooling for each type of engine.

Even the various models of F100 share only a portion (70% or so) of their tooling.

If PAF goes for a 50/50 split, it not only gives PAF "competition" but also makes operating 100% of the fleet TWICE as complex and expensive.

This is why there is resistance to GE getting contracts for the JSF engines as PW is the prime engine supplier. Not to mention some engine parts and tooling will be shared for the F/A-22 and JSF, like the F-15 and F-16.

Point to ponder: If you had 100 F100-220 engines, and could buy 20 new -229s that only require 30% new tooling, would you buy 20 new GEs and have to buy 100% new tooling to support less than 1/3 of your fleet? Would you replace all your old engines with GEs and have to spend 10s of millions of dollars to modify your existing aircraft fleet?



Like i said it appears to be legit.



We tried. Believe me.



Cant find it in my pocket.

Add to this, a new SQN being raised (No 52) and CN235s moved under it from No 6 SQN.

 

[Thorough Pro]

The simple point is, is there any confirmation from any side regarding negotiations or agreement?
If not, then it's just hearsay, and what's the point of opening a thread based on hearsay?
If you don't want any medals for breaking the news, which I believe you don't, then what was the need for it?
If they come, people will find out, just like they did about the Jordanian F-16's.

Alright.

This is going to be a long post. I've tried to answer all the questions in this thread that were directed towards me.

I understand that Pakistan has suffered too many blowbacks in the past 10 years in terms of military equipment being canceled, embargoed, or delayed. It was mainly because there was no work being done in the domain of foreign affairs, defense and a rift existed between civil-military leadership which did not settle well with the major players such as the US, UK, and EU. The past 2 years have been very good for Pakistan in terms of diplomacy and civil-military alignment. For the first time, there is no looming threat of martial law on the horizon. Otherwise, events such as Salala attack and dawk leaks presented an opportunity for such adventures.

Having said that, PAF has been trying to acquire C-130's for the past 2 years. The February 2019 military deployment was carried out smoothly but it did expose us to many learnings that called for a requirement of an additional C-130 capacity squadron in the center (multan). The current epidemic also presented an opportunity to learn and exposed us to such learnings when our C-130's had to carry out multiple flights overseas with risks of break downs. Training is another major concern where current C-130's are sometimes used carefully due to their age.

As for this news. Yes, there has been no talk of it on the internet. No DSCA notifications. Nothing.

But, there has been a talk on command and tactical level of C-130's arriving 'soon' and hence a pilot shortage is expected. This news got out when pilots were recalled from non-combat stations and duties such as ISSB, PAC, Air War College, PFT, BFT air war college. There has not been one source. Not two. Not three. Multiple.

IF NOTHING HAPPENS, THEN NOTHING HAPPENS. IT WILL BE OUR BAD LUCK. AND THIS THREAD WILL GO DOWN THE DRAIN. I don't post much. I have no interest in getting a couple of batons on my shoulders (on this forum) or to get attention. The members who know me and my credibility, know me.

As someone said, there is nothing 'special' about someone saying that xyz toys are coming. Because something will definitely come and it won't be meritorious on the part of the member who reported it. Similarly, if nothing comes, it is NOT MERITORIOUS on your part to predict this as FAKE NEWS because Pakistan has been denied equipment even after payments. It has happened in the past when the delivery day was set to be Friday, and Congress moved in on Thursday to block that transfer. You, members, do not need to get personal, or feel superior, or believe that you all had the slightest of 'foresight' to smell BS or see it not happening. You all are just functioning and thinking like a standard unintelligent predictive text. Repeating what has been happening in the past 10 years.

So please. get off your high horses and stay calm. Discuss the merits and demerits wit will have on Pakistan's combat support capability. As soon as I get the pictures or anything information (disclosable). I will be the first one to do that.

Thank you.




All our C-130s have been converted to H standard in terms of avionics.



All C-130B's are here to stay. These are additions.





You are right. DSCA notification is the first indication of any such deal. However it might pop up any minute. We can only wait.



Meray hath mein kuch nahin hai janab.



Congratulations. You are officially sailing against the tide and getting that due attention you just spoke of.



Bingo. This is all give and take.



I dont believe so. These deals are very high level. Internet chatter doesnt cut it.




I look forward to your contribution to this forum. You can go in my history and look at mine.



Let's not jump the gun please.



It is technically possible but with a HUGE cost of both 'attempting' it and 'sustaining it'. If you're a country that has F100 powered Eagles or Vipers; it is VERY expensive to start buying the same airframe with different engines. Ask the USAF.

PAF will need twice as much tooling in its intermediate engine maintenance facilities to maintain the two separate engine types. An engine shop has millions and millions of dollars worth of special tooling for each type of engine.

Even the various models of F100 share only a portion (70% or so) of their tooling.

If PAF goes for a 50/50 split, it not only gives PAF "competition" but also makes operating 100% of the fleet TWICE as complex and expensive.

This is why there is resistance to GE getting contracts for the JSF engines as PW is the prime engine supplier. Not to mention some engine parts and tooling will be shared for the F/A-22 and JSF, like the F-15 and F-16.

Point to ponder: If you had 100 F100-220 engines, and could buy 20 new -229s that only require 30% new tooling, would you buy 20 new GEs and have to buy 100% new tooling to support less than 1/3 of your fleet? Would you replace all your old engines with GEs and have to spend 10s of millions of dollars to modify your existing aircraft fleet?



Like i said it appears to be legit.



We tried. Believe me.



Cant find it in my pocket.

 

[HAIDER]

The simple point is, is there any confirmation from any side regarding negotiations or agreement?
If not, then it's just hearsay, and what's the point of opening a thread based on hearsay?
If you don't want any medals for breaking the news, which I believe you don't, then what was the need for it?
If they come, people will find out, just like they did about the Jordanian F-16's.

Mess leaks , club chats ...even tea chats .. all day meetings etc etc ..

 

[Thorough Pro]

Even Notifications don't mean anything, how many times have they backed out of signed agreements?
I won't trust Americans at any cost. We should move away from them and form a real partnership with China.
If our most advanced fighter program is in collaboration with China, what the heck is wrong with Chinese transporters?

Not believing any of this unless I see notification from US government.

 

[Blacklight]

Cant find it in my pocket.

Btw, do contracts come After notifications, or Before? Just for my general knowledge

 

[Nomad40]

So @Khafee must be right about the J-15 as well.

 

[airomerix]

Btw, do contracts come After notifications, or Before? Just for my general knowledge

Typically before. Notification means all the sub contractors have been selected and awarded. DSCA notification is usually the last contract which gives an overview of tens or hundreds of other contracts.

The simple point is, is there any confirmation from any side regarding negotiations or agreement?
If not, then it's just hearsay, and what's the point of opening a thread based on hearsay?

If you don't want any medals for breaking the news, which I believe you don't, then what was the need for it?
If they come, people will find out, just like they did about the Jordanian F-16's.

[/qUOTE]

I never thought i'd have to remind you. But, forums function on the principle of speculation and this 'hearsay' in the military circles is a further refined form of a bunch of civilians speculating online. Most of the time, it holds water and things do materialize.

For that matter, weeks before Anatolian eagle's and Anatolian phoenix's announcement, I made a thread on this forum. By the time we actually saw official notifications, we were 20 pages on those threads.

Similarly, this 'hearsay' enabled me to disclose Su-30 going down from 221 Sqn back in April/May. I was abused and snubbed on this forum by a couple of members aswell. So yes, It does depend on who posts these 'hearsays'. I think at least a few members find my information, insights, and predictions credible and this is why I went ahead with this thread.

I very much respect you, hence I'm coming forward with this explanation.

Lastly, please see below what i posted before. This thread should continue with discussion on the merits of C-130J when it enters service with PAF. I want you to trust me. I have never posted any false information or thread on this forum. There was a reason why I was absent from F-16V Block 70 thread. This time it's different.

Discuss the merits and demerits wit will have on Pakistan's combat support capability. As soon as I get the pictures or anything information (disclosable). I will be the first one to do that.