Rumors: Pakistan to acquire five C-130J Super Hercules

[Viper27]

I have talked to Kaiser Tufail sahib. He is not aware of any such development like C-130 Js or anything else coming our way for now. Currently we are under US sanctions as Secretary of State did not certify that Pakistan is co-operation in USA's anti terror efforts.

We are not under sanctions of any kind. Our aid has been suspended though that too is basically reviewed on a case to case basis. You don’t get F-16 engine parts and sniper pods if you are sanctioned. Also, it’s unlikely Kaiser sahb will disclose PAF procurements like these openly nor do I think PAF will openly discuss these with retired officers regularly.

 

[Armchair]

Bold part

J15?? Really??

The reasoning is that J-15s don't have an IP issue. The Russians refused to share the Su-33 with the Chinese who had to get the tech from Ukraine. So, the Russians cannot complain about a sale to Pakistan. These aircraft are supposedly the most hitech other than the J-20 and J-31, given that China has a handful of them in a carrier they need to be the best possible.

Apparently will retain their hooks and folding wings - for unknown reasons. A @Khafee recently noted, perhaps to ensure they can land in PLAN aircraft carriers in joint training exercises. Or perhaps the folding wings will help them fit in the present shelters the PAF has.

To get them built without the folding wings would have delayed the program by about 18 months so it was decided to go with the standard PLAN airframe. Slight delay due to COVID19 and teething problems but expected by September 2020.

A good number of them will be growler variants.

All this info (except for the hangar fitting part) is from @Khafee

 

[Viper27]

The reasoning is that J-15s don't have an IP issue. The Russians refused to share the Su-33 with the Chinese who had to get the tech from Ukraine. So, the Russians cannot complain about a sale to Pakistan. These aircraft are supposedly the most hitech other than the J-20 and J-31, given that China has a handful of them in a carrier they need to be the best possible.

Apparently will retain their hooks and folding wings - for unknown reasons. A @Khafee recently noted, perhaps to ensure they can land in PLAN aircraft carriers in joint training exercises. Or perhaps the folding wings will help them fit in the present shelters the PAF has.

To get them built without the folding wings would have delayed the program by about 18 months so it was decided to go with the standard PLAN airframe. Slight delay due to COVID19 and teething problems but expected by September 2020.

A good number of them will be growler variants.

All this info (except for the hangar fitting part) is from @Khafee

I'm assuming the hooks can be taken out and put back when required..no?

 

[Armchair]

I'm assuming the hooks can be taken out and put back when required..no?

I don't know to what extent that is true and the structural weight increase due to hooks and folding wings - how all that pans out. There is a lot more at play than the actual hooks but the subsystems that are integrated with them. All adding space, weight, complexity, cost, etc.

 

[The Raven]

The reasoning is that J-15s don't have an IP issue. The Russians refused to share the Su-33 with the Chinese who had to get the tech from Ukraine. So, the Russians cannot complain about a sale to Pakistan. These aircraft are supposedly the most hitech other than the J-20 and J-31, given that China has a handful of them in a carrier they need to be the best possible.

Apparently will retain their hooks and folding wings - for unknown reasons. A @Khafee recently noted, perhaps to ensure they can land in PLAN aircraft carriers in joint training exercises. Or perhaps the folding wings will help them fit in the present shelters the PAF has.

To get them built without the folding wings would have delayed the program by about 18 months so it was decided to go with the standard PLAN airframe. Slight delay due to COVID19 and teething problems but expected by September 2020.

A good number of them will be growler variants.

All this info (except for the hangar fitting part) is from @Khafee

Complete garbage. Please explain how the J-15 doesn't have any IP issues. It's an unlicensed copy of the Su-33, which the Chinese acquired a couple of examples from Ukraine. It will have the same IP issues as any other Flanker clone the Chinese make, such as the J-16. If the J-15 operates from land, the folding wings and tail hook won't be removed for the same reason that land based F-18 Hornets in use by Canada, Finland and Australia haven't removed their tail hooks or folding wings - the complexity and cost. You can't just swap out folding wings for fixed wings that easily. Take a look at the F-18L design concept, McDonnell Douglas' land based Hornet design from the 80s. It was cancelled because of cost and those interested in the Hornet decided to stick with the naval variant. And no, it does NOT mean the PAF will be making any landings on Chinese carriers

 

[Aspen]

Added rumors to the title until it happens. Once we have a credible source we can edit it, until then lets keep it this way.

We don't want to be labeled fake news yet it allows the discussions to occur.

What happened to the thread about 12 militants being killed in Balochistan from a week ago? Did it amount to anything or was it just a rumor?

 

[Yasser76]

What the C-130Js means tactically and operationally for Pakistan:

1. Rapid deployment of forces and supplies to the northern areas and Kashmir from all over Pakistan.
2. Low operational cost and maintenance and a very durable platform that will last 50 more years.
3. Ability to transfer troops and supplies inter theater with greater rapidity than the rail system.

Looking at size and road and rail network of Pakistan C-130s make little sense in troop deployment. Probably more for base support, logistics and international flights. We have a 500,000 army spread over most of Pakistan, the majority facing India, very near the border. You would need 6 C-130s just to lift a full Battalion. Loading, unloading then driving to and from air base, then flight time say from Chaklala air base to Lahore Will probably take you 3-4 hours. You can drive it in that time on M2 Motorway

 

[ARMalik]

Procurement from China - NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.
Procurement from Turkey, Italy, South Africa, Brazil - NO PROBLEMS.
Procurement from USA - VERY PROBLEMATIC.

 

[Yasser76]

Procurement from China - NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.
Procurement from Turkey, Italy, South Africa, Brazil - NO PROBLEMS.
Procurement from USA - VERY PROBLEMATIC.

Yes, exactly but point is for last 50 years US equipment has been the very cutting edge, especially in aviation. PAF were completly transformed in the 50's after the arrival of the F-186 and again in the 80s after arrival of F-16A and yet again in 2000's after arrival of F-16 Block 52. Each time these aircraft were inducted PAF were exposed to cutting edge technology, tactics and training. These then spread throughout the air force and helped us up our game. Induction of say MIG-21 in 60s, MIG-29 in 80s and SU-30 in 90s did not have the same effect on IAF.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

As for his ban, i was not on the forum during that time but whatever i have managed to learn, the ban was NOT related to the claims or info he shared but on an entirely different matter, which i am still investigating to learn more myself.

religious issue

What about
Su-35
EF Typhoons
Nuclear submarines

A twin Engine fighter for naval strike and type 052Ds

 

[Armchair]

GE has a lot more lobbying power that P&W. That's one point not thought out.

Looking at size and road and rail network of Pakistan C-130s make little sense in troop deployment. Probably more for base support, logistics and international flights. We have a 500,000 army spread over most of Pakistan, the majority facing India, very near the border. You would need 6 C-130s just to lift a full Battalion. Loading, unloading then driving to and from air base, then flight time say from Chaklala air base to Lahore Will probably take you 3-4 hours. You can drive it in that time on M2 Motorway

Say, there is an emergency in GB and you need to fly in forces in addition to the forces available nearby. Similarly, say there is an emergency in the Iran border regions and you need to move forces in addition to those available in Quetta.

Similarly, Pakistan has less forces in North Sindh where India plans a cold start. A battalion in time is often a very valuable military asset. This is not even mentioning paratroopers.

 

[Arsalan]

religious issue


A twin Engine fighter for naval strike and type 052Ds

A super carrier too because "me likes em"

 

[TsAr]

So US will release CSF for Hercs, an non offensive platform but not LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines for Pak T129 ATAK which is commercial in nature between Honeywell-Rollcroyce and TAI???
May be after Pak squeezing some more in Afg they may allow LHTEC T800-4A. Vipers are long shot.

USA not releasing the engines for T129 has nothing to do with Pakistan, its the Turk US relations that are not on good terms...

 

[ziaulislam]

So US will release CSF for Hercs, an non offensive platform but not LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines for Pak T129 ATAK which is commercial in nature between Honeywell-Rollcroyce and TAI???
May be after Pak squeezing some more in Afg they may allow LHTEC T800-4A. Vipers are long shot.

They wont..they will simply state hey buy the zulus..and army wouldnt say no..
Anyway getting zulus or f16s and tones of otger equipment will be on higher pirority list as compared to arguing about t129 engine.

Philippines didnt get it..we wont either

 

[PakShaheen79]

23 Pages and continue on a threat where Rumor is part of its title. ... Nice fun! I am glad this time our fantasy is C-130J, something more believable. Let's see for how long this bubble stay in tact!