Road to Islamic State was paved by America's Faustian bargain with Saudi Wahhabism

[Ice Cube]

nazi like ideology, and must be finished just like the nazis were

 

[Zarvan]

Prove it from Quran or Hadith that it is "Haram" and "Shirk". Rasool SAW also never used a laptop or a cell phone. I am asking you to prove from Quran and sunnah that the above mentioned thing is haram or shirk. Don't defend for the sake of defense, Prove it. I am asking this by your wahabi logic, that if its not mentioned in Quran or Hadith then its Haram and Shirk. Guide me, i'm open for this lesson.

For example what ? Hajre Aswad was kissed by RASOOL SAW but I haven't read any Hadees which says that Hazoor SAW also kissed Maqam e Ibrahim. As for other things if you want to know than add me on Facebook I would give you detailed answers there

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

For example what ?

Read carefully

Prove it from Quran or Hadith that it is "Haram" and "Shirk" to kiss maqaam e ibrahim or kabaa. Rasool SAW also never used a laptop or a cell phone so does it mean that it is also haram and shirk?. I am asking you to prove from Quran and sunnah that the above mentioned thing is haram or shirk. Don't defend for the sake of defense, Prove it. I am asking this by your wahabi logic, that if its not mentioned in Quran or Hadith then its Haram and Shirk. Guide me, i'm open for this lesson of wahabism.

 

[Zarvan]

Read carefully

Prove it from Quran or Hadith that it is "Haram" and "Shirk" to kiss maqaam e ibrahim or kabaa. Rasool SAW also never used a laptop or a cell phone so does it mean that it is also haram and shirk?. I am asking you to prove from Quran and sunnah that the above mentioned thing is haram or shirk. Don't defend for the sake of defense, Prove it. I am asking this by your wahabi logic, that if its not mentioned in Quran or Hadith then its Haram and Shirk. Guide me, i'm open for this lesson of wahabism.

Your ignorance on this issue is of epic proportions before talking and wasting my time go and understand what is meant by bidat in Islamic terms than come here and talk

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

Your ignorance on this issue is of epic proportions before talking and wasting my time go and understand what is meant by bidat in Islamic terms than come here and talk

My God, a wahabi is running away from a debate? Not very strange though, my head would have been chopped off if i were infront of you bcz you would have declared me kafir and would have issued my takfir.

So that means you are saying that Tarawih namaz is also bidat and we should stop it ? And Hazrat Umar started 80 lashes for a drinker and Rasool SAW just used to give 40 lashes to a drinker, and now you are Calling my favourite Khalifa as a bidatee (Nauzubillah) by your wahabi logic? OMG. Is there anyother wahabi here to issue my brother zarvan's takfir plz? There are types of bidat. And you are saying that kissing kabaa and maqam e ibrahim is a bad bidat? Wow. I am asking you to prove it from QURAN AND SUNNAH that it is HARAM AND SHIRK to kiss kabaa and maqam e ibrahim. Cumon yaar use some of your great WAHABI LOGIC.

I am expecting my takfir at any moment by my wahabi brother.

 

[Manidabest]

well one should not discuss such things in threads and i think non of us is well qualified for it ... the best is read this surah's last line

 

[Zarvan]

My God, a wahabi is running away from a debate? Not very strange though, my head would have been chopped off if i were infront of you bcz you would have declared me kafir and would have issued my takfir.

So that means you are saying that Tarawih namaz is also bidat and we should stop it ? And Hazrat Umar started 80 lashes for a drinker and Rasool SAW just used to give 40 lashes to a drinker, and now you are Calling my favourite Khalifa as a bidatee (Nauzubillah) by your wahabi logic? OMG. Is there anyother wahabi here to issue my brother zarvan's takfir plz? There are types of bidat. And you are saying that kissing kabaa and maqam e ibrahim is a bad bidat? Wow. I am asking you to prove it from QURAN AND SUNNAH that it is HARAM AND SHIRK to kiss kabaa and maqam e ibrahim. Cumon yaar use some of your great WAHABI LOGIC.

I am expecting my takfir at any moment by my wahabi brother.

Tarawih Namaz was offered by RASOOL SAW and was offered in Jamaat but yes 20 Rakats was started by Hazrat UMAR RA. Barelvis somehow try to suggest that all 20 Taraweeh are farz no they are no. Neither 20 are Farz nor 8 they are Sunnat and better if you offer them and have lot of reward. How much you can offer ? well you can offer as many as you want. In Hadees if you read RASOOL SAW didn't offered more than 13. I am not running from debate, if I got started than I can debate with you for several years. Do you want to start this than here is my Facebook profile
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[Baloch Pakistani]

Tarawih Namaz was offered by RASOOL SAW and was offered in Jamaat but yes 20 Rakats was started by Hazrat UMAR RA. Barelvis somehow try to suggest that all 20 Taraweeh are farz no they are no. Neither 20 are Farz nor 8 they are Sunnat and better if you offer them and have lot of reward. How much you can offer ? well you can offer as many as you want. In Hadees if you read RASOOL SAW didn't offered more than 13. I am not running from debate, if I got started than I can debate with you for several years. Do you want to start this than here is my Facebook profile
Facebook - Log In or Sign Up

You are running away from my original question, that prove me from Quran and Hadith that kissing kabaa and Maqam e Ibrahim is shirk and haram.

If Rasool SAW offered 13 rakats and Harzat Umar RA increased it to 20 then does is mean that it is bidat and he committed this crime? Rasool SAW even stopped offering it in mosque and started offering it in his home, so should we not stop offering it in mosque and offer it in our homes? Hazrat umar started 80 lashes is that also a bidat? NO he did it as a bidat e hasna, which you guys use to support your own wahabi ideology only and no other person can use it. Your bidat is bidat e hasna and others bidat is a BAD bidat.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

Answer my first question. Teach me, i am inclined towards wahabism.

Note: I don't go to graves to ask anything from there, nothing at all. I just pray from Allah. But i visit my ancestors graves and offer surah fatiha. Telling you just in case.

 

[Zarvan]

You are running away from my original question, that prove me from Quran and Hadith that kissing kabaa and Maqam e Ibrahim is shirk and haram.

If Rasool SAW offered 13 rakats and Harzat Umar RA increased it to 20 then does is mean that it is bidat and he committed this crime? Rasool SAW even stopped offering it in mosque and started offering it in his home, so should we not stop offering it in mosque and offer it in our homes? Hazrat umar started 80 lashes is that also a bidat? NO he did it as a bidat e hasna, which you guys use to support your own wahabi ideology only and no other person can use it. Your bidat is bidat e hasna and others bidat is a BAD bidat.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

Answer my first question. Teach me, i am inclined towards wahabism.

Note: I don't go to graves to ask anything from there, nothing at all. I just pray from Allah. But i visit my ancestors graves and offer surah fatiha. Telling you just in case.

First if you want to know about Salafis than first answer is they follow first Quran and Sunnah and than way of Sahabas. So 20 rakats can be offered but not compulsory which barlevi tell you. It's Sunnah those who want to read entire 20 their choice those who want to offer less they are also free. As for final question if RASOOL SAW didn't kissed Kaba or Maqam e Ibrahim and you would do it considering that it would also get you sawab than you are doing wrong otherwise not a issue.

You are running away from my original question, that prove me from Quran and Hadith that kissing kabaa and Maqam e Ibrahim is shirk and haram.

If Rasool SAW offered 13 rakats and Harzat Umar RA increased it to 20 then does is mean that it is bidat and he committed this crime? Rasool SAW even stopped offering it in mosque and started offering it in his home, so should we not stop offering it in mosque and offer it in our homes? Hazrat umar started 80 lashes is that also a bidat? NO he did it as a bidat e hasna, which you guys use to support your own wahabi ideology only and no other person can use it. Your bidat is bidat e hasna and others bidat is a BAD bidat.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

Answer my first question. Teach me, i am inclined towards wahabism.

Note: I don't go to graves to ask anything from there, nothing at all. I just pray from Allah. But i visit my ancestors graves and offer surah fatiha. Telling you just in case.

That is allowed but building structures on grave and doing sajda or bowing to grave is not allowed. Also graves should be turned into places of worhip

Note : Now I am not interested in debating here on this forum because it's against forum rules so please contact me on Facebook

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

First if you want to know about Salafis than first answer is they follow first Quran and Sunnah and than way of Sahabas. So 20 rakats can be offered but not compulsory which barlevi tell you. It's Sunnah those who want to read entire 20 their choice those who want to offer less they are also free. As for final question if RASOOL SAW didn't kissed Kaba or Maqam e Ibrahim and you would do it considering that it would also get you sawab than you are doing wrong otherwise not a issue.


That is allowed but building structures on grave and doing sajda or bowing to grave is not allowed. Also graves should be turned into places of worhip

Note : Now I am not interested in debating here on this froum because it's against forum rules so please contact me on Facebook

If it is allowed then why they place a guy near maqaam e ibrahim (my own experience) to tell everyone that its haram and shirk? Why when someone hugs kabaa they call Astaghfirullah Astaghfirullah? Did sahabas use mobile phone or laptops or even cars? Why your bidat is a good bidat and others bidat is a bad bidat? And every other sect is kafir and must be killed ? Why most of the terrorist groups are wahabis? And can you tell me the difference between a wahabi and a kharji? And why do you guys call Hazrat Hussain a rebel and Yazid lanat ullah illeh as your caliph?

Not fighting you, just asking you. And wahabis stop this takfir shit everywhere.


Note: I am not brelvi or wahabi or shia or ahl e hadith or any other thing. I am muslim. I will accept what is right and reject what is wrong. So i dont pray to graves but visit my ancestors grave for surah fatiha. I pray only to Allah like Wahabis but i am not full of hate like them and don't kill people like them, I absolutely love Ahlul Bait and Hazrat hussain like shias but i dont beat myself or injure myself like them. I am a muslim, i will take what is right and reject what is wrong. And i don't like ibn e taymiya bcz of his personal enmity and biased-ness towards hazrat Ali RA.

Since you are not interested in a debate on this forum so i am stoping this debate bcz of the rules you are talking about.

May Allah guide both of us.

I really admire molana ishaq of faisalabad, he was a wise and neutral person.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Nobody becomes an insurgent or terrorist just because weapons are available.

I didn't say that you had any role in the ideology that created this scum. All I meant was that it seems a political miscalculation allowed a large amount of arms to become available to these groups and made possible their sudden surge.

 

[Zarvan]

If it is allowed then why they place a guy near maqaam e ibrahim (my own experience) to tell everyone that its haram and shirk? Why when someone hugs kabaa they call Astaghfirullah Astaghfirullah? Did sahabas use mobile phone or laptops or even cars? Why your bidat is a good bidat and others bidat is a bad bidat? And every other sect is kafir and must be killed ? Why most of the terrorist groups are wahabis? And can you tell me the difference between a wahabi and a kharji? And why do you guys call Hazrat Hussain a rebel and Yazid lanat ullah illeh as your caliph?

Not fighting you, just asking you. And wahabis stop this takfir shit everywhere.


Note: I am not brelvi or wahabi or shia or ahl e hadith or any other thing. I am muslim. I will accept what is right and reject what is wrong. So i dont pray to graves but visit my ancestors grave for surah fatiha. I pray only to Allah like Wahabis but i am not full of hate like them and don't kill people like them, I absolutely love Ahlul Bait and Hazrat hussain like shias but i dont beat myself or injure myself like them. I am a muslim, i will take what is right and reject what is wrong. And i don't like ibn e taymiya bcz of his personal enmity and biased-ness towards hazrat Ali RA.

Since you are not interested in a debate on this forum so i am stoping this debate bcz of the rules you are talking about.

May Allah guide both of us.

I really admire molana ishaq of faisalabad, he was a wise and neutral person.

Because they hug and things they say it start looking they are asking for things from that Black Box known as Kaba and Maqam e Ibrahim. Yes both strutctures are loved by Muslims but they themselves can't either bring harm nor give anything. People over their go beyond limits and have to be warned . As for mobile phones go first know what is meant by bidat than talk. This question of mobiles and laptops is most stupid question and shows that you have no idea about bidat. Yes so called Wahabi follow Quran and Sunnah and Kharji don't. You are trying to defend bidat and when so called salafis point out that it's bidat than those following bidat start crying and accusing instead of leaving bidat.
As for Imam Hussain RA I am sorry but their are thousands of things which are not told and false things are spread. If Imam Hussain was against Yazeed than for your information several Sahabas had done bait of Yazeed, if yazeed would have been that corrupt these Sahabas would have never done his bait. These Sahabas had spent their entire lives fighting for ALLAH they weren't afraid of Sahadat.

 

[LfcRed]

If it is allowed then why they place a guy near maqaam e ibrahim (my own experience) to tell everyone that its haram and shirk? Why when someone hugs kabaa they call Astaghfirullah Astaghfirullah? Did sahabas use mobile phone or laptops or even cars? Why your bidat is a good bidat and others bidat is a bad bidat? And every other sect is kafir and must be killed ? Why most of the terrorist groups are wahabis? And can you tell me the difference between a wahabi and a kharji? And why do you guys call Hazrat Hussain a rebel and Yazid lanat ullah illeh as your caliph?

Not fighting you, just asking you. And wahabis stop this takfir shit everywhere.


Note: I am not brelvi or wahabi or shia or ahl e hadith or any other thing. I am muslim. I will accept what is right and reject what is wrong. So i dont pray to graves but visit my ancestors grave for surah fatiha. I pray only to Allah like Wahabis but i am not full of hate like them and don't kill people like them, I absolutely love Ahlul Bait and Hazrat hussain like shias but i dont beat myself or injure myself like them. I am a muslim, i will take what is right and reject what is wrong. And i don't like ibn e taymiya bcz of his personal enmity and biased-ness towards hazrat Ali RA.

Since you are not interested in a debate on this forum so i am stoping this debate bcz of the rules you are talking about.

May Allah guide both of us.

I really admire molana ishaq of faisalabad, he was a wise and neutral person.

Brother your approach as to what is bid'ah or not is a bit off. First of all, as I imagine that you are a well informed person and when we speak about innovation in religion, it is innovation in religious matters opposed to using mobile phone or driving a car which is a baseless argument. The religion has been sealed since the time of the prophet and no new things can be introduced in 'religion'. We follow the example of the prophet and then the example of the rightly guided companions.

Secondly, the answer to your question is Yes it is an innovation or Bid'ah to touch Ka'baa or kiss it in order to seek closeness to Allah especially during tawaf. This is not proven by the prophet or his companions and whatever has been left in ibada by him should be left as well. He was the best of the people and he didnt do it was a proper sign to avoid it as well. The prophet only touched the yemeni corner and the black stone during tawaf and this is what is proven from him. Tawaf is part of Ibada and a matter of religion to which we cannot add anything without the consequence being added to it as well. If someone cannot touch it due to the issues these days is excused from it as we know the consequence to it and is excusable.

As for kissing the maqam e Ebrahim box is also an innovation and not even a part of religion. Cannot even be considered as a good deed and a useless thing to do. The prophet avoided any and everything from which shaitaan can find ways to distract a muslim unless he starts worshipping the Ka'baa instead of Allah and the foot marks of Ebrahim instead of sunnah of the prophet.

Lastly, the concept of reciting fatiha on graves is an innovation in itself. If you would know the meaning of what you are reciting over the graves you will never do that. When you recite fatiha you are asking for yourself instead. Visiting graves is a good thing it softens the heart and reminds one of death and there is also no harm in praying from Allah for the forgiveness of the person whether it be at home or anywhere. But reciting fatiha is neither proved from the sunnah of the prophet or the companions nor it makes any sense if you have a little knowledge of Arabic and Quran.

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

Because they hug and things they say it start looking they are asking for things from that Black Box known as Kaba and Maqam e Ibrahim. Yes both strutctures are loved by Muslims but they themselves can't either bring harm nor give anything. People over their go beyond limits and have to be warned . As for mobile phones go first know what is meant by bidat than talk. This question of mobiles and laptops is most stupid question and shows that you have no idea about bidat. Yes so called Wahabi follow Quran and Sunnah and Kharji don't. You are trying to defend bidat and when so called salafis point out that it's bidat than those following bidat start crying and accusing instead of leaving bidat.
As for Imam Hussain RA I am sorry but their are thousands of things which are not told and false things are spread. If Imam Hussain was against Yazeed than for your information several Sahabas had done bait of Yazeed, if yazeed would have been that corrupt these Sahabas would have never done his bait. These Sahabas had spent their entire lives fighting for ALLAH they weren't afraid of Sahadat.

Sorry. I cannot have a debate with the lover of Yazid lanat ullah illeh. Pray to Allah that May Allah give you the same fate which he will receive and give us the same fate which Hazrat Hussain RA will be given, If you are so sure of that lanati yazid's innocence. Wah keya baat hy wahabi duffers ki, Jannat kay jawano ka sardar bhi janati aur os ki puri family ka Qatil bhi janati, Saday jaon aap ki wahabi logic pay. Hud he kar di aap nay to. Kuch to sharam ani chahiay yazid kuttay ko defend kartay huay aap wahabion ko. I find wahabi and nusehri's the most deviant group. And to your information Kharji's also used to follow Quran, offer prayer, had long beards, and their another sign was told by Rasool SAW that they will kill other muslims just like your wahabi brothers are doing and i see no difference between wahabis and kharjis. Molana tariq jameel is an exception. Almost every muslim terrorist group is wahabi, that tells the whole story of your deviant sect, the killer of muslims.

Wahabi idiots dont know that no body pray from that black box, that's just means you are not performing sajda on carpet but to the carpet. lolz. Plz dont kiss and hug your childern bcz thats also shirk then by your logic. If i am kissing kabaa then who gave you the authority to tell me that i am asking something from that black box, do you wahabis read hearts and minds of everybody. What a bogus and bullshit ideology you wahabis have, the lovers of yazid lanat ullah illeh.

 

[Zarvan]

Sorry. I cannot have a debate with the lover of Yazid lanat ullah illeh. Pray to Allah that May Allah give you the same fate which he will receive and give us the same fate which Hazrat Hussain RA will be given, If you are so sure of that lanati yazid's innocence. Wah keya baat hy wahabi duffers ki, Jannat kay jawano ka sardar bhi janati aur os ki puri family ka Qatil bhi janati, Saday jaon aap ki wahabi logic pay. Hud he kar di aap nay to. Kuch to sharam ani chahiay yazid kuttay ko defend kartay huay aap wahabion ko. I find wahabi and nusehri's the most deviant group. And to your information Kharji's also used to follow Quran, offer prayer, had long beards, and their another sign was told by Rasool SAW that they will kill other muslims just like your wahabi brothers are doing and i see no difference between wahabis and kharjis. Molana tariq jameel is an exception. Almost every muslim terrorist group is wahabi, that tells the whole story of your deviant sect, the killer of muslims.

Wahabi idiots dont know that no body pray from that black box, that's just means you are not performing sajda on carpet but to the carpet. lolz. Plz dont kiss and hug your childern bcz thats also shirk then by your logic. If i am kissing kabaa then who gave you the authority to tell me that i am asking something from that black box, do you wahabis read hearts and minds of everybody. What a bogus and bullshit ideology you wahabis have, the lovers of yazid lanat ullah illeh.

You go and first do research before talking thrash I am no lover of Yazeed but I bother to do research not act like people like you. Several Sahabas had done bait of Yazeed he wasn' t that corrupt as promoted and lied about. So bother to do research before talking. Mr as for Yazeed I don't weather he would be in heaven or not but he was part of that lashkar who Hazoor SAW predicted would go to heaven. The laskar which attacked contastinople .Many do if you don't know that I can do nothing about that many start asking Kaba to reward them . What you think those who do Sajdas to grave here won't do this . Those bidat the bidat which is worse than known sins and leads to hell calling Wahabis who follow nothing but Quran and Sunnah is is irony and shows ignorance of those calling wahabi idiots. But those following bidat will keep defending bidat and Haram @Baloch Pakistani