Retooling Pakistani Military

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Again and again iam say that Don't compare Pakistan with Middel eastren countries Pakistan is pakistan it is in South asia not in middle east.!!!!!! I AM DECLARING IT NOW... EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT. But we have this problem what is the salution you tell me the solution?????????? Any one tell me the solution??????

The comparison rose because you claimed that money is the sole reason why Israel is well educated and is ahead in research and development. Solution? The answeris simple
invest a good part of resource in building institutions, institutions that last and will be niche and will be top in their respective fields, but when you do that you will face opposition as to whether your country needs such institutions and depends on how much you can stand towards critisizms and proceed.

 

[JK!]

Get this i am not against ISAEL but i say we stand better. Look at their population size look at the amount of money they get. Look at who supports them look at where are we. Look at our population look at envirment we live in? look at how much money do we have? every thing cost money even if your need to take your national resorces like gas, oil anything you name it .We can't force anyone to do business with us but they can because USA policy makers even debate in their elections how benifitial a president hopey will be to israel. And on the otherside You know what iam trying to say atleast i hope lol

Now thats an analysis I can agree with.

 

[MastanKhan]

Moha,

You are going round and round in circles---pakistan had the oppurtunity to become an indutrialized nation in the 50's---it chose to stay an agriculture based nation by choice---mercedes offered to bulid a truck plant in the early 50's---pakistan refused it---they went to india---other european countries wanted to establish technical base inpakistan in the 50's pakistan refused it or didnot show inerest---they all went to india---pakistan wanted to stay an agricultural contry---read history of pakistan.

The problem with us is that we donot have visionaries---we are a people endowed with short sightedness---what do you call a nation and its people who burn their own nation and its wealth, when Norway prints a disrespectful caricature of our prophet---would any sane people do it to their country---we have made it so easy for the enemy---it can now destroy us just by making insults to our prophet and Qura'an---and we will get start burning and tearing apart our nation---the more the insults, the more the destruction we will enforce upon us---is it due to a lack of education---no it is not---it is due to a lack of following the proper fundamentals---there is something wrong with our structural foundations---we are living a lie---that is why we are falling down after every few steps that we take.

Most of the crimes are committed by our very educated and well off people---it is not the poor or the uneducated who have destroyed the infrastructure.

Trust me on this---if we were given that much money---we would have plundered it on wine woman drugs political instability ---Asti computer comapny chairman went to pakistan in early 2000's to start a computer manufacturing plant---the minister to give the permit is known to have stated ---'sir', what are you wasting your time on this thing---let us put up a juice factory---we both will make money---.

Maybe you are not familiar with the u s history and the attitude of american presidents or you have not many american friends---u s presidents till the late 50's had no love lost for israel---the good american christian hated the the israeli jew and the american jew as well---in the 50's the american govt realized that the arabs are a pice of turd---enough is enough---they changed their alliances because israel provided them information into the soviet russia---israel provided them with scientists and engineers and new ideas in technology---they realized that the arabs were a part of the losing cause. In the last 10 years the the american christian churches have aligned with the jews to fight the muslims---so who would get the money---.

The problem with your argument that we will be as good as israel if we had the same money is meaningless and holds no water---reason being---this world is not for the wannabees---the world is for the doers who donot need an excuse to be successful---the world is for the people who take pride in their achievements---world is for the people who want to stand tall amongst other men---world is for the people who want to have their identity and signature left on the civilization---world is for the people who want to benefit mankind.

Did we just not have our oppurtunity---just now---we have just now squandered most of it.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Succinct , clear, objective, broad minded analysis sir, hats off to you. However I think Pakistan has a potential to be a developed nation. The very notion that democracy still survives albeit an unstable one despite several internal and external problems point to the potential your nation holds. In this regard I would like to add some more sir. I think Pakistanis must me more nationalsitic rather be Islamic.I mean give nationalism more importance than whats happening in Iraq or Chechenya or what America is doing to ME, focus on your nation building rather then others problems. I fail to realise why Pakistanis hate I srael so much, has Israel harmed you, or have they bombed you or have they hated you, then why should you not have proper relations just because they bomb lebanon or syria , I fail to understand why lebenese or palestinina problems be more imortant then your own diplomacy. I pointed out Israel because I wanted to highlight as to why should you sacrifice for other nations or other groups rather then focussing on building institutions .
Just my two cents sir

 

[moha199]

Moha,
Maybe you are not familiar with the u s history and the attitude of american presidents or you have not many american friends---u s presidents till the late 50's had no love lost for israel---the good american christian hated the the israeli jew and the american jew as well---in the 50's the american govt realized that the arabs are a pice of turd---enough is enough---they changed their alliances because israel provided them information into the soviet russia---israel provided them with scientists and engineers and new ideas in technology---they realized that the arabs were a part of the losing cause. In the last 10 years the the american christian churches have aligned with the jews to fight the muslims---so who would get the money---.QUOTE]Just let me clear one thing lol i have alot of friends who are 3rd to 4th generation american then Pakistanis since i live in connecticut greenwich. If you know the area i will agree there might be not even 7-10 muslim or non born american families here. It was rude of you to act like this but its ok... I still love you since you are Pakistani. Israel was created i belive in 1948 we were created in 1947. What we had when we got seperated from india nothing not even a proper goverment. Our people were widly untouch by education in 1947 since we had no approch or weren't touched to education just like Cristens in Pakistan! don't take me wrong i am talking about majority not all. On the other side Israel was created in 1948. Jew from all over the world come to israel and if you know the history israel majority of educated jews from all over the world. Does it click anything.... hopefully it did. We came that long 68 years and where do we stand dispite the fact we were bunch of uneducated people in begining. How can you compare Israel with Pakistan. Did they ever get sanctioned!!!! how much we were sanctioned in 1990s Pakistan was the most sanctioned nation on earth go see UN reports. Still we are alot better you talk about our most educated people has harmed Pakistan then uneducated people i totally agree with you on this but still we are Way batter we are leading muslim world you agree on it or no. American hated jews in 50's true. Israel provided America alot of support in different means its also true i totally agree but look at the facts insted of turning blind eye on the fact ISRAEL had part of the cream of world since the day she was born on the otherside Pakistan ......... lol you should know the answer. Brother we can't change the Past we can change the future. What i say work with the world get their help since all the countries has taken help from eachothers. You name me one country which did everything without anyones help Ill tell you NONE. What we need to do is get alot of bussiness from the world not like call centers which can be closed tomorrow since its not a infrastructure its just out sourcing bussiness nothing more than this. We need to make education free and mandatory for every person in Pakistan Which means spend alot of money on education which Pakistani goverment can not afford right now hopfully in near future but i am talking about now. If you have that amount of money then please spend on Pakistan Allah will give you jaza lol lmao. Bro you tell me the solution on this how we can work it out. What resorces do we have and we can practice them here name them and put it instead of disagreeing with me on every point. Fine i might be the dumb one or short vision or no vision person since you are claiming to be the one then give us solution. I still stand by one thing we have nothing to learn militarly from ISRAEL none lol hope you get this again no hard feeling i still have respect for everyones views.

 

[moha199]

Succinct , clear, objective, broad minded analysis sir, hats off to you. However I think Pakistan has a potential to be a developed nation. The very notion that democracy still survives albeit an unstable one despite several internal and external problems point to the potential your nation holds. In this regard I would like to add some more sir. I think Pakistanis must me more nationalsitic rather be Islamic.I mean give nationalism more importance than whats happening in Iraq or Chechenya or what America is doing to ME, focus on your nation building rather then others problems. I fail to realise why Pakistanis hate I srael so much, has Israel harmed you, or have they bombed you or have they hated you, then why should you not have proper relations just because they bomb lebanon or syria , I fail to understand why lebenese or palestinina problems be more imortant then your own diplomacy. I pointed out Israel because I wanted to highlight as to why should you sacrifice for other nations or other groups rather then focussing on building institutions .
Just my two cents sir

I totally agree with you brother i mean we can learn from india how they have injected nationalism in India in just a short time or 25 to 30 years where we failed to do so. I don't hate israel but i say we have nothing to learn from them in militarly field especially in Pakistan. Second their are reasons for Pakistanis to hate israel to be honest with you since they have planed to destroy Kahota plant. They are the 2nd biggest supplier to India in arms after i guess russia.But i disgree with alot of people on acting all emotional over israel just because its israel. lol I say learn from entire world but look at the threats aswell don't forget the history because it will repeat itself unless you will submite yourself to it. Their is strong feeling in Pakistani GOVERMENT that israel is also behind terrorism in Pakistan with couple other nations. That is all i have to say but you are right we should work on nationalism strongly and help the world in order to get some help from them aswell. Help could be in any form it could be investment, aid, infrastructure. !!!!!!!!

 

[Iceman]

Everyone obviously has their own angel of looking at any subject. So wont really put an absolute word here. but what about Retooling Pakistan Army?????????

 

[moha199]

Everyone obviously has their own angel of looking at any subject. So wont really put an absolute word here. but what about Retooling Pakistan Army?????????

Ask those who has started debating over this Israeli thingi over this forum lol its funny bro But its all good i guess this thread has been lost by now !!!!! i would ask you to change the course thanks..........

 

[su-47]

Israel's success is not due to american aid alone, but rather the fact that the sraelis are very efficient. i'd put them as one of the most efficient nations on earth. despite being surrounded by enemies and being constantly subject to terrorism, they have thrived.

when israel was formed in 1948, it had to immediately fight what it called the independance war with the arabs, who seriously outnumbered them, and the israleis lost a good percentage of their population. most of the jews who came over from europe were the beaten up ones who had managed to escape the holocaust and had no money. the land of israel itself was barren and had no oil and was not suitable for agricultural purposes. and yet they utilised the little money they had, started greenhouses and other agricultural innovations, all the while fending off the arabs. its only in the late 50s that USA started looking at israel as a potential ally.

israel is where it is right now thanks to their efficiency. they actually did things for their nation, unlike in the subcontinent where politicians nly care for themselves.

 

[MastanKhan]

Iceman,

Ineed re-tooling the pakistani millitary should be foremost.

Let us talk about pak millitary---let us talk about the hair issue---I think pak millitary personale have very long hair for a soldier---they need to take the example of the american soldiers and officers---second thing I have not been able to fathom out is ---what is the protocol of wearing 'P' cap outside in open air, under a tent, inside a building, listening to a lecture while sitting down, listening to a speech while standing up---how about the beret or the baseball type of cap---under these conditions. I see the u s millitary personale follow a certain protocol---I don't see any thing set in stone for the pak millitary.

 

[moha199]

Iceman,

Ineed re-tooling the pakistani millitary should be foremost.

Let us talk about pak millitary---let us talk about the hair issue---I think pak millitary personale have very long hair for a soldier---they need to take the example of the american soldiers and officers---second thing I have not been able to fathom out is ---what is the protocol of wearing 'P' cap outside in open air, under a tent, inside a building, listening to a lecture while sitting down, listening to a speech while standing up---how about the beret or the baseball type of cap---under these conditions. I see the u s millitary personale follow a certain protocol---I don't see any thing set in stone for the pak millitary.

lol good point!!!!!!!! lmao you are funny dude.

 

[MastanKhan]

SU,

People are clueless about the tenacity and the sense of survival of the jews. Most are clueless why the jews are where they are.

After the 2nd world war the jews needed weapons---they sent buyers out to europe to make the purchases---a buyer came back with weapons and all kind of junk and machinery---the junk was pieces of broken down weapons---the elders were mad at the man for wasting the precious currency---the explanation that he gave was---that the broken down arms would be used as spare parts for working weapons when needed----the machinery was to manufacture new parts of the weapons---the elders were left with their jaws hanging open. People assume that small arms donot need any repairs .

I am no fan of Nawaz----Nawaz is exiled in saudi arabia---he buys a steel mill machinery---gets it loaded on a ship and lands it in saudi arabia---he wants to produce steel in saudi arabia---steel the backbone of any industry---steel the backbone of a nation---steel the ultimate material in manufacturing of any weapon---the saudis traced back the origination of the machinery---found that it was surplus machinery of israeli origin---saudia does not allow anything made in israel---the steel mill was confiscated---would it not have been ironic that the steel mill would have started processing steel in saudi arabia and ultimately defence weapons and equipment was made from the steel produce by the industrial machinery made in israel---.

The time is after the death of prophet Mohammad---muslim armies are invading foreign lands---at one place they take a message of submission to a christian king---the king orders his men to humiliate the muslims by filling a container with dirt and placing the container on the head of the muslim contingent leader---his colleagues are furious and want a fight---the leader asks them to be quiet and asks them to get away fast with the dirt---when they get to a safe distance--he explains that it was a great omen and they will win the war---asked how and why---he stated that the enemy had already given them the soil of their land---the rest will be easy---tragedy and travesty isn't it---that you have a steel mill made and designed by the arch enemy and you didn't use it. What a shame?

Only if pakistan could emulate only half of what israel does---most of its problems would disappear---two nations created under similiar ideology---two nations facing similiar threats---two nations having similiar ethnic problems---one overcoming them---the other ripping each others heart out---both the nations having no problem with intellect and ingenuity---both the nations have massive pride in their armed forces---air force at the top of each nations list---both have service personale would willingly lay down their lives for the welfare of the nation---only one nation has learnt a new technique---if the enemy soldier wants to die---then let him---train harder to send more of them where they want to go in as high a number as they want to.

So, why would we not want to hear from someone who is more like us than any other nation---.

 

[Iceman]

the jew issue goes on and on .. let us talk about two things in Parallel here ...
P Cap is only with ceremonial dresses now .... outside in the open air, wear it till the time the senior most does not say . remove it ... inside the hall... leave it out at the door (find it again if you can) .....and berets with everything else .... We keep normal hair .. not too long not too short .. american soldiers look like PMA cadets .. even their generals .... I have had my share of very short hair for sometime ... now its time to keep normal hair

 

[moha199]

SU,

People are clueless about the tenacity and the sense of survival of the jews. Most are clueless why the jews are where they are.

After the 2nd world war the jews needed weapons---they sent buyers out to europe to make the purchases---a buyer came back with weapons and all kind of junk and machinery---the junk was pieces of broken down weapons---the elders were mad at the man for wasting the precious currency---the explanation that he gave was---that the broken down arms would be used as spare parts for working weapons when needed----the machinery was to manufacture new parts of the weapons---the elders were left with their jaws hanging open. People assume that small arms donot need any repairs .

I am no fan of Nawaz----Nawaz is exiled in saudi arabia---he buys a steel mill machinery---gets it loaded on a ship and lands it in saudi arabia---he wants to produce steel in saudi arabia---steel the backbone of any industry---steel the backbone of a nation---steel the ultimate material in manufacturing of any weapon---the saudis traced back the origination of the machinery---found that it was surplus machinery of israeli origin---saudia does not allow anything made in israel---the steel mill was confiscated---would it not have been ironic that the steel mill would have started processing steel in saudi arabia and ultimately defence weapons and equipment was made from the steel produce by the industrial machinery made in israel---.

The time is after the death of prophet Mohammad---muslim armies are invading foreign lands---at one place they take a message of submission to a christian king---the king orders his men to humiliate the muslims by filling a container with dirt and placing the container on the head of the muslim contingent leader---his colleagues are furious and want a fight---the leader asks them to be quiet and asks them to get away fast with the dirt---when they get to a safe distance--he explains that it was a great omen and they will win the war---asked how and why---he stated that the enemy had already given them the soil of their land---the rest will be easy---tragedy and travesty isn't it---that you have a steel mill made and designed by the arch enemy and you didn't use it. What a shame?

Only if pakistan could emulate only half of what israel does---most of its problems would disappear---two nations created under similiar ideology---two nations facing similiar threats---two nations having similiar ethnic problems---one overcoming them---the other ripping each others heart out---both the nations having no problem with intellect and ingenuity---both the nations have massive pride in their armed forces---air force at the top of each nations list---both have service personale would willingly lay down their lives for the welfare of the nation---only one nation has learnt a new technique---if the enemy soldier wants to die---then let him---train harder to send more of them where they want to go in as high a number as they want to.

So, why would we not want to hear from someone who is more like us than any other nation---.

It looks like you are so fasinated and empressed by Israel lol i guess its time for me to take off my gloves and shake you a little lol it might tickel but don't get mad lol lmao.
I will go on Israel 1st then Pakistan.
Israel was created In 14 may 1948 but the Zionist settelers started to settle in Palestine were in 1881 know as first aliyahs mostly from europ and most of them were regular people. second settelers were sent to palestine from1904-1914 and most of them were educated and politically highly educated ( read some arab history don't just search on internet alone or western history alone study bothsides to understand what is the story and be the judge. These people were totally backed by England. America wan't in a big picture at that time for your kind information. English and American totally backed Israel from the start since it was their idea to creat Israel on the other side India and Pakistan was taken by people force meaning against the English wish they had no choice. Owell Arabs attacked israel in the same year of her creation 1948 and that war lasted almost a year in which The entire UN was against Arabs ( which shows the entire world was with Israel from the begaining beside muslim world) Israeli fought bravly with arabs. Israeli women even gave out their lipsticks covers to army to change the metal which hold the lipstick in into bullit shell amazing and they repeated the same in arab israel in 1967 war they Question come into my mind that how did they do this i mean they would have to have some factory from begaing to do the job and guess what reports show that they did watch documentries about israel. The even played dirty tactics with USA in 6 days war by attacking US navy war ship with un marked fighter jets in the hope of blaming arabs for the attack and drage USA into direct conflict but it was uncoverd right away by americans and they decided to stayout of it but still supporting ISRAEL this was released by CIA last year as of open classified filed after the classified time was over on this file. Dam if Pakistan would do this to USA we would have been bombed to stone age isn't it!!!?
PAKISTAN Pakistan was attacked in 1948 aswell like Israel. When Pakistan was seperated she was not a full working goverment since most of the Goverment infrastructure was in dehli not in Pakistan the british indian capital was dehli not pakistani city most of the work of british infrastructureal work was done in INDIA not in PAKISTAN we were the most sanctioned nation on earth in 1990's which means the entire world was against us. We were broken in 1971 in which alot of countries played their role. We were always challenged by numerece big powers of the world unlike ISRAEL all the big powers were on her side. We were Used in 80's and they made sure we pay in 90's by sanctions. We are being used right now by the best mind of this world but they are making sure that we pay everything on their interests but we still manage to skip couple of billions to spend on our country. But on the other side Israel have the open hand i say this again and again Why wouldn't they be powerfull since they have being pamperd by world powers on the other side we are getting our butt kicked by big power but still we are here facing all the challenges. Israel have enemies all over her but then her friends are allover arabs in a way but Pakistan has to worry about india whose population is 1.2 billion almost meaning 1200 millions and pakistan 168 millions the maximam then we have americans we had russians. we had and now again have afganis also as of threat. Now Terrorist on our ***** if we try to disobey world powers we are threatend by nukes or by your nukes are not safe we will take them out
on the other hand Israel can sunk USA navy carriar in 1967 to bring USA directly into war but get away with this. If we had done the same we would off been bombed by now...... Israel is the most educated country because their orthodex jews study in USA in tamples and also supponsered by tamples or rich jews to study on higher levels i see them here i talk to them.!!!!!!!! Where we Pakistanis has taken over Yellow cab of NY thats it. These Jews then go back to Israel and teach Israeli kids in schools where we Pakistanis don't even get alot of student visa's so how can we improve Studies abroad and in Pakistan we are not able to creat a system to make Hight school free for every Pakistani because of money if Our leaders act good they can improve Pakistan's position in bussiness so we can afford to built schools allover country and make it free totally free like Israel America etc but the funny thing is we are still doing very well. With all these ristrictions corrupt politicians leaders internal threats external threats especially threats of going back to stone age from the bigest of the bigest giants of this world we are still standing. Israel has done very well you can say they worked for it plus they were supported by world and you can also say they did well on their side because they had no ristrictions but Pakistan did. And if we were given the same chances as Israel didand if we were helped the same way as israel was!!! We would off done the way better job then Israel i belive in this

 

[JK!]

I think the trouble with retooling the Pakistan army for WoT and COIN operations is that the strategic situation with India will always remain.

Rather than buy small arms and MRAPs last time round they bought more SPGs and F16s to defend the nation from the strategic threat.