Retired Uighur PLA soldier taking care of his fellow Uighur fallen PLA comerades for 47 years

[beijingwalker]

Traditional Uighur tombs

 

[Tom99]

Yes Muslim graves can't be made high like that...we mostly have flat graves ...

Your "we" are not uyghurs. Muslim cultures are not monolithic. Different Muslim culture grew and flourish differently in differently region/country.

Abakh Khoja Tomb, Kashgar, Xinjiang

Ancient Muslim burial tombs. Turpan, Xinjiang Province, Northwest China

Old Uyghur tombs in Kashgar, Xinjiang, China

I won't know what to say maybe and hopefully it is a cultural or a state problem

It is not a cultural or state problem. It is biased/ignorance problem. Some posters here have a closed minded view that their Muslim way is the only Muslim way. And they would use this mindset to attack others, China in this case.

If China didn't respect these heroes that have fought, protected and gave their lives for their countries they wouldn't have this well-build cemetery for them. And the fact they have kept them in such good state for so long, and not the broken down and dilapidated cemetery in other countries.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

I wouldn't know it is up to the members to tell us where and what.

As for this topic it is sensitive and thus needs to be handled sensitively...by being abusive and aggressive nothing will work


Yes Muslim graves can't be made high like that...we mostly have flat graves ...I won't know what to say maybe and hopefully it is a cultural or a state problem

We ad Muslims know that those who are oblivious won't understand

Well in kpk, what I know is that the graves have to be a certain height. Also its haram to have them made material that lasts along time. Like marble and stuff. Rocks are fine cause they eventually sink down with the earth, but using cement and marble is not.

I believe it's like that for the rest of the muslim world, including all of Pakistan, because all the graves are the same

 

[Dubious]

Your "we" are not uyghurs.

I was talking about WE as in Muslims in general (stop reading what you like and trying asking /questioning. I know it is not common in China but it is common way in the rest of the world)...We have certain things which are ascribed by the book or the Prophet! Like for Chinese things by the state are consistent and cant be challenged!

And yes culture differs...And that is why I put the next sentence

I dont know what to say maybe and hopefully it is a cultural or a state problem

Wonder why you splited the next part of the post?!

It is not a cultural or state problem. It is biased/ignorance problem. Some posters here have a closed minded view that their Muslim way is the only Muslim way. And they would use this mindset to attack others, China in this case

You see ISLAM is a deen (lifestyle)...it isnt ONLY about worship but also includes what to eat, wear and even how to be buried! So these things are universal hence makes us one!

Other things differ, height of the grave and shapes on top of the graves!

I believe the ignorance of such a basic thing is on your part! Before calling anyone ignorant please have a good look in the mirror, you never know you are the ignorant one!

If China didn't respect these heroes that have fought, protected and gave their lives for their countries they wouldn't have this well-build cemetery for them. And the fact they have kept them in such good state for so long, and not the broken down and dilapidated cemetery in other countries.

So questioning turns on your defending stance so far that despite being ignorant you call others ignorant?

Lovely! I have seen this trait in ALL Chinese members, it no longer surprises me!

Also its haram to have them made material that lasts along time. Like marble and stuff. Rocks are fine cause they eventually sink down with the earth, but using cement and marble is no

I have not heard it is haram...just can't be for show...rest is up to you actually

Your "we" are not uyghurs. Muslim cultures are not monolithic. Different Muslim culture grew and flourish differently in differently region/country.

Abakh Khoja Tomb, Kashgar, Xinjiang

Ancient Muslim burial tombs. Turpan, Xinjiang Province, Northwest China

Old Uyghur tombs in Kashgar, Xinjiang, China

It is not a cultural or state problem. It is biased/ignorance problem. Some posters here have a closed minded view that their Muslim way is the only Muslim way. And they would use this mindset to attack others, China in this case.

If China didn't respect these heroes that have fought, protected and gave their lives for their countries they wouldn't have this well-build cemetery for them. And the fact they have kept them in such good state for so long, and not the broken down and dilapidated cemetery in other countries.

I suggest you read up about Islam before you comment any further

 

[Tom99]

I was talking about WE as in Muslims in general (stop reading what you like and trying asking /questioning. I know it is not common in China but it is common way in the rest of the world)...We have certain things which are ascribed by the book or the Prophet! Like for Chinese things by the state are consistent and cant be challenged!

Lets not sidetrack and keep on topic here, we are talking about burial graves. There are even different type of burial method and grave types within Pakistani Muslims, and there are certain differences between these methods in different Muslim countries. The problem is that some posters takes thess differences and ignorantly attack China with it.

And yes culture differs...And that is why I put the next sentence
"I won't know what to say maybe and hopefully it is a cultural or a state problem"

I don't see culture differences between Muslim in different states as a "problem" as you do.

You see ISLAM is a deen (lifestyle)...it isnt ONLY about worship but also includes what to eat, wear and even how to be buried! So these things are universal hence makes us one!

No, simply no. One example, there are no universal wears for all Muslims. Muslims in Pakistan clothes different than those in Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Malaysia..etc.

Other things differ, height of the grave and shapes on top of the graves!

And yet you said "Yes Muslim graves can't be made high like that."

I believe the ignorance of such a basic thing is on your part! Before calling anyone ignorant please have a good look in the mirror, you never know you are the ignorant one!

Please tell me what I am ignorant of? We talk about graves here and I said there are different graves types between different Muslim cultures and I have shown you the pictures of Uyghur burials which indicates that.

So questioning turns on your defending stance so far that despite being ignorant you call others ignorant?

Again, tell me what I am ignorant of? Regarding these burials if I am wrong then I am willing correct my understanding.

I suggest you read up about Islam before you comment any further

Again, stay on topic, we are talking about burial graves here. Can you please show me some source to indicate those brave Uyghur soldiers that fought and died for China have the wrong Muslim burial? And that somehow "they arent spared even in death" because of it as by another poster?

Well in kpk, what I know is that the graves have to be a certain height. Also its haram to have them made material that lasts along time. Like marble and stuff. Rocks are fine cause they eventually sink down with the earth, but using cement and marble is not.

I believe it's like that for the rest of the muslim world, including all of Pakistan, because all the graves are the same

All the graves are the same? Obvious not, look at these Muslim graves in Malaysia and Indonesia then compares to what you see in Pakistan. I see different shape, height, width, material(including marble and cement), colour..etc.

Muslim Islamic graves tombstones at cemetery behind Pink State Mosque Kuching Malaysia

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/kuc...veyard-located-behind-old-state-132807208.jpg


A Muslim graveyard, cemetery in Pekanbaru, Indonesia.

 

[Brainsucker]

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/kuc...veyard-located-behind-old-state-132807208.jpg

To my eyes, I see that they don't respected their dead in this picture. Look at those graves, looks abandoned. But who am I to judge them in this regard? I see it from my Chinese cultural tradition. While they're surely not Chinese. So it's my fault if I force my own value to judge them.

 

[Dubious]

Lets not sidetrack and keep on topic here, we are talking about burial graves. There are even different type of burial method and grave types within Pakistani Muslims, and there are certain differences between these methods in different Muslim countries. The problem is that some posters takes thess differences and ignorantly attack China with it.

Burial methods don't differ...because they were prescribed to us.

The graves might differ yes.....mostly for cultural reasons...overall the grave is recommended to be flat

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

I was talking about WE as in Muslims in general (stop reading what you like and trying asking /questioning. I know it is not common in China but it is common way in the rest of the world)...We have certain things which are ascribed by the book or the Prophet! Like for Chinese things by the state are consistent and cant be challenged!

And yes culture differs...And that is why I put the next sentence


Wonder why you splited the next part of the post?!


You see ISLAM is a deen (lifestyle)...it isnt ONLY about worship but also includes what to eat, wear and even how to be buried! So these things are universal hence makes us one!

Other things differ, height of the grave and shapes on top of the graves!

I believe the ignorance of such a basic thing is on your part! Before calling anyone ignorant please have a good look in the mirror, you never know you are the ignorant one!

So questioning turns on your defending stance so far that despite being ignorant you call others ignorant?

Lovely! I have seen this trait in ALL Chinese members, it no longer surprises me!


I have not heard it is haram...just can't be for show...rest is up to you actually



I suggest you read up about Islam before you comment any further

I'm not sure, it's just what I have been told. I dont see people doing it though so there might be some truth

 

[Dubious]

I don't see culture differences between Muslim in different states as a "problem" as you do.

We are told to be humble and death is the ending if we can't be humble then ...It is a problem. To dust we will return is one of the sayings many of us understand and another thing is making large tombs is space consuming and expensive while flat ones is common and sign of humbleness....but like I said it maybe cultural to have it large and showy.

In context yes it is a problem. You don't see it...It is not for me to show. Any Muslim will agree or at least understand.

The problem I talked about is restricted to this issue not every cultural differences please don't modify my msg

I'm not sure, it's just what I have been told. I dont see people doing it though so there might be some truth

I actually have seen tombs in white marble...so I am not sure and plus hearsay shouldn't be passed around until confirmed.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Lets not sidetrack and keep on topic here, we are talking about burial graves. There are even different type of burial method and grave types within Pakistani Muslims, and there are certain differences between these methods in different Muslim countries. The problem is that some posters takes thess differences and ignorantly attack China with it.


I don't see culture differences between Muslim in different states as a "problem" as you do.



No, simply no. One example, there are no universal wears for all Muslims. Muslims in Pakistan clothes different than those in Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Malaysia..etc.



And yet you said "Yes Muslim graves can't be made high like that."



Please tell me what I am ignorant of? We talk about graves here and I said there are different graves types between different Muslim cultures and I have shown you the pictures of Uyghur burials which indicates that.



Again, tell me what I am ignorant of? Regarding these burials if I am wrong then I am willing correct my understanding.



Again, stay on topic, we are talking about burial graves here. Can you please show me some source to indicate those brave Uyghur soldiers that fought and died for China have the wrong Muslim burial? And that somehow "they arent spared even in death" because of it as by another poster?



All the graves are the same? Obvious not, look at these Muslim graves in Malaysia and Indonesia then compares to what you see in Pakistan. I see different shape, height, width, material(including marble and cement), colour..etc.

Muslim Islamic graves tombstones at cemetery behind Pink State Mosque Kuching Malaysia

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/kuc...veyard-located-behind-old-state-132807208.jpg


A Muslim graveyard, cemetery in Pekanbaru, Indonesia.

Top one isnt, cause that looks ancient. The bottom one is the same.

 

[Dubious]

No, simply no. One example, there are no universal wears for all Muslims. Muslims in Pakistan clothes different than those in Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Malaysia..etc.

Maybe I wasn't clear. What I meant by what to wear:
No where in the Quran does it say wear a cheongsam or a baju kurung but it says cover fully...so what to wear is based on the conditions not on what the end product looks like

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

We are told to be humble and death is the ending if we can't be humble then ...It is a problem. To dust we will return is one of the sayings many of us understand and another thing is making large tombs is space consuming and expensive while flat ones is common and sign of humbleness....but like I said it maybe cultural to have it large and showy.

In context yes it is a problem. You don't see it...It is not for me to show. Any Muslim will agree or at least understand.

The problem I talked about is restricted to this issue not every cultural differences please don't modify my msg


I actually have seen tombs in white marble...so I am not sure and plus hearsay shouldn't be passed around until confirmed.

Well that's exactly what's told not to do. Simply put graves are supposed to wither away with time and Islamic texts refer to that. That's why many people are buried in the same spot because after awhile the grave wither away and a new one can be made. The rule also makes sense because more sturdy materials mean longer lasting graves and it turns them into shrines in a sense, which is absolutely haram.

 

[Dubious]

And yet you said "Yes Muslim graves can't be made high like that."

There is a difference between height and high like that...I said we don't ...of it is made what can one do?

Well that's exactly what's told not to do. Simply put graves are supposed to wither away with time and Islamic texts refer to that. That's why many people are buried in the same spot because after awhile the grave wither away and a new one can be made. The rule also makes sense because more sturdy materials mean longer lasting graves and it turns them into shrines in a sense, which is absolutely haram.

Well nome of the Sahara graves are withered away even Prophets grave is made high....The ordering in my opinion was prob on limited land...read the ruling in context (we always forget the context)....but people have made association with dead relatives ...they won't let it whither away

Please tell me what I am ignorant of? We talk about graves here and I said there are different graves types between different Muslim cultures and I have shown you the pictures of Uyghur burials which indicates that.

The grave may differ in style based on the culture but in Islam large graves are forbidden to discouraged

Again, tell me what I am ignorant of? Regarding these burials if I am wrong then I am willing correct my understanding.

Read up about basic Islamic burial ...

I have learnt not to teach Chinese members it is a waste of time...of one is interested and really wants to learn, he /she should do their own backup reading. I can only provide further information but not basics. Because if one has no interest (I am not talking about you but in general ) no amount of teaching will help

Again, stay on topic, we are talking about burial graves here. Can you please show me some source to indicate those brave Uyghur soldiers that fought and died for China have the wrong Muslim burial? And that somehow "they arent spared even in death" because of it as by another poster?

I am not saying they are wrong...unusual yes. You on the other hand should show us that they were honored Islamically

 

[beijingwalker]

Again, stay on topic, we are talking about burial graves here. Can you please show me some source to indicate those brave Uyghur soldiers that fought and died for China have the wrong Muslim burial? And that somehow "they arent spared even in death" because of it as by another poster?

I visited some US war cemeteries, all deseased soldiers and officers were buried same way, regardless of their race, religions and background, cause they all fought and died for US.

Also, not all Uighurs are Muslims, many of them joined the communist party.

 

[obj 705A]

Xinjiang is lucky to be part of China.
too bad though for Mongolia because its not ruled by the Chinese now, if it becomes part of China again then it will rise & prosper.