Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

[PradoTLC]

Bhai kya pee kay aye ho aj .

it is called research... try it

Indians will dangle the NGF carrot in front of them like they did to Swedes and French along with Ruskies.

Geo politics have changed.

 

[Beast]

Not really … tell us one recent fighter deal using using pure Chinese design ? ( JF17 is excluded )

Russian further signed contracts with India and Egypt as an example.

J-20

You expect India to sign deal with China?

Far ahead ? …ok we going into la la land here .

You missed the point even if so true that is not the point. The important thing to know is what tech the manufacturer can bring to the product in a reliable manner.

Seriously, I do not understand what do u mean by your standard of reliably? How many Chinese plane are falling from skies compare to Russian?

Again you are the missing point.

Is China more advance over all as a manufacturer? …. Yes

Can China offer a product that has the performance of a Su57 ? …. Currently… NO

future? … sure China will outstrip even the US

J-20.

It is a well know 5th gen plane and I do not know what kind of world u are living to miss out this info?

 

[PakLeader]

AZM will be the replacement for F-16's. JF-17s will replace the F-7s and mirages. PAF will do whatever needed to maintain a qualitative edge over the IAF including buying J10c to complement the F-16s as a stop gap if it must until project AZM materializes. Russian jets are highly unlikely, so are more F-16's but they have more of a chance than Russian aircraft.

No one really knows the at what stage AZM is at. All we have are tidbits of information and the majority is mere rumour and speculation. Who is to say that PAF isn't cooperating with Turkey, China or anyone else already?

 

[PradoTLC]

I do not know what kind of world u are living to miss out this info?

the world where la la la thoughts do not exist.

cheers

It is a well know 5th gen plane

not all products are created equal

You expect India to sign deal with China?

no

but if people claim J-10 is superior or F-16 equal then why havent there been export orders?

 

[PradoTLC]

Seriously, I do not understand what do u mean by your standard of reliably? How many Chinese plane are falling from skies compare to Russian?

Russian manufacturing has much improved and they quite reliable now.

China is still behind engine tech v the Russians



"There is precedent for reverse-engineering jet engines, but while China has plenty of access to Russian jet engines, Beijing's attempts to produce its own domestic designs have been largely unsuccessful.

One of its earliest versions of a domestically designed engine, the WS-10A, regularly broke down after just 30 hours of use."

How China is trying to fix the biggest problem plaguing its fighter jets

China touts its fighter jets as symbols of military capability, but those jets have long had a major shortcoming: a lack of quality engines.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Shabi1]

the world is where la la la thoughts do not exist.

cheers



not all products are created equal


no

but if people claim J-10 is superior or F-16 equal then why havent there been export orders?

Gen Musharaf wanted PAF to buy J-10As but PAF opposed it back then.

Could be several reasons.

1. They could have but China hasn't sought re-export permission for Al-31 engines and the alternative powerplant needed time to mature.
2. Could be delivery timeline till now, China has a domestic need for J-10 for itself too and with now significant numbers inducted there is slack for export. Remember one of the reasons besides its poor thrust to weight ratio why FBC-1/JH-7 was not chosen was because it had a production run of 6 aircraft per year and again China had own orders to fill.
3. We had hoped we would be able to get F-16s, this hope prevented us buying J-10s.

 

[PradoTLC]

PAF will do whatever needed to maintain a qualitative edge over the IAF including buying J10c to complement the F-16s as a stop gap

that wont happen.. ie purchase of J-10. i have seen enough negative comments from PAF to see that as highly unlikely

Gen Musharaf wanted PAF to buy J-10As but PAF opposed it back then.

correct... J-10 had issues. ACM Latif confirm this.

3. We had hoped we would be able to get F-16s, this hope prevented us buying J-10s.

i think we would be lucky if americans sell us potato guns...


any way a good thing, we need to focus on our region and our new geo strategic partners ie Russia,

 

[khanasifm]

that wont happen.. ie purchase of J-10. i have seen enough negative comments from PAF to see that as highly unlikely


correct... J-10 had issues. ACM Latif confirm this.


i think we would be lucky if americans sell us potato guns...


any way a good thing, we need to focus on our region and our new geo strategic partners ie Russia,

Let’s wait and time will tell who knows too many rumors even fro former paf brass so let’s see

let’s say cannot confirm or deny situation at the moment but time will tell

Russian manufacturing has much improved and they quite reliable now.

China is still behind engine tech v the Russians



"There is precedent for reverse-engineering jet engines, but while China has plenty of access to Russian jet engines, Beijing's attempts to produce its own domestic designs have been largely unsuccessful.

One of its earliest versions of a domestically designed engine, the WS-10A, regularly broke down after just 30 hours of use."

How China is trying to fix the biggest problem plaguing its fighter jets

China touts its fighter jets as symbols of military capability, but those jets have long had a major shortcoming: a lack of quality engines.

www.businessinsider.com

We recently airshow at least disproved now as ws10 is type for j_xx series as well as y-20 yes production needs to be enhanced as it covers lots of types j10, 11, 16,15 and 20

 

[zhxy]

The F-16 and J-10 are good fighters. But the latest JF-17 version is not inferior to them. Mass production and continuous upgrades of the JF-17 are more beneficial in the long run. Pakistan needs to save money to invest in important projects like AZM, buying more new fighters from abroad will consume a lot of national resources.

 

[araz]

true.

but winds have changed........ India is West's new dick , and Pakistan is out of Western clutches.

Russia has no issues selling to rivals. ie Russia sells to Vietnam and China, and China and India, Iran and Iraq. and so on.


If Pakistan play's its cards well and it has done in the past, it isnt far fetched to see Russia-Pakistan high stake defense deals. such as Su-57.. one has just to look at Turkey and Russia.. Turkish F-16 shot down a Russian jet a few years ago.. and now Russia is supplying Turkey with S-400 system.. a top of the line system


US weapons will over time become obsolete , as new upgrades and additions are unlikey to come. Keep in mind it may take over over a decade before inking deals and delivery.. so from a long term perspective it isnt a issue.

I respect your point of view but it does not answer any of the concerns raised. Pakistan's destiny lies in going it's own way and making arms which are suitable for its needs. It will need to collaborate on subsystems and engines but we do have partners in the region for that. Just because Pakistan has gotten out of the Western clutches(seemingly!!! ALTHOUGH I DONT THINK THIS IS THE CASE) I do not think it wants to go and sit in Russia's lap either. We have a strategic alliance with China where our proximity and common goals have forged a time tested partnership. This needs to be worked on and exploited to mutual benefits. However, there will come a time when China will consider us a possible competitor and we need to understand this and try and stand on our own feet.
A

 

[Beast]

the world where la la la thoughts do not exist.

cheers

No thought but real fact.

not all products are created equal

Indeed, Su-57 is not on same level as J-20. Check out many study of Su-57 vs J-20 where stealth capabilities and shaping of Su-57 are much inferior with plenty of protruding parts like IRST which contributed to RCS. If some going to claim Su-57 is more agile , then tell me why canard is included for J-20? J-20 as canard design are specifically designed for close combat dogfight.

but if people claim J-10 is superior or F-16 equal then why havent there been export orders?

F-22 is never exported so it must be an inferior product? LOL..

J-10 is never heavily promoted as a export product. Dont dig out those fake western report which claim we promoted to Myanmar, Laos or Iran. So far I know, the only country China try promote export to , is Pakistan. Negotiation is still under way but chances of PAF getting J-10 are not high as JF-17 fills a very similar role to it.

The prefer fighter plane to be exported by China is always JF-17.

 

[PradoTLC]

I respect your point of view but it does not answer any of the concerns raised. Pakistan's destiny lies in going it's own way and making arms which are suitable for its needs. It will need to collaborate on subsystems and engines but we do have partners in the region for that. Just because Pakistan has gotten out of the Western clutches(seemingly!!! ALTHOUGH I DONT THINK THIS IS THE CASE) I do not think it wants to go and sit in Russia's lap either. We have a strategic alliance with China where our proximity and common goals have forged a time tested partnership. This needs to be worked on and exploited to mutual benefits. However, there will come a time when China will consider us a possible competitor and we need to understand this and try and stand on our own feet.
A

What i think doesnt matter.. what ground reality are facts.


Having a normal relationship with USA (hence the west) is going to be impossible, what they want from us we can never do (and we shouldn't) and thus we are set forth for a perptual adverisial relationship, despite the current gov best attempts to reconcile with the americans. I think IK has bent over backwards to accomodate the americans and giving some very good options such it's Economic-Security plan for the region. The fault lies 100% with americans who clearly have a sinister hidden agenda.

The Pakistan military establishment knows it and has correctly hedged it's bets ie security alliance with China and rapidly growing ties with Russia. Russia want to contain american expansion which it views it very negatively. So whether you or I like it .. doesnt matter the fact is we are heading for a polarised block. I agree we should not sit in Russian or any one's lap for that matter... but that is where it is headed.


Long term China is our partner and will be the alfa ally for us, with Russia we have a conversion of interest which we should and are exploiting ever so slowly.

Su-57 acqusition is not just weapon but a symbol of Russian alliance which mutliplies the complexity of any US decision to attack or conduct an adventure on Pakistan. India alone has no balls or skill to attack Pakistan. If Pakistan and Afganistan has peace for the next 10 years it there will be almost nothing to stop Pakistan in achieving it's rightful potential as regional economic and military power.

However, there will come a time when China will consider us a possible competitor and we need to understand this and try and stand on our own feet.
A

Unlikely we will be a competitor to China, as given our geography and resources we always be a complentary nation to their interest.

 

[Pandora]

it is called research... try it


Geo politics have changed.

It's not called research but being delusional and devoid of ground realities. Our forces have laid out a clear cut plan for future based on realistic approach.

 

[PradoTLC]

It's not called research but being delusional and devoid of ground realities. Our forces have laid out a clear cut plan for future based on realistic approach.

Cool… statement !

so assuming if you done your “research” you know they PAF usually doesn’t make stupid calls.

in the 1980s US offered the F20 but PAF declined as it did not offer short and LT defense attributes it was looking for. F16 was the right choice despite the difficulties in purchasing ie money and congressional opposition. It was over come by strong diplomatic maneuvering and funded by Saudi loan.

PAF looks ahead…

 

[Great Janjua]

The biggest challenge facing PAF when the induction will be done for J-10 aircraft is interoperability between assets, we can safely contend it will be an information overhaul when these birds land. Presently, we operate a large number of Saab's erieyes a western system alongside D-20 Falcons for better air picture so to speak, to utilize this air image we intern cultivated link 17 our very own indigenous protocol for communication between all aircraft albeit not for Americans bucks.

my sole concern is how long and how effectively this platform will be absorbed into the current air information domain. That is without needing extra Chinese solutions to provide a clutter-free digital communication void.