Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

[PradoTLC]

i want to see 5th gen as replacement j-31 will be great

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Chinese tech has some time to go before it matures.. i did say persue the Su-57 option..

 

[Riz]

Chinese tech has some time to go before it matures.. i did say persue the Su-57 option..

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Bus kar yaar nawaan kutta na khol

 

[PradoTLC]

Bus kar yaar nawaan kutta na khol

i dont think you understand.

You need a fifth generation platform... buying another 4 generation plane will not solve your problem

and yes the chinese tech have some way to go.. remind us which engine powers the JF-17?

 

[araz]

i dont think you understand.

You need a fifth generation platform... buying another 4 generation plane will not solve your problem

and yes the chinese tech have some way to go.. remind us which engine powers the JF-17?

There are significant problems going for a Russian platform. Russian supply chain always leaves a lot to be desired( at least traditionally). Secondly there will be a need to maintain a separate inventory of weapons which will be totally different to the chinese ones. This will result in more confusionand cash outlays. There is no question of upgrades and resolution of teething problems will become a headache. Lastly India still remains one of the largest importers of Russian weapons and may put pressure on Russia to not sell to Pakistan. Russia will demand cold cash which we do not have. Lastly there are issues with ?CAATSA which will bring Pakistan on US radar for sanctions. You are not yet big enough to pull through those.
A

 

[PradoTLC]

There are significant problems going for a Russian platform. Russian supply chain always leaves a lot to be desired( at least traditionally). Secondly there will be a need to maintain a separate inventory of weapons which will be totally different to the chinese ones. This will result in more confusionand cash outlays. There is no question of upgrades and resolution of teething problems will become a headache. Lastly India still remains one of the largest importers of Russian weapons and may put pressure on Russia to not sell to Pakistan. Russia will demand cold cash which we do not have. Lastly there are issues with ?CAATSA which will bring Pakistan on US radar for sanctions. You are not yet big enough to pull through those.
A

true.

but winds have changed........ India is West's new dick , and Pakistan is out of Western clutches.

Russia has no issues selling to rivals. ie Russia sells to Vietnam and China, and China and India, Iran and Iraq. and so on.


If Pakistan play's its cards well and it has done in the past, it isnt far fetched to see Russia-Pakistan high stake defense deals. such as Su-57.. one has just to look at Turkey and Russia.. Turkish F-16 shot down a Russian jet a few years ago.. and now Russia is supplying Turkey with S-400 system.. a top of the line system


US weapons will over time become obsolete , as new upgrades and additions are unlikey to come. Keep in mind it may take over over a decade before inking deals and delivery.. so from a long term perspective it isnt a issue.

 

[Pandora]

The J-10CE would takeover the role of the F-16s we never got, but intended on buying. The PAF planned on a fleet of at least 100 F-16s (potentially 150), but due to our issues with the U.S., they never got to that point. However, the PAF still has a gap resulting from not having enough F-16-class fighters. The J-10CEs would basically plug that gap. Meanwhile, I expect additional JF-17s (especially Block-3) would replace the Mirages in the various air-to-surface roles.

True J10C can complement F16 every sense but dont you think Thunders limited range restricts it in Naval role? There is no doubt Thunders are technologically superior to any aircraft in our inventory but limited range is a big handy cap if not addressed in blk 3.

 

[Pandora]

J-10 is not a solution..

i would like to 400 JF-17s Block III & and about 100 or Su-57 fifth generation planes.. that would constitute a good high low mix

SU 57 is a costly and availability rate is very low. India which was a partner in that program ditched the fighter for a good reason. Even Russia didn't opt for it in large numbers so there is also issue of economy of scale. Just one of it will cost 200 mil upwards. If Pakistan wanted an off the shelf stealth fighter it will opt for chinese bcz of excellent logistical support.

Chinese tech has some time to go before it matures.. i did say persue the Su-57 option..

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Bhai kya pee kay aye ho aj .

Chinese tech has some time to go before it matures.. i did say persue the Su-57 option..

View attachment 782314

Bhai kya pee kay aye ho aj .

 

[MIRauf]

i dont think you understand.

You need a fifth generation platform... buying another 4 generation plane will not solve your problem

and yes the chinese tech have some way to go.. remind us which engine powers the JF-17?

Ruskie RD-93 powers the JF-17, fighter-jet is designed around an engine, back then ( late 90s ) the Chinese didn't have an answer for the RD-93. At this time PAF is very satisfied with RD-93 thus one doesn't see PAF openly pursuing any other alternate ( Chinese or British ).

PS: Ruskies will not sell PAF the SU-57s, least not in time frame that would interest PAF as Indians will dangle the NGF carrot in front of them like they did to Swedes and French along with Ruskies. Unless PAF could muster up $ to purchase 150/200 of sample then in that case even France / US may bite too.

 

[MH.Yang]

or Su-57 fifth generation planes..

This means that Indians will have radar intelligence of your most advanced fighter.

 

[Beast]

Chinese tech has some time to go before it matures.. i did say persue the Su-57 option..

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Absolutely nonsense. Chinese tech especially in terms of avionics and metallurgy are far ahead of Russian. Tell me how many semi con industry or chips has Russia produced?

Look at the Chinese naval AESA warship vs Russian. And u will know the gap between Russian and China. Have u wonder why Chinese is able to land a working rover on Mars while Russia still struggle and yet to do so?

 

[araz]

true.

but winds have changed........ India is West's new dick , and Pakistan is out of Western clutches.

Russia has no issues selling to rivals. ie Russia sells to Vietnam and China, and China and India, Iran and Iraq. and so on.


If Pakistan play's its cards well and it has done in the past, it isnt far fetched to see Russia-Pakistan high stake defense deals. such as Su-57.. one has just to look at Turkey and Russia.. Turkish F-16 shot down a Russian jet a few years ago.. and now Russia is supplying Turkey with S-400 system.. a top of the line system


US weapons will over time become obsolete , as new upgrades and additions are unlikey to come. Keep in mind it may take over over a decade before inking deals and delivery.. so from a long term perspective it isnt a issue.

You have overlooked all the other aspects and concentrated on the one aspect. I think there are problems along this line of thinking. Personally I still cannot make sense of J10 purchase but for the fact that in case of sanctions/threat of sanctions we will not be left with just one platform. From a purely sens8ble management of weapons store and suppy chain, it seems more logical to stick with the Chinese while making our own inroads into the weapons market. Russia does not come into this equilibrium and China is not going to be there for long. However commonality of weapons/supply chain requires ongoing effort and contact with the Chinese. Turkey remains key to our future development ambitions as we both have something to contribute to each other's development. However the Chinese interest in Pakistan will allow us to reach out and take key subsystems from them.
We are on very interesting crossroads of our development and right stewardship for the next decade wilp result in major boost economically and financially.
A

 

[PradoTLC]

Absolutely nonsense.

Not really … tell us one recent fighter deal using using pure Chinese design ? ( JF17 is excluded )

Russian further signed contracts with India and Egypt as an example.

Chinese tech especially in terms of avionics and metallurgy are far ahead of Russian.

Far ahead ? …ok we going into la la land here .

You missed the point even if so true that is not the point. The important thing to know is what tech the manufacturer can bring to the product in a reliable manner.

Look at the Chinese naval AESA warship vs Russian. And u will know the gap between Russian and China. Have u wonder why Chinese is able to land a working rover on Mars while Russia still struggle and yet to do so?

Again you are the missing point.

Is China more advance over all as a manufacturer? …. Yes

Can China offer a product that has the performance of a Su57 ? …. Currently… NO

future? … sure China will outstrip even the US

 

[PradoTLC]

This means that Indians will have radar intelligence of your most advanced fighter.

Well then Would the same logic not apply to China as well?

China has bought S400 and so has india ? And would USA also not know. ?

The point is deterrence .. a fifth generation platform is to deter the enemy. India attacked Pakistan because it believes it had superior platform system , post 26th Feb it was deterred indefinitely. Our future enemy could possibly be the USAF as we continue to piss off the Americans.

PS: Ruskies will not sell PAF the SU-57

it all depends how we play our cards … from what I have seen that is a very real possibility

 

[PradoTLC]

Personally I still cannot make sense of J10 purchase

100% agree

J10 has issues this is something both ACM Shahid latif mentioned and the current PIA chairman stated when JF17 head to head in air exercises.

On paper J10 is superior but because JF17 based on F16 and significant inputs by PAF makes it is a very good real world performer, it has made international sales and continue to be short listed by many potential buyers.

Tejas ( wink wink )

 

[PradoTLC]

SU 57 is a costly and availability rate is very low.

as with every new system that always is the case, Russians have put it into service and have made good orders

ndia which was a partner in that program ditched the fighter for a good reason.

Yes please tell us why India opted out?

However commonality of weapons/supply chain requires ongoing effort and contact with the Chinese.

not an issue... modern manufacturing enable modular designs... besides we have been modifying planes and systems from different countries for a long time.

Just one of it will cost 200 mil upwards. If Pakistan wanted an off the shelf stealth fighter it will opt for chinese bcz of excellent logistical support.

We need a small number only ie deterance value.