Religions must be Chinese in orientation: official

[SALMAN F]

If you want to go that far back, wrong since Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) preached peacefully until the kafirs threw rocks at him.

And he only fought defensive wars not offensive

 

[Hamza913]

And he only fought defensive wars not offensive

Hey, the Americans aren't fighting a defensive war, yet you support them.

You also say that because of the Caliphate's actions we should be punished, but American shouldn't be punished for the kafirs actions against Rasullulah (Peace Be Upon Him)?

Can you smell the hypocrisy?

 

[Cherokee]

This thread has gonna way outta hand.

 

[mike2000 is back]

You should visit some websites where Uyghur extremists exists and see the way they bragged about how braveli their grandpa killing Han people.
The name of such masscre is three districts rebellion. You could ask your friends from Xinjiang or google it on the internet.

True. However it was mostly backed/supported and instigated by the Soviet Russia against the KMT(Chinese nationalist government), since Stalin wanted to reassert Soviet influence in the region like he already did in Manchuria/North East China.

as pertaining to the topic-:

adopting 'localization' could be achieved- such as not wearing headscarves and covering the hair for women, and not keeping long beards for men

I'm afraid that will be interpreted by many Muslims as anti-Islam, and the country might suffer consequences for such a policy.
Moreover , i don't see anything wrong with Chinese women wearing headscarves and Chinese Muslim men keeping beards. A full scale veil that covers the entire body from head to toes like the Burqa, yes i agree it should be banned totally(even some Muslim countries banned it) since as far as i know it's not even in the Quran so its not a religious attire just a cultural one originating from Iran if i'm not mistaken.

Pls do not use 'our'. Maybe that is your personal opinion

Actually the Pakistani member is right to some extent, Some Muslims in the middle east and even South Asia(Pakistan , Bangladesh etc) view themselves as Muslims first before their country. You can't blame them since for them Islam transcends nationality and thus rejects nationalism. The Islamic ideology is not compatible with any other ideology on the question of sovereignty over the private and social life of Muslims. A Muslim cannot at the same time be a Muslim and a polytheist, or a Muslim and communist(CCP/Soviet Union) . So in Islam, there is no room for one to be a loyal and genuine nationalist. It is a question of identity, and one negates the other.
In fact from what i have heard/red Islam has explicitly rejects the basis of nationalism, and states that language, colour and race are no criteria for unity and privilege. The only criteria are belief and virtue. So a common ideology is the basis of the unity of the Islamic ummah, not race, country, language or even culture.
This makes Islam and nationalism incompatible, since if we look at it closely, the goal of nationalism is to create national units, whereas the goal of Islam is universal unity. To nationalism what matters the most is loyalty and attachment to the homeland, whereas to Islam, it is God and religion. Nationalism gives authenticity to geographical boundaries and racial distinctions, whereas Islam negates them. Nationalism inclines to limitation and race, but Islam assumes a universal outlook. Additionally, Nationalism attaches value only to the historical traditions, culture, civilization, ideas and historical figures of its own nation, but Islam's vision goes beyond the frontier, race, tribe and nation. For example Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Ali etc are considered as belonging to all mankind not a nation/country. Islam(just like a few other religion) wishes all nations to regard the Quran as their Book, and true leaders of Islam as their leaders (mankinds).

So this is the part where both starts having conflicting views and as such this might create issues between some real practicing muslims and the state(especially if that state is not islamic or has laws that some muslims view as going against their religion and beliefs). So if a Muslim was to really follow his religion by the word, it might be difficult for him not to go against the government depending on their policies/laws.

However , its good that the vast majority of muslims (and even other religions) are adapting to a changing world, integrating into the countries they live and abiding by the laws and even being patriotic/nationalistic and showing love for their country first and foremost. We have to be realistic at times, not too superstitious.

 

[beijingwalker]

However , its good that the vast majority of muslims (and even other religions) are adapting to a changing world, integrating into the countries they live and abiding by the laws and even being patriotic/nationalistic and showing love for their country first and foremost. We have to be realistic at times, not too superstitious.

This suggestion is good, otherwise they will have endless conflicts with all other non Muslim countries in the world.

 

[Cybernetics]

True. However it was mostly backed/supported and instigated by the Soviet Russia against the KMT(Chinese nationalist government), since Stalin wanted to reassert Soviet influence in the region like he already did in Manchuria/North East China.


I'm afraid that will be interpreted by many Muslims as anti-Islam, and the country might suffer consequences for such a policy.
Moreover , i don't see anything wrong with Chinese women wearing headscarves and Chinese Muslim men keeping beards. A full scale veil that covers the entire body from head to toes like the Burqa, yes i agree it should be banned totally(even some Muslim countries banned it) since as far as i know it's not even in the Quran so its not a religious attire just a cultural one originating from Iran if i'm not mistaken.


Actually the Pakistani member is right to some extent, Many muslims in the middle east and even South Asia(Pakistan , Bangladesh etc) view themselves as muslims first before their country. You can't blame them since for them Islam transcends nationality and thus rejects nationalism. In fact from what i have heard/red Islam has explicitly rejected the basis of nationalism, and states that language, colour and race are no criteria for unity and privilege. The only criteria are belief and virtue. So a common ideology is the basis of the unity of the Islamic ummah, not race, country, language or even culture.
This makes both incompatible, since if we look at it closely, the goal of nationalism is to create national units, whereas the goal of Islam is universal unity. To nationalism what matters the most is loyalty and attachment to the homeland, whereas to Islam, it is God and religion. Nationalism gives authenticity to geographical boundaries and racial distinctions, whereas Islam negates them. Nationalism inclines to limitation and race, but Islam assumes a universal outlook. So this is the part where both starts having conflicting views and as such this might create issues between some real practicing muslims and the state(especially if that state is not islamic or has laws that muslims view as not going against their religion and beliefs). So if a muslim was to really follow his religion by the word, it might be difficult for him not to go against the government depending on their policies/laws.
However , its good that the vast majority of muslims (and even other religions) are adapting to a changing world, integrating into the countries they live and abiding by the laws and even being patriotic/nationalistic and showing love for their country first and foremost. We have to be realistic at times, not too superstitious.

China had many wars and unrest in its history, its wrong to say one particular group is responsible. The unrest in Xinjiang is an Ethnic problem and they seek cohesion and international support through religion and Jihad. Hui Muslims are victims of Uyghur violence as well because they see themselves closer to the Han. Remember when you mix people and organized religion it always ends in political religion. When societies weaken or collapse and they always come in cycles all these problems manifest in the most extreme of ways.

Tensions with Uyghurs
“We have to conquer our own country and purify it of all infidels. Then, we should conquer the infidels’ countries and spread Islam. The infidels who are usurping our countries have announced war against Islam and Muslims, forcing Muslims to abandon Islam and change their beliefs.” - Abdullah Mansour, leader of the Uyghur separatist movement Turkistan Islamic Party (East Turkestan Islamic Movement), from “The Duty of Faith and Support,” Voice of Islam/al-Fajr Media Center, August 26, 2009.

A Uyghur proverb says "Protect religion, Kill the Han and destroy the Hui".(baohu zongjiao, sha Han mie Hui 保護宗教，殺漢滅回).

Anti Hui poetry was written by Uyghurs.

In Bayanday there is a brick factory,
it had been built by the Chinese.
If the Chinese are killed by soldiers,
the Tungans take over the plundering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China
"Protect the religion, Kill the Han and destroy the Hui" are they protecting the religion when they kill other muslims and innocent people? thats what i mean by humans will always politicise overt religion. Humans are petty beings that will taint our holy figures to further our political agenda. More will be explained.

When some muslims within or outside of China hear those words they are fooled by the rage they feel inside and compelled to do acts of violence because they feel like their being and identity is under attack when they had not even experience real oppression. Their perception is important. You think the Chinese state will not do anything about that? Does my Muslim friends outside of china feel any sympathy towards my Hui friends who are being killed and discriminated by some Uyghurs (Most Uyghurs are good people)? Or do you feel Hui are just Chinese and support Uyghurs to spite China? This is a two way street. its just scratching the surface.
Personally I do not want to see that niqab or burka in China its an ancient Arab practice but I have nothing wrong with the headscarf. Its like if Chinese forced Europeans and Middle Easterners to bind the feet of their women, how will you feel? In fact my great great-grandmother had her feet bound, it was a sign of modesty, beauty, and wealth. When in reality it was a way for wealthy men to confine their women to their homes and forcefully maintain the family structure. It was the product of an ancient practice, might have been oppressive but useful then but not so appropriate now.

• Sure they can interpret it like that but does the Koran say to be a muslim women one must be covered and a man must have a beard? Is that the qualifier for a good muslim or is that just ancient Arabic culture?
• I don't see Turkish people along the coast doing that or any of my Pakistani friends and their wives, are you saying they are not good Muslims?
• Are you saying that a Wahhabist interpretation is the only interpretation of Islam? any deviation is apostate and death. Suffer what kind of consequences?
• Are they going to rebel against the Chinese government and kill Chinese people for not allowing the veil and beard?

Compatibility with Chinese culture:
Precisely, Islam is God and religion above all else but its an Abrahamic God interpreted by the culture of Arabia using Arab values. Its fine in China if its a Chinese god interpreted by Chinese scholars using Chinese values with the holy site in China. I'm not saying this to be mean, just stating my honest views. In fact Chinese have the concept for a singular god Shangdi上帝 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi) too and quite a long history of it we are not as atheistic as people believe (we don't reject god nor do we enforce it) but western scholars think we are an atheistic society because we never show it in ways they understand or tell people about it, declare war in the name of Shangdi, build institutions around Shangdi, preach the greatness of Shangdi, its concept its deeply embedded within Chinese culture (multiple works of literature) not in the form of a single book a person can read. There is a good reason why Chinese don't practice spirituality the same way as the rest of the world (especially Abrahamic religions) and that difference is Chinese modesty, not saying others are not modest but Chinese show modesty in different ways.

Chinese modesty:
Modesty for Chinese means keeping whats important to you within your hearts not flaunting it around as a symbol because we believe that vastly degrades the value of it and very immodest. And symbols for us isn't as important as the values that they teach, its because China has such a long history that symbols will decay over the thousands of years because of societal collapses and wars. In the end we only leave ourselves with what is important.
For example: If Mohammad the Prophet was born in the central plains of China and unified the Middle Kingdom and brought Islam he would be seen as the great figure but no one after him would be named Mohammad ever again. This is vastly different from Abrahamic religions with countless Mohammads, Johns, Michaels, etc. This is simply because we would view Mohammad as such a holy figure or such a great man that no one after can live up to the name and bearing that name but failing to be greater than Mohammad would mean disgrace to the name, and no one would want that. Thats why you don't see Chinese being named Mao Zedong, Confucius, or any great ancient Chinese figure. In fact if a Chinese person was named after great figures people would think their parents were distasteful or that this person was too ahead of themselves with a big ego. We would think shame has been brought upon the name if a common person is named after a great man and will make the name cheap when it was held at a higher standard. A modern interpretation would be like Sports Jerseys being in the hall of fame, forever taken by the greats. Thats how Chinese honour our great figures, we dont like to shame their name by the petty behaviours of the common man because god and the greats are above the common man.

We don't build institutions around our single deity Shangdi, preach it, etc. because we feel any of that is just tainting God with our human emotions and politics. God is beyond the petty human behaviour we are using god as a political tool from a very disingenuous place.

The core reason why China restricts the overt showcase of individual's adherence to religion is that it is ultimately a political statement. If a person truly have strong faith its viewed in Chinese culture that they will stay faithful no matter the environment even without symbols of religion because they don't need it to be faithful. If you keep faith within your hearts then no one can ever take that away from you and thats the ultimate form of modesty as interpreted by Chinese values.

 

[hembo]

Since your queries had not been addressed so far, allow me to offer my views in moderation, if I may. I may be wrong and would welcome you or anyone else to correct my view. @TaiShang

1. Why do you think Islam is corrosive? or this is for all religions?
2. What part of it do you think cannot be questioned? Or rather which part of it would you like to question? There is a whole field of Islamic philosophy which is based around questioning Islamic prinicples.

1. Its not Islam is viewed as corrosive, its the pan-national ideologies, which is considered to be harmful to the strong national identity that one have.. Also there is a general perception that this pan-national ideology is so strong because of their holder's strong desire for a ultimate caliphate & their (strong, sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle, direct, indirect, peaceful, violent) evangelical approach to convert as many (with the aim to everyone ultimately) to their faith (this is to gain positive points or judgement day as well as the paramount goal of ultimate caliphate).

2. Many. I would not like to state many here as it will again open a pandora's box.. But blasphemy, apostasy or even the laws of sharia etc. are above all questions... The modern judicial laws can always be reviewed and amended or replaced, but alas... Even difference in the strong views on the purpose of life, ultimate goal, existence or non-existence of a supreme being etc can result being harmful to fulfill China's (or any other nation state's) dreams as a nation.

1. Participation in Islam is voluntary.
2. The degree of participation is voluntary.
3. Difference of opinion and implementation on most principles is tolerated within Islam.
4. Islam is only applicable to Muslims (ie voluntary participators in Islam)
5. In Muslim majority states the rule of law must be compatible with Islamic principles (under which islamic principles are only applicable to Muslims).
6. In states where Muslims are a minority they should abide by the laws of the state where those laws are not prohibitive to their chosen way of life. If this is not possible Muslims should leave the land as a last resort.

The general perception for the bolded part above is actually opposite.

So you believe in evolution too.

Are you really a Muslim? Or an Indian pretending to be one to stir up divisions between China and Pakistan.

You could have checked his previous posts at least. I infer you have biased view on Indians, but being a think tank, at least do the minimum research.

 

[帅的一匹]

Islam is the fastest growing religion worldwide, it's not implausible for East Asia to eventually gain a substantial number of Muslims.

Our goverment is doing their best to prevent China becoming a religious country.

Islam not stop you from following your culture, Islam is not Arabism, you can wear your Chinese modest dress, women can add their own style of head scarf (Many Muslim countries have their own types of Muslims scarfs, even xinjiang female wear different scarfs then Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistani ladies), Pakistan and Bharat have special type of Muslim music called "Qawali" which you will not find anywhere else in Muslim world (they have their own types), This is result of fussion of religion and culture in subcontinent. Similarly you can enjoy Chinese cuisine with halal meat. I dont see any problem.. You can enjoy Chinese poetry and Music as long as its not lewd erotic and immoral. You can have your cultural dances like all Muslim regions have their own but point is it shouldnt be lewd, erotic and immoral.

Simple question my friend, can a non-Muslim Chinese male marry a Muslim Chinese female, without converting to Muslim?

For me, Islam is more a law than just a religion.

Still remember how India and Pakistan break apart? No offend, just telling he facts.

 

[Max]

Simple question my friend, can a non-Muslim Chinese male marry a Muslim Chinese female, without converting to Muslim?

No they can't. but what's wrong if they cant marry Chinese from other faith as long as they are marrying Chinese Male Muslims?

Islam is way of life which include laws. but that way of life can fit universally,

Still remember how India and Pakistan break apart? No offend, just telling he facts.

Pakistan and India were never united to begin with, learn history of subcontinent, it was always a divided territory between different kingdoms, different tribes, different ethnic groups, it was invader from Arabia and Central Asia who binded us with gangalanders in same kingdom by force.

This video may help you, Present day territory of Pakistan remain separated most of the time from our eastern neighbours.

 

[313ghazi]

Our goverment is doing their best to prevent China becoming a religious country.

Having started to read the thoughts of Chinese people, I expect that China will not become a religious society for a long time, certainly for as long as it is communist. Communism promoted atheism and by the sounds of things culturally the role of organised religion is diminished and religion has been relegated to a personal affair.

Simple question my friend, can a non-Muslim Chinese male marry a Muslim Chinese female, without converting to Muslim?

For me, Islam is more a law than just a religion.

You are right that Islam is more than just a religion. It is not just a set of acts of worship, it is a guide to life and does come with laws that it's followers ought to adhere too.

In the above scenario, the Islamic rules make it compulsary on the Chinese Muslim woman to marry a man who is also Muslim (regardless of what nationality he is). There is no compulsion preventing a Chinese non muslim man from marrying that woman. Obviously a marriage requires consent from two parties, so if the Chinese Muslim woman adheres to the religious rulings, she will not marry and if she does not, then she will. If she does the marriage will not be recognised by as a valid marriage in accordance to Islamic principles - though it would be perfectly legal in China.

The important part to remember here is;

1. The compulsion to follow the rules of Islam is upon the Muslim, not the non-Muslim.
2. Wether you follow the rule or not, is a matter for the individual to choose.
3. There will be no enforcement of this rule in China, such rules can only be enforced (if the state should choose to do so) in a country which has Islamic laws (such as Pakistan for example).

It might interest you to know that some West African Muslims communities don't seem to stick to this rule and there are marriages between Muslims and non Muslims more frequently in those communities. They are however the exception rather than the rule.

Still remember how India and Pakistan break apart? No offend, just telling he facts.

We were never together. Historical maps of the area will always show multiple empires, some bigger, some smaller. The only time the nations of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India have been "together" has been under British colonial rule. There was never a national identity which was over ruled by a religious identity, though religious identity did form the core of the countries that were formed after British colonial rule ended.

 

[Cybernetics]

I recall a Pakistani member calling us "worse than Indians" (the comment was deleted). Personally i don't view Indians negatively as people but India sure is a strategic competitor in the region to both Pakistan and China. Some in the Pakistani military views India as an existential threat and the animosity between Pakistan and India is definitely strong. Now with the sudden comment of Chinese or China is worse, it must imply some deep brewing discontent with China that got triggered. We can talk about it, was it because you thought China could have and should be ideologically aligned with Pakistan beyond just politics? Want China to be more alike to your tastes? Hiding a viewpoint wont help.

I feel strongly in helping fellow members understand China since it will be ever more present. It be in your interest to understand whether one feels comfortable or not. I like to present bite sized anecdotes to help digestion:
John Mearsheimer a famous geostrategist from the US often talks about China and his interaction with his Chinese strategist counterparts in China. His distinct remark is that he felt at home because "everyone is a realist there" and while back in Washington John is out of place because realists are a rare species in DC. I can tell you that most Chinese people are similar. We don't have the baggage of White guilt, imperialism of the third world, etc. We see things without the rose tinted glass of Political Correctness. In our real strategic discussions there is none of that political correctness that plagues the west, they don't try to be mean or intentionally hurtful, just realism.

Two main factors play into this mentality: History and Educational background.
1. Chinese history is long we see the rise and fall of empires and how it happened in detail, we can see patterns in human behaviour that haven't changed through the millennia. We critique our own history and reflect upon our historical hubris and downfalls, what made China work and what didn't and why it did or didn't. Its not a matter of feelings, had feelings ran China it would have collapsed. 5000 years of rise and fall has created a culture that values realism over ideology because Chinese civilisation have faced the edge of death many times, only realism pulled us out of the abyss.
2. Vast majority of Chinese leaders and strategists are physicists, doctors, scientists, computer science, mechanical engineers, xijinping is an chemical engineer, hujintao is a hydraulic engineer, jiangzemin a electrical engineer, not lawyers, psychologists, sociology, and bureaucrats like in the West. Scientists and engineers think in a physics based framework and their path to the truth is the scientific method. Quite frankly China is a relatively resource poor country, if its run by bureaucrats like in the west without technical expertise it would have collapsed long ago. The educational background might explain why some Chinese methods seem straightforward but a bit awkward to the feelings.

I highly, HIGHLY doubt that occurred.



You may be right.

But I still don't have the means to go.

Besides, these groups often do things which are haram.



False.

Only the ones who work at the behest of foreigners are killed.

I'm I reading this right? Are you thinking of joining ISIS to take back Raqqa? Im not sure if thats going to solve any problems, I admire the bravery but one airstrike and you are cannon fodder.
How old are you? I am curious, i feel like you are a hot blooded young man.

If this is a misunderstanding I sincerely apologize

Lol. I have been on Internet forum interacting with Chinese on Pakistani forums for more than 10 years. I have never known them to be negative about Pakistan, or to discuss religion.

Today we see a topic where they are negative about Islam. Instead of asking why - you get angry.

Maybe this is because you live in a Muslim country and only interact with people who have a positive opinion about Islam. Living in a non Muslim community I can tell you that for the last 20 years (even longer) there has been anti Islamic propaganda in the media where we have replaced the Russians as bad guys even on TV and movies. Post 911 this intensified.

Do you think the rest of the world is immune to the western propaganda machine? No. Islam has a bad reputation and we must counter the propaganda not get angry or even validate it.

Chinese dont view Pakistan negatively (negatively is a feeling, not a concrete answer)but we are realistic about it. Just because we are not negative doesn't mean we think everything about pakistan is perfect, we don't have rose tinted glasses. The world is more complex then positive/negative, good/bad. Chinese think Pakistan is less safe then China and that is backed by evidence, does that mean Chinese hate Pakistan?No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Does Pakistan have a problem with terrorism? Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_terrorist_incidents_by_country
These are real issues and just because Pakistan has does doesn't mean China hates Pakistan.


China is not against Islam China is just cautious of all outside forces that can destabilize China. Please read and follow my posts if you are curious.

Wait why can't we hate or be racist to you if you can attack our faith

How the fcuk does that work?

So you want a trade? you can be racist to me all you want because thats your true character, be free and express yourself but I'm not going to attack your faith. Your faith is your own how can I possibly take that away from you. Why are you putting the stability of your faith upon others?

 

[武成王]

I don't think it's wise for both sides to talk about religion. A simple fact, Chinese Muslim didn't spread very successfully in the past 1000 years in China. Majority of Chinese didn't either persuade Chinese Muslim to give up their religion, this is same for Chinese Christian.
It's meaningless for each side to prove: I'm right, you're wrong. UNNECESSARY AT ALL.

The interest of China and Pakistan is primarily built on geopolitics, more specifically India,
this is in the state level. For personal level, Chinese can make a friend with a Muslim as long as
the relationship built on mutual respect. Period.

Isn't religion thread banned in this forum?

 

[mike2000 is back]

Simple question my friend, can a non-Muslim Chinese male marry a Muslim Chinese female, without converting to Muslim?

If that Chinese female and her family really follow Islam and are pious Muslims then No they can't be allowed to marry.

In Islam (both Sunnis and Shia) inter faith marriages are condoned only between a Muslim male and a non-Muslim female from the people of the book (that is, Christians and Jews) and not vice versa. So, Muslim men are forbidden from marrying polytheist women, in this case a polytheist woman would have to convert to Islam if she would want to get married to a Muslim man, according to Islamic principles.

Funny enough, a Muslim male is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman(only people of the book though i.e either Christian or jew) but a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry any of the above under no circumstances

So I think it's a bit tricky.

 

[313ghazi]

I recall a Pakistani member calling us "worse than Indians" (the comment was deleted). Personally i don't view Indians negatively as people but India sure is a strategic competitor in the region to both Pakistan and China. Some in the Pakistani military views India as an existential threat and the animosity between Pakistan and India is definitely strong. Now with the sudden comment of Chinese or China is worse, it must imply some deep brewing discontent with China that got triggered. We can talk about it, was it because you thought China could have and should be ideologically aligned with Pakistan beyond just politics? Want China to be more alike to your tastes? Hiding a viewpoint wont help.

LOL - it's simpler than that. When you were a teenager do you remember that sudden jolt of pain and rejection when a girl would turn down your advances? I think a lot of members are still teenagers.

Muslim countries don't have open debate about religion, the idea that Islam is anything but perfect is ridiculous and the only problems are with how Islam is implemented. If you live in the west you see open hostility towards Islam and religion in general and it forces you into conversations where you have to think about and defend your values.

The narrative of a clash of cultures between east and west is utilised by both western governments and "eastern" governments so if Pakistani members here something negative about Islam from a westerner it's assumed it's because they are "against us". The same is true about negativity from Indians because we see them as "against us" too.

For many to hear anti Islamic or anti religious opinion from Chinese people doesn't make sense because;
- they don't actually know what Chinese opinion on this subject is
- they assume because we agree on everything else so far we will agree on this

Like I said personally before these last few days i only knew;
- Chinese people aren't very religious
- Chinese people prefer to conform to the same ideas

The opinions about religion were a surprise, but not a shock because i've heard the same before from atheists in the western world whom i've engaged with.

I'm I reading this right? Are you thinking of joining ISIS to take back Raqqa? Im not sure if thats going to solve any problems, I admire the bravery but one airstrike and you are cannon fodder.
How old are you? I am curious, i feel like you are a hot blooded young man.

I'm not even going to pretend to understand where this part of the conversation is going. I think @dsr478 has some interesting views and stuff we can agree on, but anything remotely positive about ISIS... i'm not standing with that.

This thread has gonna way outta hand.

Yeah, it died a death a while ago really.

I don't think it's wise for both sides to talk about religion. A simple fact, Chinese Muslim didn't spread very successfully in the past 1000 years in China. Majority of Chinese didn't either persuade Chinese Muslim to give up their religion, this is same for Chinese Christian.
It's meaningless for each side to prove: I'm right, you're wrong. UNNECESSARY AT ALL.

The interest of China and Pakistan is primarily built on geopolitics, more specifically India,
this is in the state level. For personal level, Chinese can make a friend with a Muslim as long as
the relationship built on mutual respect. Period.

Isn't religion thread banned in this forum?

Unfortunately some participants are not interested in other peoples ideas, just in saying what they want to say. Any discussion should be done with a certain respectful decorum, which is missing in this topic.

 

[帅的一匹]

Forcing upon religions on others is very wrong, we shall have religious freedom. Goverment shall not openly support any religion, but to respect the different believers and Atheists and put them under the protections of Constitutions.

For example if thng turns into like this: 1/3rds of the Chinese population are Muslim, 1/3rds are Christians, and 1/3rds are Buddhists and Atheist. The society will split as each of these believers are in numbers. I think Buddhism is not just a religion in China, it's part of our Culture and philosophy.