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Red Mosque Cleric Abdul Aziz warns of 'bloody revolution'

The Quaid e Azam was no Islamist - his vision was of a secular Pakistan where all Pakistanis are free and equal before the law - whoever the "forefathers" were, they were no fathers of any pakistani, may be of some arabs.

Quaid -e-Azam was true muslim and main objective for his struggle was to get independent state for muslims of sub continent, where muslims and non muslims(minorities) could live as brothers but he mentioned in his speaches that the law of land shall be shariah not secular or any other law.

Please dont change cause of our independence

Thanks
 
Bill, With Islamists, every convsation comes down to the Islamist quoting verses from Quran and telling people to not speak, only the Islamist can speak.:cheesy:

Take it easy brother man, regressives will either change or.... else. Islam will be free, Pakistan will be free of the islam of outward appearance, and the world free of whatever this islamism is -- all good. Like javed said, Only sermon in the masajid will be ones we approve and that will be good, the only thing Madress will impart is what we tell them is OK to impart.

But of course those not happy with this can always go to arabia, go and see for yourself how welcome they and their islamism message will be.

i am a Muslim, and I am proud of my Identity
i dont feel cheep in front of others on my identity
I am a nationalist but for me my Religion and identity :pakistan:comes first
 
he mentioned in his speaches that the law of land shall be shariah not secular or any other law.

PM gilani says the cause of religious extremism is illiteracy, he should have added insanity.

Please help the cause of all Islamist, and your good reputation as a intellectually honest person - please provide just one link with Quaid e Azam claiming that Shariah is the or should be the law of Pakistan.

Go ahead, it's a challenege - either prove it or do some research, may be you got carried away
 
None of us would like to compromise on our quality of life and a few innocent pleasures to accomodate the draconian whims of Maulana Ghazi.

Pakistan is essentially a secular society. Our government should take some proactive steps to promote our secular identity. Bars, Discos should be allowed, liquor should flow freely. Burqa / hejab should be actively disouraged if not banned outright. All mosques and madrassas should be taken over by Army, and the Maulvis only allowed to read printed Khutbas vetted by ISI. No government servant or member of the Armed forces should be allowed to sport a beard. Sahlwar Kameez should be banned in any government outfit or facility.

We must emerge as an enlightened moderate society and wholeheartedly embrace western / US culture. These steps will for sure encourage massive Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) and will transform Pakistan into a vibrant progressive society.

I think would should also be allowed to eat pork and encorage single parent mothers ,education about being gay should be taught to our children.
 
yea for enlightenments sake
we should adopt western values and habits...

incest, Rape , dating will prove that we are not religous people
 
Bill

You say your are nationalist - You mean Pakistan or Islamistan?

Your religious identity is your own business, like any Pakistani citizen you are free to have have any religion you are persuaded by. But islamism and islamists are not nationalists, by defition they cannot be.

Does not matter if you now raise the falg of Pakistan or if you carry a photo of the Quaid e Azam as a reminder of the islamists strenghth of character:cheers:, no islamist can be a nationalist because Islamism is not nationally defined.

By the way, Bill, incest and rape, especially of little boys, it seems this is a mullah specialty - we will cure the mullah of these as well.
 
Please help the cause of all Islamist, and your good reputation as a intellectually honest person - please provide just one link with Quaid e Azam claiming that Shariah is the or should be the law of Pakistan.

Go ahead, it's a challenege - either prove it or do some research, may be you got carried away

On October 11, 1947, in an address to Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers of Pakistan Government, Karachi, he said:

We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play.

On February 21, 1948, in an address to the officers and men of the 5th Heavy Ack Ack and 6th Light Ack Ack Regiments in Malir, Karachi, he said:

You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve.

May you could tell us what he means by "islamic"..?
 
......where muslims and non muslims(minorities) could live as brothers but he mentioned in his speaches that the law of land shall be shariah not secular or any other law.

Please dont change cause of our independence

Thanks

You don't know what you are talking about - brush up your knowledge of history. Isnt it hyprocritical that the very religious parties opposed to the creation of the state are now trumpeting its existence. :)

What Jinnah stood for and actually said:

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims --Hindus, Christians, and Parsis --but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.

Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948.


The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it.

Broadcast talk to the people of Australia recorded on 19th February, 1948.


...and we should be proud to be known as Pakistanis and nothing else.We are now all Pakistanis--not Baluchis, Pathans, Sindhis, Bengalis, Punjabis and so on--and as Pakistanis we must feet behave and act, and we should be proud to be known as Pakistanis and nothing else.
Reply to the Civic Address presented by the Quetta Municipality on 15th June, 1948.



You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed --that has nothing to do with the business of the State.
Presidential Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on 11th August, 1947.



No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.

Speech at a meeting of the Muslim University Union, Aligarh March 10, 1944.
 
You don't know what you are talking about - brush up your knowledge of history. Isnt it hyprocritical that the very religious parties opposed to the creation of the state are now trumpeting its existence. :)

What Jinnah stood for and actually said:

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims --Hindus, Christians, and Parsis --but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.

Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948.


The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it.

Broadcast talk to the people of Australia recorded on 19th February, 1948.


...and we should be proud to be known as Pakistanis and nothing else.We are now all Pakistanis--not Baluchis, Pathans, Sindhis, Bengalis, Punjabis and so on--and as Pakistanis we must feet behave and act, and we should be proud to be known as Pakistanis and nothing else.
Reply to the Civic Address presented by the Quetta Municipality on 15th June, 1948.



You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed --that has nothing to do with the business of the State.
Presidential Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on 11th August, 1947.



No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.

Speech at a meeting of the Muslim University Union, Aligarh March 10, 1944.

Quaid-e-Azam said in his presidential address in 1940:

“It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders… The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, literature. They belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspects of life and our life are different.”

In his speech at the Frontier Muslim League Conference on November 21, 1945, he said:

“We have to fight a double edged battle, one against the Hindu Congress and the British Imperialists, both of them being capitalists. The Muslims demand Pakistan where they could rule according to their own code of life and according to their own cultural growth, traditions and Islamic laws.”

In a message to NWFP Muslim Students Federation in April 1943, he said:

“You have asked me to give a message. What message can I give you? We have got the great message in the Quran for our guidance and enlightenment.”

In an Eid message to the nation in 1945, he said:

“Every Muslim knows that the injunctions of the Quran are not confined to religious and moral duties. Everyone except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code; it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all, to those of each individual; from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet (S) has enjoined on us that every Muslim should possess a copy of the Holy Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines and rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society in every department of life, collectively and individually.”

In August 1941, Quaid-e-Azam gave an interview to the students of the Osmania University. The replies he gave to the questions asked by the students explain his depth and comprehension of the basic foundations of Islam. Here are excerpts from the interview:

Q. What are the essential features of religion and a religious state?

A. When I hear the word “religion,” my mind thinks at once, according to the English language and British usage, of private relations between man and God. But I know full well that according to Islam, the word is not restricted to the English connotation. I am neither a Maulwi nor a Mullah, nor do I claim knowledge of theology. But I have studied in my own way the Holy Quran and Islamic tenets. This magnificent book is full of guidance respecting all human life, whether spiritual, or economic, political or social, leaving no aspect untouched.

Q. What is the distinctive feature of the Islamic state?

A. There is a special feature of the Islamic state which must not be overlooked. There, obedience is due to God and God alone, which takes practical shape in the observance of the Quranic principles and commands. In Islam, obedience is due neither to a king, nor to a parliament, nor to any other organization. It is the Quranic provisions which determine the limits of our freedom and restrictions in political and social spheres. In other words, the Islamic state is an agency for enforcement of the Quranic principles and injunctions.

There will be no economic exploitation by the capitalists in an Islamic state. In his presidential address delivered to the annual session of the All India Muslim League, in Delhi on April 24, 1943, he said:

“Here I should like to give a warning to the landlords and capitalists who have flourished at our expense by a system which is so vicious, which is so wicked and which makes them so selfish that it is difficult to reason with them. The exploitation of the masses has gone into their blood. They have forgotten the lessons of Islam. Greed and selfishness have made these people subordinate to the interests of others in order to fatten themselves. It is true we are not in power today. You go anywhere to the countryside. I have visited villages. There are millions and millions of our people who hardly get one meal a day. Is this civilization? Is this the aim of Pakistan? Do you visualize that millions have been exploited and cannot get one meal a day? If this is the idea of Pakistan, I would not have it. If they are wise, they will have to adjust themselves to the new modern conditions of life. If they don’t, God help them, we shall not help them.”
 
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Since our Islamists have now been busted in a lie claiming the Quaid e Azam wanted shariah as the law of Pakistan or that the Quaid's vision for Pakistan had anything to do with islamism - we instruct them:


August 11, 1947 address of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly, to the status of a national covenant. That it has taken more than 50 years to reach such a conclusion is indeed most intriguing. In that address the Quaid said, among other things, the following:

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State... We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State... I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State
 
In interview with suicide bomber at Geo,he said we are fidaai not suicide bomber, and our jihad is justify with "munafqein" Pakistan Army.

We still not justify whom with we are fighting but our enemy tag their own label on us.
No worth of 1000 of ulema fatwa against suicide bombing.They should need to declare taliban "munafqein" and announce the Jihad with them.

Then we are also justify in destruction of munafqein masjid and madresas as per Sunnat e RASOOL(SAWW).

But i don't think they can do that majority of mullah are themselves munafiq or coward
 
yea for enlightenments sake
we should adopt western values and habits...

incest, Rape , dating will prove that we are not religous people

Come on Bill - don't delude youself. Tell it to the swati women who have been raped and brutalized by the taliban thugs.
 
In the end, the islamist showed themselves not just to be liars and decievers, but just plain, less then bright:

So once more, pay attention, OK?:

August 11, 1947 address of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly, to the status of a national covenant. That it has taken more than 50 years to reach such a conclusion is indeed most intriguing. In that address the Quaid said, among other things, the following:

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State... We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State... I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State

Islamists getting this??:cheers: Enjoy
 
Once three friends were on pleasure trip to Africa. One day they were passing through a jungle when they were caught by a tribe of cannibals. The cannibals made them prisoners and took them to their camp in jungle.

From the actions of the tribal, the three friends got the point that they were to be eaten soon. The tribal took them to their leader, the tribal chief.
To the surprise of these three, the chief was their class fellow from Harvard university. His face gave them relief and they were happy that at least their class mate will spare their life.
The chief also recognized them and smiled ,which gave them assurance. one of them asked the chief " what is our fate" Chief replied you will be eaten today in dinner"

other commented by " you are Harvard graduate and have education how can you practice cannibalism? you were the most civilized boy of our class"
Chief replied " I haven't forgotten my western training and education. thats why when others will be eating your flesh with hands I will use Fork and knife "

moral of Story is
Today what we see is WAR OF CANNIBALS , BETWEEN CIVILIZED AND IGNORANT.
Those who don't have education are evil but those who are trained in Arts of life are called civilized and their every sin is forgiven...
 
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