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Red Mosque Cleric Abdul Aziz warns of 'bloody revolution'

Since our Islamists have now been busted in a lie claiming the Quaid e Azam wanted shariah as the law of Pakistan or that the Quaid's vision for Pakistan had anything to do with islamism - we instruct them:

So when the great Jinnah says he wants "Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice" what does he mean?

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State... We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State... I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”

All the above does not go against an islamic system....if anything the vast majority of the above fits pefectly with islam.
 
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This delima of Pakistan when ever dictator came into power , he corrupted all institutions of country and first one is supreme court.Our supreme court had given acceptance rather Musharaf taken by force approval for his illegal bloodless coup ?

What dictator? The military leader need atleast 8-10 generals on his back to over-power the parliament. It isn't just COAS, but whole army backing him. Also, can you tell me who corrupt more a military who comes remove parliament, and just try to cover everything through their own resources, or the parliament who when ever come in then put their on jiyals in different institution?

Sorry, the discussion is moving to the different direction.. but my point is, what ever happen. who ever will come up, military dictator, or parliamentary dictator both are representing same corrupt system, they are on the top because of this system. So what ever happen they will never remove or change anything in this system. but the requirements of current scenario are different, what will happen even if PA take over aziz, baitullah masoud, other enemy puppets??? The agenda will be their, and to remove it pakistani constitution should get compliant with shariah. otherwise, who knows tomorrow our enemy uses some other mazara of the sindh, with same agenda.. and there is 90-100% purity that he will get enough support as now baitullah masoud has.

What pathan culture? all these pathans living in usa and canada why not carry weapons?

Are they anywhere close to their culture (if they don't use their langauge, their wedding patterns, their parties, their other culture things)? I didn't said carry i said having and i know many pathans even living in uk have armors (thanks to black carabians) at their home. not to protect or anything just to tell their kids that this is our culture. Their kid normally speak Pashto, unlike pakistanis who even forget their mother tongue, they continue with the culture even in abroad, don't know about US.
 
In the end, the islamist showed themselves not just to be liars and decievers, but just plain, less then bright:

So once more, pay attention, OK?:

August 11, 1947 address of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly, to the status of a national covenant. That it has taken more than 50 years to reach such a conclusion is indeed most intriguing. In that address the Quaid said, among other things, the following:

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State... We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State... I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State

Islamists getting this??:cheers: Enjoy

Quaid-e-Azam said in his presidential address in 1940:

“It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders… The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, literature. They belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspects of life and our life are different.”

In his speech at the Frontier Muslim League Conference on November 21, 1945, he said:

“We have to fight a double edged battle, one against the Hindu Congress and the British Imperialists, both of them being capitalists. The Muslims demand Pakistan where they could rule according to their own code of life and according to their own cultural growth, traditions and Islamic laws.”

In a message to NWFP Muslim Students Federation in April 1943, he said:

“You have asked me to give a message. What message can I give you? We have got the great message in the Quran for our guidance and enlightenment.”

In an Eid message to the nation in 1945, he said:

“Every Muslim knows that the injunctions of the Quran are not confined to religious and moral duties. Everyone except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code; it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all, to those of each individual; from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet (S) has enjoined on us that every Muslim should possess a copy of the Holy Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines and rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society in every department of life, collectively and individually.”

In August 1941, Quaid-e-Azam gave an interview to the students of the Osmania University. The replies he gave to the questions asked by the students explain his depth and comprehension of the basic foundations of Islam. Here are excerpts from the interview:

Q. What are the essential features of religion and a religious state?

A. When I hear the word “religion,” my mind thinks at once, according to the English language and British usage, of private relations between man and God. But I know full well that according to Islam, the word is not restricted to the English connotation. I am neither a Maulwi nor a Mullah, nor do I claim knowledge of theology. But I have studied in my own way the Holy Quran and Islamic tenets. This magnificent book is full of guidance respecting all human life, whether spiritual, or economic, political or social, leaving no aspect untouched.

Q. What is the distinctive feature of the Islamic state?

A. There is a special feature of the Islamic state which must not be overlooked. There, obedience is due to God and God alone, which takes practical shape in the observance of the Quranic principles and commands. In Islam, obedience is due neither to a king, nor to a parliament, nor to any other organization. It is the Quranic provisions which determine the limits of our freedom and restrictions in political and social spheres. In other words, the Islamic state is an agency for enforcement of the Quranic principles and injunctions.

There will be no economic exploitation by the capitalists in an Islamic state. In his presidential address delivered to the annual session of the All India Muslim League, in Delhi on April 24, 1943, he said:

“Here I should like to give a warning to the landlords and capitalists who have flourished at our expense by a system which is so vicious, which is so wicked and which makes them so selfish that it is difficult to reason with them. The exploitation of the masses has gone into their blood. They have forgotten the lessons of Islam. Greed and selfishness have made these people subordinate to the interests of others in order to fatten themselves. It is true we are not in power today. You go anywhere to the countryside. I have visited villages. There are millions and millions of our people who hardly get one meal a day. Is this civilization? Is this the aim of Pakistan? Do you visualize that millions have been exploited and cannot get one meal a day? If this is the idea of Pakistan, I would not have it. If they are wise, they will have to adjust themselves to the new modern conditions of life. If they don’t, God help them, we shall not help them.”
 
:smitten::smitten::rofl::rofl:

Now, as our islamists flay about, they should remember what Javed has suggested -- the source of this evil ideology is of course Saudi Arabia, nut the ideology is imparted in Madaress and a clean up must begin there - but because the islamists insurgents, flush with petro dollar weapons, are waging war against Pakistan, we must finish them first to safe gaurd the pakistani people -- and we are going to get to you and of course, there will be no place to hide in the West either. One hanging from every light pole and branch:cheers:

But, you know, It's not in the Pakistani character, islamist themselves could have been decieved and any who recant, who publically say they were mistaken, well, God forgives, who is man to not forgive?
 
Come on Bill - don't delude youself. Tell it to the swati women who have been raped and brutalized by the taliban thugs.

taliban are not islam, nor shia iran or wahabi saudi arab

why dont you realize

it was sufies who were leading in struggle for pakistan. Pakistans 70 % population is sufi

we want ISLAM of prophet which is blessing for humanity not that of r takfiries who are curse
 
In the end, the islamist showed themselves not just to be liars and decievers, but just plain, less then bright:

So once more, pay attention, OK?:

August 11, 1947 address of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly, to the status of a national covenant. That it has taken more than 50 years to reach such a conclusion is indeed most intriguing. In that address the Quaid said, among other things, the following:

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State... We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State... I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State

Islamists getting this??:cheers: Enjoy


nicely summarized - I rest my case.
 
Now, as our islamists flay about, they should remember what Javed has suggested -- the source of this evil ideology is of course Saudi Arabia,

Enough Saudi propaganda, whol Islamic ideology (by which you call yourself a Muslim) came from Arab land, as MUhammad (SAWW) was an arabic. so who will be more close to the islam we who got islam after decays, centuries??? or those who are living in that arabian land from the time Prophet muhammad (SAWW) born?

Be logical in answering!!
 
So now you are sufi:rofl::rofl: taliban are bad, eh? Wahabi are dog doody, eh?:rofl::rofl: But you are a Islamist?:rofl::rofl:

Good one, Bill -- But seriously Bill, as far as you are concerned, seriously, is it Quaid e Azam or Kafir Ezam?? Is it that All Pakistanis are FREE and that religion is the business of the beliver and not the State Or izlumism??

All kidding aside, tell us the real stuff
 
taliban are not islam, nor shia iran or wahabi saudi arab

why dont you realize

it was sufies who were leading in struggle for pakistan. Pakistans 70 % population is sufi

we want ISLAM of prophet which is blessing for humanity not that of r takfiries who are curse

fair point Bill - I agree with your comment above.

However, I take issue with your previous implication that crimes such as rape and incest are a western habit. The west does not have a monopoly on rape and incest. We all know the sort of atrocities perpetrated again women by the feudals in southern punjab and sindh just to mention a few of these hubs.

Lets recognize that incidents like Mukhtaran Mai happen in our backyard everyday - and that has nothing to do with the West.
 
Bill,

It's interesting that you did not take the opportunity to proclaim loudly and proudly, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Quaid e Azaam - but that's for pakistanis not islamists, I undertand where you are at brother man

psychology of, or rather, psychosis, of emasculation, bitterness and self worth is not where it's at - Identity is a artificial creation, we all have multiple identities, what matters is the degree to which these conform to reality and to what we judge to be good, bad, right and wrong.

If islamists find themselves useless in modern society, and since they delude themselves into utopian emasulation, it is only they who are to balme for their own wretchedness.

genuine Muslims are above anything else, FAITHFUL, not to identity in any sense other than as FAITHFUL -- God care about whether you have a beard? What clothes you wear? Only for Islamists are these things important, that is why islamists never talk about being FAITHFUL, they insist on Certitude because they are lost, led astray.

Creat a new identity, just make sure that it is one that can be evaluated as good and right and not bad and wrong.:cheers:
 
We all know the great Jinnah mentions islam in his speechs......does he ever mention being secular?


To clear up any misunderstanding on where i stand on islam and pakistan i only need to quote the great Jinnah.

"We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind." Speech at the opening ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi July 1, 1948

It appears that Jinnah felt the state of Pakistan should stand upon Islamic tradition in culture, civilization and national identity rather than on the principles of Islam as a theocratic state.

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims --Hindus, Christians, and Parsis --but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan. Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948.

It has been argued by many people that in this speech Jinnah wanted to point out that Pakistan would be a secular state as mostly people think that an Islamic state is a theocratic state, this perception is however wrong and is miss interpreted, the reason is because a true Islamic state is not a theocratic state ,as rightly stated by Jinnah in his speech. Because in a theocratic state the civil leader is believed to have a direct personal connection with god, which is contrary to the principles of an Islamic state.
 
In Qurran Allah says to RASOOL(SAWW) about munafqien: They accept Islam but not EMAN,Eman could never enter in their hearts even YOU(SAWW) preach them,because thier hearts are sealed.
These munafqein were certainly Arabs and also closer to RASOOL(SAWW).
The khwarjies who fight in jangay sifeein were very punctual in five time and tahjud prayer.Salat is not symbol of EMAN, shitan is the best example of first munafiq.

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------

In Qurran Allah says to RASOOL(SAWW) about munafqien: They accept Islam but not EMAN,Eman could never enter in their hearts even YOU(SAWW) preach them,because thier hearts are sealed.
These munafqein were certainly Arabs and also closer to RASOOL(SAWW).
The khwarjies who fight in jangay sifeein were very punctual in five time and tahjud prayer.Salat is not symbol of EMAN, shitan is the best example of first munafiq.
 
Enough Saudi propaganda, whol Islamic ideology (by which you call yourself a Muslim) came from Arab land, as MUhammad (SAWW) was an arabic. so who will be more close to the islam we who got islam after decays, centuries??? or those who are living in that arabian land from the time Prophet muhammad (SAWW) born?

Be logical in answering!!

Stupidity is a privilege - don't abuse it.

Do you even know that the Saud family in collusion with the Wahhabis fought against the Ottoman Empire in the early 1900s? After the caliphate collapsed, the Al Saud tribe was hand-picked by the British to rule Hijaz which was conveniently renamed 'Saudi' Arabia in the 1920s.

Lose your inferiority complex - just because someone is an Arab and lives near Mecca, does'nt mean he is a better Muslim. The majority of muslims in the world today are NOT Arab.

It is unfortunate that the Saudi Wahhabis promote their own misguided doctrine soaked in their fascist tribal customs in the guise of Islam - don't confuse wahhabi tribal culture for religion.
 
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Guys, thanks for the good fun - I'll catch up with you guys later - gota go.:cheers:
 
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