Recent Sino-Indian border conflict

[Nilgiri]

http://m.scmp.com/news/china/diplom...alted-road-building-end-india-border-standoff
China has put on hold building work in a disputed area of its border with India as part of an agreement to end the two-month military stand-off with its neighbour, but will maintain patrols in the area, according to Chinese diplomatic analysts.
The two nations have agreed to withdraw troops from an area on the Doklam plateau at the centre of the dispute, India’s foreign ministry said on Monday.

The stand-off was sparked in June when China began building a road in a disputed area high in the Himalayas close to Bhutan.
China’s foreign ministry said in a statement Indian troops were withdrawing and its troops would continue to patrol and garrison the area.

“In light of the changed situation, the Chinese side will make necessary adjustments and deployment according to the situation at the scene,” the ministry said.

India withdraws troops from disputed border zone, China says

China and India did not state if road construction in the area had been halted, but Chinese analysts said they believed China would hold off on the building work for now, in exchange for the withdrawal of troops."

We understand your embarresment. But facts dont lie.

@Nilgiri @Stephen Cohen @Roybot

Worst part for these chinese trolls will be the satellite picture verfication of border construction teams removed and never returned....plus lack of any "garrisons" that they emotionally feel they can hang on to.

At most they can patrol the area just like Bhutanese do....just like status quo was in the first place.

 

[jhungary]

Hey @Vergennes remember that hate of France we saw in that China stronk public school video lol. They seem to have something ingrained in them about France, its weird man. I guess false flagging is their way of seeming more legitimate on the issue. Couple weeks old account and the "American" is pretty much only found in China vs India trollfests supporting China (quite hillariously using the same exact sentence structure as other Chinese troll accounts)....and thinks he's credible when claiming to not be a false flag lol.

Classic of trolls to drag in other countries (in whatever warped perspective they have of them too) when they lost the argument.

Hope you neutrals enjoy the satellite pictures coming up of the reality when you were promised a grand ole war by these same trolls. @A.P. Richelieu @Taygibay @BON PLAN @gambit @jhungary et al.

why do you take their uber nationalist sentiment this far??

There will be no war, this is not even on the table. Any war in that situation will extremely favour the people occupying the high ground (It's something we, the military personnel, called Reverse (Slope) Defilade position) only a moron of a military commander will try to assault UP THE HILL, without Gunship and Naval Support. Any one with simple tactical training would have suggest that's a suicide If you ask me to attack a hill 3000 meters up and too high for any gunship (Chinese don't have AC-130, only fast air and chopper), I would probably tell you to go to hell and report that over my chain of command. Or you may as well put a pistol on my head and execute me then and there.

There are no other way for China to solve this but peaceful mean via diplomatic dialogue. Military Option is a no go from Day 1. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

If you listed to people like @Keel @Jlaw @Martian2 or anyone of these Chinese member, you would probably have to facepalm yourself until your hand stuck in your face forever, there were this time this @Keel guy even say what I said about assaulting Doklam is stupid. Lol, yeah, right, Well, I can tell you this, Chinese Army is always the god almighty when you hide behind a keyboard, but in REALITY, if you ask people who know about this shit, they will probably just laugh it out like me. Yeah right, maybe they should actually assault Doklam and See what happened. For me a place called Tahuk Ghar comes to mind.

Anyway, give not much attention to these people, they are here for your entertainment, and if you take it too seriously, than it will not be good.

 

[Leclan]

Donglang(doklam) standoff showed ordinary Chinese people what an evil &hypocritical country india is.
unlike Chinese in this forum who observed india for quite a while, most chinese just thought india is a developing country whose people are poor and china india can be partners as good examples for 3rd world countries.that means most chinese and Chinese government were trying a corporate ideology to deal with india. so china invest india, we also corporate to deal with western developed country on trade unfairness and world climate things. on border issue china always be the rational one. even on obor issues we tried to let india in and share the profit. however, this seems give india confidence that china is afraid of india, which made india more and more aggressive. this is very interesting. do u indians really think u are capable enough to have a war with china? ur dgp increasing rate 7.x％ gives u a false feeling that u are going to catch up with china, thats funny. do u know when china was at the same gdp scale as india today, China's dgp increasing rate was more than 10％ ? in ur life u difinately cannot see india supassing china.
and back to the topic. now thanks to india's foolish movement，people throughout china have seen india's true face. india is not a potential friend but an enemy. that's good as we can finally put india in a clearly right position in our foreign policy. from now on, we will try all the means, economic, geopolitical and military, to compete india. it's time to change our tolerance policy towards india. it is time to talk with antigovernment forces in india and support them. it's time to split india into fragments and more importantly, to liberate those poor people who are tolerate with india's corrupt rotten bureaucracy and false gods

 

[Figaro]

why do you take their uber nationalist sentiment this far??

There will be no war, this is not even on the table. Any war in that situation will extremely favour the people occupying the high ground (It's something we, the military personnel, called Reverse (Slope) Defilade position) only a moron of a military commander will try to assault UP THE HILL, without Gunship and Naval Support. Any one with simple tactical training would have suggest that's a suicide If you ask me to attack a hill 3000 meters up and too high for any gunship (Chinese don't have AC-130, only fast air and chopper), I would probably tell you to go to hell and report that over my chain of command. Or you may as well put a pistol on my head and execute me then and there.

There are no other way for China to solve this but peaceful mean via diplomatic dialogue. Military Option is a no go from Day 1. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

If you listed to people like @Keel @Jlaw @Martian2 or anyone of these Chinese member, you would probably have to facepalm yourself until your hand stuck in your face forever, there were this time this @Keel guy even say what I said about assaulting Doklam is stupid. Lol, yeah, right, Well, I can tell you this, Chinese Army is always the god almighty when you hide behind a keyboard, but in REALITY, if you ask people who know about this shit, they will probably just laugh it out like me. Yeah right, maybe they should actually assault Doklam and See what happened. For me a place called Tahuk Ghar comes to mind.

Anyway, give not much attention to these people, they are here for your entertainment, and if you take it too seriously, than it will not be good.

Dude. Do you even know an AC-130 works in the high mountain ranges? If it was so popular, then why has the US stopped its production and most of them being retired? If they were so effective, how come we weren't able to root out the Taliban with these strikes? Mountain warfare is restricted to light infantry and artillery; not heavy tanks or fighter-bombers. And I might ask why you think the Indian army has an advantage over the Chinese in Doklam? The only advantage I can think of is numerical which is largely offset by the Indian army's logistical issues. You're basically suggesting that the Indian army can overrun Chinese positions and vice-versa; if this so, may I ask why India decided to unilaterally withdraw? I'm sure that any experienced forum poster like @Martian2 would know that the Chinese have essentially every single operational advantage possible, which is why India backed down. And might I add that you're forgetting a small corridor called Siliguri which the PLA could overrun with ease, hence the India paranoia.

what a crying baby...tag people to get help

Very cowardly. He cannot stand on his own argument and has to invite people to back him up ... how disingenuous

 

[Brainsucker]

Dude. Do you even know an AC-130 works in the high mountain ranges? If it was so popular, then why has the US stopped its production and most of them being retired? If they were so effective, how come we weren't able to root out the Taliban with these strikes? Mountain warfare is restricted to light infantry and artillery; not heavy tanks or fighter-bombers. And I might ask why you think the Indian army has an advantage over the Chinese in Doklam? The only advantage I can think of is numerical which is largely offset by the Indian army's logistical issues. You're basically suggesting that the Indian army can overrun Chinese positions and vice-versa; if this so, may I ask why India decided to unilaterally withdraw? I'm sure that any experienced forum poster like @Martian2 would know that the Chinese have essentially every single operational advantage possible, which is why India backed down. And might I add that you're forgetting a small corridor called Siliguri which the PLA could overrun with ease, hence the India paranoia.

Very cowardly. He cannot stand on his own argument and has to invite people to back him up ... how disingenuous

And Chopter, I guess. Chopter that can fly over the high mountain can help the light infantry there. I dunno if the Chinese Z-10 and Z-19 can do it. Maybe it's the job of Z-18 and Z-20 only? Can someone tell me about this? But we talk about Himalaya, not mountain range in Afghanistan here.

 

[Figaro]

And Chopter, I guess. Chopter that can fly over the high mountain can help the light infantry there. I dunno if the Chinese Z-10 and Z-19 can do it. Maybe it's the job of Z-18 and Z-20 only? Can someone tell me about this?

I don't think the Z-10 and Z-19 are optimized to fly in such high altitudes, especially with the Z-10's current engine. The latter choppers are definitely much more suited for such environments.

 

[Brainsucker]

I don't think the Z-10 and Z-19 are optimized to fly in such high altitudes, especially with the Z-10's current engine. The latter choppers are definitely much more suited for such environments.

So you're right about only Light Infantry and Artillery there.

 

[jhungary]

Dude. Do you even know an AC-130 works in the high mountain ranges? If it was so popular, then why has the US stopped its production and most of them being retired? If they were so effective, how come we weren't able to root out the Taliban with these strikes? Mountain warfare is restricted to light infantry and artillery; not heavy tanks or fighter-bombers. And I might ask why you think the Indian army has an advantage over the Chinese in Doklam? The only advantage I can think of is numerical which is largely offset by the Indian army's logistical issues. You're basically suggesting that the Indian army can overrun Chinese positions and vice-versa; if this so, may I ask why India decided to unilaterally withdraw? I'm sure that any experienced forum poster like @Martian2 would know that the Chinese have essentially every single operational advantage possible, which is why India backed down. And might I add that you're forgetting a small corridor called Siliguri which the PLA could overrun with ease, hence the India paranoia.


Very cowardly. He cannot stand on his own argument and has to invite people to back him up ... how disingenuous

I am not going to tell you what I know or don't know, there is a reason why my title is "MILITARY PROFESSIONAL" and I have 304 Positive Rating, ask around, I am not going to tell you.

And from your post, you show ZERO tactical knowledge on the subject matter, why would India have to "Overrun" Chinese position when it was the Indian holding and dug in on the high ground around Doklam? Ask yourself this question, what do you know about Combat, and look at my profile before you decided to reply my post.

I am not going to waste my time with you here. Ciao

 

[Han Patriot]

I am not going to tell you what I know or don't know, there is a reason why my title is "MILITARY PROFESSIONAL" and I have 304 Positive Rating, ask around, I am not going to tell you.

And from your post, you show ZERO tactical knowledge on the subject matter, why would India have to "Overrun" Chinese position when it was the Indian holding and dug in on the high ground around Doklam? Ask yourself this question, what do you know about Combat, and look at my profile before you decided to reply my post.

I am not going to waste my time with you here. Ciao

Wow, you again? Bro, are you really that anti Chinese? India could never win this war, they know it and we know it. I am speaking from a neutral point of view. Their command structure is not even integrated, the air force does not know what the army is doing. The system is more bureaucratic than Chinese integrated command system.

Logistically speaking, the majority of Indian troops is below the plateau, and one a small mountain path connects them to Doklam. Chinese have grade 40 roads up to the conflict area. Most weapons are porduced in China, India needs to import them. Simple logics bro.

 

[jhungary]

Wow, you again? Bro, are you really that anti Chinese? India could never win this war, they know it and we know it. I am speaking from a neutral point of view. Their command structure is not even integrated, the air force does not know what the army is doing. The system is more bureaucratic than Chinese integrated command system.

Logistically speaking, the majority of Indian troops is below the plateau, and one a small mountain path connects them to Doklam. Chinese have grade 40 roads up to the conflict area. Most weapons are porduced in China, India needs to import them. Simple logics bro.

Well, first of all, you are not in a neutral point of view. Where as I was speaking on behalf of my experience as an INFANTY PLATOON LEADER and an Officer in the United States Army. I am speaking on my expertise and I don't really care if it was the Taliban on that mountain or Martian on that mountain, my view is as if my CO ask me to take that mountain.

How much do you know about Indian CNC to begin with? Other than the "Oh, they are primitive" point of view, Taliban wasn't really good in coordinating with their CP and LP and their Gun Nest, and they do have even process an Air Force, does that mean any force, including the US to Assault UP THE MOUNTAIN is an easy job?

Logically speaking, it does not matter where they are unless you can pin point all their FP on that hill, otherwise they will do something we called "Move" the DP is not statics and they can move around and jump from one point to the other, but the most important thing is, YOU CAN'T SEE THEM WHEN THEY ARE IN DEFILADE. While they can see you and you are the one that is going to have to assault, not them, which mean they can bring Mortar, Arty, or even call in Air Strike on your troop. You will basically need to brave the distant between your LOD and their DP and try to find any, if at all, cover to go from place, otherwise you are exposed to enemy indirect fire and will take damage along the way.

It doesn't really matter how China can produce their weapon, unless you are talking about a war that last years, because you cannot replenish your equipment in a rate that you can build a tank/artillery pieces/mortar tubes in one day and send it from your factory in North Eastern China to South Western China, not to mention that plcae have restricted road access and you can't really airlift much on the plateau.

So, Tactically, and Logistically, you are WRONG.

 

[Han Patriot]

Well, first of all, you are not in a neutral point of view. Where as I was speaking on behalf of my experience as an INFANTY PLATOON LEADER and an Officer in the United States Army. I am speaking on my expertise and I don't really care if it was the Taliban on that mountain or Martian on that mountain, my view is as if my CO ask me to take that mountain.

How much do you know about Indian CNC to begin with? Other than the "Oh, they are primitive" point of view, Taliban wasn't really good in coordinating with their CP and LP and their Gun Nest, and they do have even process an Air Force, does that mean any force, including the US to Assault UP THE MOUNTAIN is an easy job?

Logically speaking, it does not matter where they are unless you can pin point all their FP on that hill, otherwise they will do something we called "Move" the DP is not statics and they can move around and jump from one point to the other, but the most important thing is, YOU CAN'T SEE THEM WHEN THEY ARE IN DEFILADE. While they can see you and you are the one that is going to have to assault, not them, which mean they can bring Mortar, Arty, or even call in Air Strike on your troop. You will basically need to brave the distant between your LOD and their DP and try to find any, if at all, cover to go from place, otherwise you are exposed to enemy indirect fire and will take damage along the way.

It doesn't really matter how China can produce their weapon, unless you are talking about a war that last years, because you cannot replenish your equipment in a rate that you can build a tank/artillery pieces/mortar tubes in one day and send it from your factory in North Eastern China to South Western China, not to mention that plcae have restricted road access and you can't really airlift much on the plateau.

So, Tactically, and Logistically, you are WRONG.

My dear infantry expert, I am not talking about Afghanistan. I am talking about India, how much do I know? I know as much as what was told by the Indian side, they themselves admit their command system is segregated and urged for a unified system. How fast we can replenish, definitely faster than India bro. Use some common sense, India still need to order and apply for a budget to buy weapons. China can quickly send it to the border areas. Which is faster?

Btw, kinda lazy arguing with you since you tend to write essays about yourself before going to the main point. Stop writing essays, stick to the main point so people can refute your easily, instead of reading your story.

You can start by doing this:
1) xxx
2) xxxx

then i refute

1) xxxx
2) xxxx

See simple to read and debate. No time wasting.

 

[jhungary]

My dear infantry expert, I am not talking about Afghanistan. I am talking about India, how much do I know? I know as much as what was told by the Indian side, they themselves admit their command system is segregated and urged for a unified system.

1.)Indian C&C is similar to the Chinese or anyone in the world for that matter, I know because I was in that Area talking to people in Both Pakistan and Indian Officer in person, I don't guess, I was trained with these people with my time in West Asia.

Command Structure is not Segregated, but compartmentalise, and even US Armed Force is the same, I cannot talk to the Air Force direct, I have to delicate my order from my FAO and tell him what I want and the FAO tell the pilot in the sky what to do. This is the same across the planet, because otherwise you cannot be modular, which mean if you don't work with a certain group of people, you don't work at all.

How fast we can replenish, definitely faster than India bro. Use some common sense, India still need to order and apply for a budget to buy weapons. China can quickly send it to the border areas. Which is faster?

2.) And about Logistic, you are wrong, in war, logistic will be filled by recycling equipment from other TO&E structure first, and then recycle from cannibalisation, and if you still have a problem replacing and replenishing your equipment, then you start from replenishment from your production line. If we have a tank destroyed by IED in Helmand, we first pull a tank from an inactive company already deployed in Afghanistan, then if we can't, we pull a tank from nearby bases (in South Korea or Japan), if I still can't do it, then I will try to find parts and fix that tank by taking parts from other damage tanks. Then we start talking about building a new tank if that does not works. The US fought in Afghanistan for 10 years, how many New M1 Abrams Tank did we make?

You don't dip into your production line unless you suffer from a cartographic lost of equipment, otherwise the ability to replenish is largely unrelated to how you can produce your own equipment. That's battlefield logistic.

Btw, kinda lazy arguing with you since you tend to write essays about yourself before going to the main point. Stop writing essays, stick to the main point so people can refute your easily, instead of reading your story.

You can start by doing this:
1) xxx
2) xxxx

then i refute

1) xxxx
2) xxxx

See simple to read and debate. No time wasting.

3.) if you have problem looking thru points in a 100 word essay (It's hardly an essay to begin with) then I would suggest that you have a comprehension problem

 

[Han Patriot]

1.)Indian C&C is similar to the Chinese, I know because I was in that Area talking to people in Both Pakistan and Indian Officer in person, I don't guess, I was trained with these people with my time in West Asia.

Command Structure is not Segregated, but compartmentalise, and even US Armed Force is the same, I cannot talk to the Air Force direct, I have to delicate my order from my FAO and tell him what I want and the FAO tell the pilot in the sky what to do. This is the same across the planet, because otherwise you cannot be modular, which mean if you don't work with a certain group of people, you don't work at all.



2.) And about Logistic, you are wrong, if a war Logistic will be filled by recycling equipment from other TO&E structure first, and then recycle from cannibalisation, and if you still have a problem replacing and replenishing your equipment, then you start from replenishment from your production line. If we have a tank destroyed by IED in Helmand, we first pull a tank from an inactive company already deployed in Afghanistan, then if we can't, we pull a tank from nearby bases (in South Korea or Japan), if I still can't do it, then I will try to find parts and fix that tank by taking parts from other damage tanks. Then we start talking about building a new tank if that does not works. The US fought in Afghanistan for 10 years, how many New M1 Abrams Tank did we make?

You don't dip into your production line unless you suffer from a cartographic lost of equipment, otherwise the ability to replenish is largely unrelated to how you can produce your own equipment. That's battlefield logistic.



3.) if you have problem looking thru points in a 100 word essay (It's hardly an essay to begin with) then I would suggest that you have a comprehension problem

Omg, another essay. Dude, I give up. First time encountering a Viet who can bullshit better than Indians.

 

[jhungary]

Omg, another essay. Dude, I give up. First time encountering a Viet who can bullshit better than Indians.

yeah, again, if you can't read a 200 words passage, you probably have no use in a forum like this.

Now, go play with other 5 years old, please

 

[baajey]

congrats to dear Chinese and Indian members at the diffusion of the little military standoff we saw earlier.
may god bless us with such presence of mind on both sides in difficult situation such as this.
cheerio