Reasons why J-20 isn't PAF's requirement

[WarFariX]

Another good post Sir.

The only issue for me is the order of LO (Low Observability) / Stealth involved between PAKFA and J-20.

The PAKFA has been derogated in terms of its stealth. It's not very stealthy. You won't find a single article that would say it's reasonably stealthy, leave alone comparable to the F-22 or F-35. In some forums and articles the frontal clean RCS has been stated to be 0.5 msq. That would make it less stealthier than the Rafale which has an RCS between 0.2 - 0.5 msq.

The J-20 on the other hand has not suffered any such derogation by the experts. In fact it has been identified as a potential threat if available / deployed in numbers. But still it too lags behind in stealthy-ness to the F-22 and F-35.

In the BVR arena, in my humble opinion, J-20 and PAKFA are not equal. The J-20 would have a clear advantage over the PAKFA. But you're right that it would be eaten alive in WVR by the PAKFA with or without HOBS missiles. But the same thing would happen to the J-31, albeit to a lesser degree.

All has not gone well with the PAKFA program. The T-50 flew almost a year before the J-20. The latter has gone into SBP and is going to mass production soon (if not already). Not so with the PAKFA. It is scheduled for SBP in 2017 provided all trials succeed.

Just my 2 cents.

food points u highlighted sir....now the what i think is that currently t50 is facing stealthiness problems while j20 is combat ready almost. only engine problem persists....but the thing is whenever in future russia inducts t50 , it will definitely be problem solved or simple , russia wont induct rather throw the project or use it to create a better platform....so currently no one can determine the bvr fight off these 2

 

[aliyusuf]

so currently no one can determine the bvr fight off these 2

Respectfully I would say the deck is stacked in favor of the J-20 in the stealth / bvr arena in comparison to the PAKFA. Rest assured that China is not sitting pretty on it's accomplishments and is already working on the next generation of fighters and sensors. You might want to read up on Quantum Entanglement / Entangled Groups and Quantum Radars and China's foray into it.

 

[Wolf]

PAK-FA will outmatch J-20 so j20 would he a sitting duck in that scenerio...j20 is more of a long range heavy bomber fighter but with good a2a capabilities....i would recommend an F16 type stealtg fighter in that scenerio to at least match with that level....pakfa wont come tho

J 20 will keep on evolving and please explain the reason why J 20 will be a sitting duck and F16 (sanctions prone) won't.

 

[WarFariX]

J 20 will keep on evolving and please explain the reason why J 20 will be a sitting duck and F16 (sanctions prone) won't.

try to understand what i wrote again brother

 

[Ultima Thule]

off course i know the details...now lets get into detailed discussion with technical point of views...its very rare that 2 5th gen jets will have successfull bvr kills so the matter will come to dogfights...during dogfights , the stealth doesn't come handy much, provided that J-20 is too large jet butlets forget this point for some time....think about hmd and irst scenerio here....J-20 uses EOTS for aerial targets instead of irst but the details of its angle are confedential....meanwhile the irst on pakfa may provide 135°+- scanning view.......here it might have upper hand....2nd point is that we all know currently J-20 isnt that much maneuverable but later also even it wont be as much maneuverable as much as pak fa coz of design

But J-20 can detect PAK FA with its radar engage it first with WVR because PAK FA has comparatively high RCS than J-20

 

[WarFariX]

But J-20 can detect PAK FA with its radar engage it first with WVR because PAK FA has comparatively high RCS than J-20

pakfa isn't combat readywhile j20 is

 

[ghauri05]

But for the 5th Gen PAF has two options:

2- J-31 possibly..
China is making its J-31 (other name FC-60) for a an export competitor to the nations who cannot afford Lockheed F-35....
Reports were that Pakistan is Interested in buying 36-40 of these fighters back in 2012 at ZHUHAI.
J-31 prototype 2 has made many nations under consideration too wait and watch its capabilities......

!Now As fanboys were saying Pakistan will surely buy J-20 fighter...Its my humble request that First oF all CHINA STATED A LONG TIME AGO THIS IS A NON-EXPORT VERSION...NO matters how close freinds are but a country never changes its own policy and dont sacrifice it for freindship...

Secondly it is JUST ALOT Well TO MUCH HEAVY for PAF..... WE ARE LOOKING WHAT WE NEED...

NOW THERE ARE TWO RIValS IN THE FIELD:
1-F-35
2-J-31

PLZ MAKE THEM UNDER CONSIDERATION AND GIVE YOUR ANALYSIS ABOUT THEM.

@MarvellousThunder@PDC

Tell me...one thing...does Pak not need a plane which can carry more armament and hit at long distance....given the size of india...we actually need one fighter which can penetrate inside india at hit the farthest targets possible..don't we???
On the other hand our country is smaller and india is going for PAKFA..which is along range heavy fighter...believe me if india gets f-35 it will fit for their requirement to hit Pak....but the opposite is not true...it will be again the same case just like f16 vs su30...do u want PAF to continue with this dilemma ????

One more thing...i like about indians is..they get weapons to overpower their enemy..while we go fot the minimum requirement and that puts us on back foot.. if we want to defend our country and win a war...we need to go for some heavy weapons..not in huge numbers...numbers should be managed according to our needs but quality and facility should not be compromised.

 

[WarFariX]

Tell me...one thing...does Pak not need a plane which can carry more armament and hit at long distance....given the size of india...we actually need one fighter which can penetrate inside india at hit the farthest targets possible..don't we???
On the other hand our country is smaller and india is going for PAKFA..which is along range heavy fighter...believe me if india gets f-35 it will fit for their requirement to hit Pak....but the opposite is not true...it will be again the same case just like f16 vs su30...do u want PAF to continue with this dilemma ????

One more thing...i like about indians is..they get weapons to overpower their enemy..while we go fot the minimum requirement and that puts us on back foot.. if we want to defend our country and win a war...we need to go for some heavy weapons..not in huge numbers...numbers should be managed according to our needs but quality and facility should not be compromised.

u have raised an excellent point bro.
Now here's the thing :
Country like india which will have s400 air defence systems plus that country is heavily armed with air defences all accross...do u think that 5th gen jet could so easily reach delhi or deeper? The simple answer is NO. Till the jets reach some where 200km inside (if get past the air defences) , another defensive squadrons of IAF would arrive soon to counter them in numbers. So the idea of deep strike using air force is according to my thoughts weak (off course i may be wrong and i may have some something to keep in mind) .Even J-20 wont survive too many defensive layers. This is where we get to use our strategic forces armaments such as ballistic missiles or tactical.

 

[SleepingLion]

Normally, I do not point out English language errors as English is not my first language.

However, please be careful with words, as the highlighted.

Definition of 'suppostitory':

a solid medical preparation in a roughly conical or cylindrical shape, designed to be inserted into the rectum or vagina to dissolve.

Other than that -- carry on.

My friend it was a typo!

 

[WarFariX]

Tell me...one thing...does Pak not need a plane which can carry more armament and hit at long distance....given the size of india...we actually need one fighter which can penetrate inside india at hit the farthest targets possible..don't we???
On the other hand our country is smaller and india is going for PAKFA..which is along range heavy fighter...believe me if india gets f-35 it will fit for their requirement to hit Pak....but the opposite is not true...it will be again the same case just like f16 vs su30...do u want PAF to continue with this dilemma ????

One more thing...i like about indians is..they get weapons to overpower their enemy..while we go fot the minimum requirement and that puts us on back foot.. if we want to defend our country and win a war...we need to go for some heavy weapons..not in huge numbers...numbers should be managed according to our needs but quality and facility should not be compromised.

Now as for deep strike ,PAF needs a highly maneuverable 5th gen platform so that it can evade SAMs while J-20 may have less chances of getting past soo many SAMs. As mentioned by our bro Aliyusuf above that PAK fa is lacking stealth capabilities so by chance even if pakfa lands in india , they wont give them edge...PAF has its own plans of air superiority 5th program according to some high level analysts...F-35 has high chances according to my views to enter india but dont forget , something even bigger might happen as MIG is working secretly on a 5th gen stealth platform so there is a possibility india might go for it . PAK FA needs serious help now and i have read in chinese forums that china will help russia now in making pak fa perfect so in that case bye bye indian dreams of pak fa...do u have any idea why russia agred for S400 and all the other high level deals? simple. russia has 0 mood of giving pak fa to india (maybe coz of its tech ) and in compensation of the pakfa money invested from indian side, s400 ,supersukhoi and many other deals will take place....note this

 

[WarFariX]

Thank you everyone for your sweet and helpful replies and i will definitely give credit to all of you under the article when i complete it with further points of mine in few weeks after exams...but you all are open to give more of your views..thnx very much

 

[Zain Malik]

Thank you everyone for your sweet and helpful replies and i will definitely give credit to all of you under the article when i complete it with further points of mine in few weeks after exams...but you all are open to give more of your views..thnx very much

 

[STEVEN囧]

J20 will be updated in the near future in terms of engine.Now we are using WS-10B and the capacity is not enough.We are developing WS-15 and will equip in the near future.We have a long way to materialize the mass production.Some friends said that J20 is equipped with Russia engine.Our major general has made the conclusion that our J20 is using Chinese domestic engine now.But if J20 really want to compete with F22 or surpass it to some extent,we must equip WS-15 at least.
It is impossible to export J20 to Pakistan in the near future because it is not a consummate platform so far.IMHO,J31 is not possible in the near future.Because PLA airforce still doesn't deploy it and we need to test it fully.Except it may happen that Pakistan has severely potentional warfare with some nations.
But I think if possible,China and Pakistan could jointly develop a 5th-generaion aircraft suitable for Pakistan.The assembly line and R&D center is in Pakistan.Now Pakistan has JF-17 ,why not 5th-generation aircraft.

 

[Zain Malik]

Tell me...one thing...does Pak not need a plane which can carry more armament and hit at long distance....given the size of india...we actually need one fighter which can penetrate inside india at hit the farthest targets possible..don't we???
On the other hand our country is smaller and india is going for PAKFA..which is along range heavy fighter...believe me if india gets f-35 it will fit for their requirement to hit Pak....but the opposite is not true...it will be again the same case just like f16 vs su30...do u want PAF to continue with this dilemma ????

One more thing...i like about indians is..they get weapons to overpower their enemy..while we go fot the minimum requirement and that puts us on back foot.. if we want to defend our country and win a war...we need to go for some heavy weapons..not in huge numbers...numbers should be managed according to our needs but quality and facility should not be compromised.

You are talking about India....!!!

Compare the defense budget of Pakistan and india..!!! they even can get pak fa and jsf both at same time....but we dont...
we have limited defence budget ... now talking about it will be minor less advance to the Chengdu but Chinese are not that fool they are making an aircraft specially for export and a rival to F-35 in the market and they compromise on its quality ... never..!!!

 

[ghauri05]

You are talking about India....!!!

Compare the defense budget of Pakistan and india..!!! they even can get pak fa and jsf both at same time....but we dont...
we have limited defence budget ... now talking about it will be minor less advance to the Chengdu but Chinese are not that fool they are making an aircraft specially for export and a rival to F-35 in the market and they compromise on its quality ... never..!!!

I think you didn't read my post clearly...i clearly said we should manage the numbers...i.e. we should get both J-31 and J-20...more squadrons of J-31 and less of J-20. so that we don't give our opponent any advantage..but actually it is a dire need of PAF to have this combo...
Your sole logic is based on budget..but you couldn't deny my reason why we should have J-20....if money is the only problem money can be managed and spend wisely to acquire both assets in reasonable numbers so that we maintain a qualitative edge on our enemy.