Reasons why J-20 isn't PAF's requirement

[WarFariX]

Ok write a letter to your government to consider this for your airfroce...

THIS thread is made for "Why PAkistan dont need J-20" IF you cant reply on topic ..... I think you know about the "BAckSPace" Key on your keyboard PRESS it and GOH.


I think WS-15A will be ok In coming years...IT gives advantage over SAturns.....

WS-13e

 

[Zain Malik]

WS-13e

I have heard that for Stealths this is WS-15 under development.

 

[MilSpec]

https://defence.pk/threads/paf-the-ramifications-of-rafales-sale-to-india.427156/page-2#post-8248013

 

[WarFariX]

https://defence.pk/threads/paf-the-ramifications-of-rafales-sale-to-india.427156/page-2#post-8248013

thread not available

 

[WarFariX]

I have heard that for Stealths this is WS-15 under development.

ws15 for j20
ws13e reportedly for FC31

 

[MilSpec]

thread not available

There are two possible options J31 as popular choice of the forum and the j20 which I think would be game changer.

J31 is the optimal addition if the PAF mandate of denying air superiority to India remains the same.

If the mandate of the PAF changes, which is the aspirations of most Pakistanis where PAF would want to take the fight away from it's airspace into the Indian airspace, then J31 doesn't fit the bill, let me propose the J20 platform would be a more potent albeit slightly more expensive system or a CFT variant of the J31 with extended range.

Engine: The J31's use the same Klimov RD 93 engines as of now on the test bed which may or may not be replaced by a chinese variant. Compare the J31 ranges with the Mig 35/ Mig29 OVT and Mig 29 K which uses the most recent variant of the RD33 series - RD33 MK, similar 17.5 Ton loaded/Gross weight, the ferry range of the Mig 35 is 3100Km with 3 Ext Drop tanks, whereas the J31 is being advertised as a 4000 Km Ferry range.Given that both aircrafts are of similar empty weight around 11-11.5 tons and have a 17.5 ton loaded weight, there is a good chance that both carry similar internal fuel, thus the combat range of the J31 in stealth configuration might not be1200 Km as advertised, rather around 500-600 Kms similar to that of a F16. That would put the idea of deep strike into a pickle.

Airframe: AVIC says that a lot of additive mfg was used in the test bed, and hence could not be dis-assembled during the transportation for testing. As the production models are out to 2019, if any of the RP techniques make it into the production model it will be a nightmare of maintenance and fitment. In addition the airframe was reported to bleed a lot of energy in it's first appearance, hopefully by the production variant those issues might be resolved.





Source: https://defence.pk/threads/paf-the-...les-sale-to-india.427156/page-2#ixzz4PzrZTJXG

 

[WarFariX]

There are two possible options J31 as popular choice of the forum and the j20 which I think would be game changer.

J31 is the optimal addition if the PAF mandate of denying air superiority to India remains the same.

If the mandate of the PAF changes, which is the aspirations of most Pakistanis where PAF would want to take the fight away from it's airspace into the Indian airspace, then J31 doesn't fit the bill, let me propose the J20 platform would be a more potent albeit slightly more expensive system or a CFT variant of the J31 with extended range.

Engine: The J31's use the same Klimov RD 93 engines as of now on the test bed which may or may not be replaced by a chinese variant. Compare the J31 ranges with the Mig 35/ Mig29 OVT and Mig 29 K which uses the most recent variant of the RD33 series - RD33 MK, similar 17.5 Ton loaded/Gross weight, the ferry range of the Mig 35 is 3100Km with 3 Ext Drop tanks, whereas the J31 is being advertised as a 4000 Km Ferry range.Given that both aircrafts are of similar empty weight around 11-11.5 tons and have a 17.5 ton loaded weight, there is a good chance that both carry similar internal fuel, thus the combat range of the J31 in stealth configuration might not be1200 Km as advertised, rather around 500-600 Kms similar to that of a F16. That would put the idea of deep strike into a pickle.

Airframe: AVIC says that a lot of additive mfg was used in the test bed, and hence could not be dis-assembled during the transportation for testing. As the production models are out to 2019, if any of the RP techniques make it into the production model it will be a nightmare of maintenance and fitment. In addition the airframe was reported to bleed a lot of energy in it's first appearance, hopefully by the production variant those issues might be resolved.





Source: https://defence.pk/threads/paf-the-...les-sale-to-india.427156/page-2#ixzz4PzrZTJXG

Best answer

 

[Hassan Guy]

I thought F-35 was the best.

All F-16 operators like Turkey and Israel are getting those.

 

[WarFariX]

I thought F-35 was the best.

All F-16 operators like Turkey and Israel are getting those.

we are not turkey and israel unfortunately :-(

 

[Hassan Guy]

we are not turkey and israel unfortunately :-(

Unfortunately? Last thing we need is another jewish country in this world.

On the other hand, I think we should look at the F-35. It will probably be better than any fighter the Indians will induct including the SU-50 and Rafale. Even 2-3 squadrons will make a big difference.

If our govt can fund the deal on their own, then there is no way a guy like Trump would turn a deal like that down. We can't blame the US for the F-16 restrictions.........because they paid for them.

 

[SleepingLion]

What if you want to attack a country far from you! you need a stealth long range suppository fighter like J-20.
Otherwise most likely another aircraft will be intercepted in the middle of the mission.

 

[WarFariX]

What if you want to attack a country far from you! you need a stealth long range suppository fighter like J-20.
Otherwise most likely another aircraft will be intercepted in the middle of the mission.

mention name of country for precision...tankers are available plus allied countries could provide grounds for refueling

 

[khanmubashir]

Look guys. First of all please dont delete thread. This is a very serious issue that i want to address. We people who have good knowledge of PAF and their requirement know that J-20 is not even required by us even though its export is not cleared. Now i want You all respected people to give reasons why it is not required by us . I will use the reasons to make an article with my already exisiting reasons on this issue and post the article on my FB page Pakistan Defence Command. You may start now
@Horus @Bratva @MastanKhan @Zarvan @waz @Khafee @araz @HRK @BlueMarlin @Oscar @grey boy 2 @Windjammer @The Eagle

for comparing unctions 2 4 g jets j20 is like stealth tornado
meaning tornado was designed as long range attack bomber primarily to destroy ground targets deep inside enemy with added capabilities of interceptor for its bombers but not optimum for air combat Same looks In case of j20 but with stealth for stealth fighter they r developing smaller jet j31 which is kind of like stealth MIG 29
and we need stealth fighter not heavy long range stealth attack bomber and there news of j31 being evaluated b paf

 

[SQ8]

Look guys. First of all please dont delete thread. This is a very serious issue that i want to address. We people who have good knowledge of PAF and their requirement know that J-20 is not even required by us even though its export is not cleared. Now i want You all respected people to give reasons why it is not required by us . I will use the reasons to make an article with my already exisiting reasons on this issue and post the article on my FB page Pakistan Defence Command. You may start now
@Horus @Bratva @MastanKhan @Zarvan @waz @Khafee @araz @HRK @BlueMarlin @Oscar @grey boy 2 @Windjammer @The Eagle

1. Large aircraft with greater maintenance issues
2. Optimized for long range penetration through a much wider ranging but less dense air defense environment.
3. Long distance targets are essentially only 20% of PAF "keystone" requirements. We want the Indian front like to grind to a halt; not invade India. Only targets that deep are much lower on the priority list as with time India has made multiple redundancy plans for its core C4I that are spread further back.
4. Expensive to procure and operate when compared to a smaller aircraft. Compare with available budget and requirments along with well developed PAF stand off capabilities; it is a distant luxury, not a must.

 

[Naif al Hilali]

...
Engine: The J31's use the same Klimov RD 93 engines as of now on the test bed which may or may not be replaced by a chinese variant. Compare the J31 ranges with the Mig 35/ Mig29 OVT and Mig 29 K which uses the most recent variant of the RD33 series - RD33 MK, similar 17.5 Ton loaded/Gross weight, the ferry range of the Mig 35 is 3100Km with 3 Ext Drop tanks, whereas the J31 is being advertised as a 4000 Km Ferry range.Given that both aircrafts are of similar empty weight around 11-11.5 tons and have a 17.5 ton loaded weight, there is a good chance that both carry similar internal fuel, thus the combat range of the J31 in stealth configuration might not be1200 Km as advertised, rather around 500-600 Kms similar to that of a F16. That would put the idea of deep strike into a pickle.
...

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

You do know that the F-16A had much greater range and combat persistence than the F-15A and was still better than the F-15C model after the F-15 was hastily re-designed to add a couple of thousand pounds of extra internal fuel over the A model.

I cannot estimate internal fuel fractions even when I see a cutaway drawing. i wonder how it can be estimated from the outside. The Su-35 can carry 11.5 tons internal fuel vs. 9.4 tons for the Su-30. Yet, it seems more svelte from the outside and someone might wager that it carries less fuel just by eyeballing it.

Regards