Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[JonAsad]

And we come back to the same questions yet again:

Does RD have 'absolute diplomatic immunity'?
Does RD have 'limited diplomatic immunity'?
Does RD have no diplomatic immunity?

Its been posted before, i think

Foreign Office concludes Davis is not a diplomat

By Ansar Abbasi
Sunday, February 06, 2011

ISLAMABAD: The Foreign Ministry has concluded that Raymond Davis, the American killer of two Pakistanis, is a non-diplomatic staff member of the US Consulate, who was given a certain level of immunity but not absolute immunity, it is learnt.

A reliable source in the Foreign Office confided to The News that official documents have proved that the American killer is not an accredited US diplomat but is a “non-diplomatic staff” of the US embassy.

The source said despite being a non-diplomatic staff, Davis was notified in January 2010 to have been enjoying diplomatic immunity, explained that the immunity offered to Davis is not absolute. The absolute immunity, it is said, is offered to only a few key members of the mission.

Davis, who is presently being probed by Punjab police following a remand given by the Lahore district court, was in possession of a diplomatic passport with a “business official” visa. He told police that he is serving as technical advisor in the US embassy.

The Foreign Office sources clearly say that there is a lot of difference between absolute immunity and the limited-one that is given to non-diplomatic staff like Raymond Davis.

Absolute immunity under the Geneva Convention, these sources said, is offered to selected members of any foreign mission. The limited-diplomatic immunity is given to otherwise non-entitled members of the mission but on the request of the sending country.

To a question if a non-diplomatic staff given limited-diplomatic immunity can be treated like those diplomats who under the Geneva Convention enjoy absolute immunity, the Foreign Office source gave an unambiguous “No”.

The source said the Foreign Office, which is preparing a reply for the Lahore High Court on the matter, is presently pondering over the technical issue of whether the limited-diplomatic immunity covers the kind of killing done by Raymond Davis, who was carrying illicit weapon, used excessive and disproportionate use of force, boarding a vehicle with fake registration number and possessing objectionable material.

The Foreign Office’s thinking is truly reflected by two former Foreign Secretaries Riaz Khokhar and Akram Zaki. Riaz Khokhar recently told The News, “No diplomat or non-diplomatic staffer claiming immunity can carry in his car telescope, binocular, maps, masks and such like things and then kill two young men at will. What is the purpose of having all these instruments and tools?”

Diplomatic immunity, according to Khokhar, carries certain rights as well as obligations. It is mandatory for such a recipient to strictly obey the law, rules and regulations of a country of his posting, he said and added that it would be a gross stupidity of the government, if it agrees to provide immunity to Davis by manipulating and bending the law.

Khokhar said merely carrying a diplomatic passport brings no immunity whatsoever to any crime. A diplomatic passport is just a facility, he said, adding that the list of diplomats given protection is prepared by the Foreign Office and the embassy concerned, and there could be no deviation from it.

He explained that the government had issued diplomatic passports to a large number of people including family members of the prime minister, but this did not mean they could commit crimes in a foreign land and then claim immunity which cannot be available to them in any case, he said.

Akram Zaki had explained to The News that immunity available to the non-diplomatic staffers, which was called functional, was restricted to non-interference in the performance of their duties. Like for example, an MP can’t be arrested when he is going to parliament, but can be apprehended if he has committed an offence otherwise but he has no exemption from the offence that he has committed. There are two types of immunities - absolute and functional.

Certainly, according to Zaki, if such a non-diplomatic staffer murders someone, he is not performing his duty because such an act cannot be included in his functions. That is why, he was quoted by The News as saying, such accused had to be arrested and tried for the heinous crime under the law of the land.

 

[ashok321]

You know how much the debt of the US is?

$12 trillion. Now sod off.

You are not worried about your own debt, and came (instead) for US which has hard currency to maintain itself.

If I were you I would be worried about my own.

 

[VelocuR]

The choice is simple:

Release Davis and lose the government

or

take it to trial and then either release or punish him.

 

[American Eagle]

The international law fact remains that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity, was put upon by two armed crooks who had moments before robbed two Pakitani men also at gun point. The Pakistani men's two cell phones were recovered by Lahore Police from the two Pakitani robbers.

You might try another line of work there in China instead of this made up stuff here.

 

[ashok321]

Release Davis and lose the government

He would be released and GOP would be intact....

And you would hear the stories of how GOP walked the tight rope and saved the nation from potential US animosity.

 

[Developereo]

This time nuclear armed Pakistan, no sane mind will want Pakistan to fail, and the consequences, you should know that.

Let's argue our case from a position of moral strength, which we have in this case, instead of nuclear blackmail.

Shumaila drank pesticides, I imagine it was a painful end for her...

Rat poison causes violent spasms in the major muscles until they rip themselves off the bones. It is an excruciatingly painful way to die.

 

[VCheng]

Let's argue our case from a position of moral strength, which we have in this case, instead of nuclear blackmail.

We have lost our moral strength over decades and decades of grovelling by our rulers, and we as a people will not regain it overnight.

Rat poison causes violent spasms in the major muscles until they rip themselves off the bones. It is an excruciatingly painful way to die.

Medicines can be used to control and even reverse these effects if administered in time. Please remember that suicide is HARAAM is Islam, no matter how noble the intent may seem to us.

 

[Developereo]

We have lost our moral strength over decades and decades of grovelling by our rulers, and we as a people will not regain it overnight.

My biggest anger is not at the Americans but our own police. By now they should have conducted investigations and issued clear statements of fact regarding:

- did these two guys rob anyone previously?
- did they ever threaten Davis in any way?
- were the bullets fired into or out of the car?

These are all questions unrelated to diplomatic immunity and can be answered in parallel.

If these guys were indeed crooks then it makes a fool out of everybody protesting their death. It will make it that much harder for us to complani on legitimate matters.

If they are innocent, then the anger is justified.

The delay makes it seem like they are waiting for Davis to be released so they can cook up a consistent cover story.

 

[sergente rehan]

There weren't only two people dead...everybody here ignore the third person which got killed by U.S. consulate veichle. It's a third murder and must be punished. We must provide justice to these families!

 

[VCheng]

There weren't only two people dead...everybody here ignore the third person which got killed by U.S. consulate veichle. It's a third murder and must be punished. We must provide justice to these families!

Very true, but the third death is a road accident in which the consulate vehicle was being driven by a Pakistani national. That case should be considered on its own merits independently of RD's incident.

 

[VCheng]

My biggest anger is not at the Americans but our own police. By now they should have conducted investigations and issued clear statements of fact regarding:

- did these two guys rob anyone previously?
- did they ever threaten Davis in any way?
- were the bullets fired into or out of the car?

These are all questions unrelated to diplomatic immunity and can be answered in parallel.

If these guys were indeed crooks then it makes a fool out of everybody protesting their death. It will make it that much harder for us to complani on legitimate matters.

If they are innocent, then the anger is justified.

The delay makes it seem like they are waiting for Davis to be released so they can cook up a consistent cover story.

There is plenty of blame to go around, including the police, but please do not ignore the other major contributing factors within Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

Look your point has two fallacies.

2. Mr. Davis' case, solely on self-defence grounds, is pretty solid.

There are multitudes of witnesses stating he went after them and then unloaded several bullets into them. The Autopsy report confirms that.

Even so, that will be a good win-win for all. We don't the blood of an American, we want to set a precedence where by the next Raymond Davis will know what all is in store for them by Killing Pakistanis...

Anyway, the federal government may betray the nation, but otherwise the mood in Pakistan is to not release him no matter what happens and take it to court. Then the court can declare it was self-defence, no problem.

In fact if Davis is pulled out, so should the entire US mission, because after you take away the courts justice system, you're left with the mob justice system.

 

[American Eagle]

You re partially right in that what has "driven" things thus far has been lynch mob justice idiotic statments and the ususal wild eyed false allegations of everything to include that "Someone stole my peanut butter sandwich and it had to have been the Americans who did it."

The two crooks per the Lahore Police had a history of 3-4 crimes, per the media all over Pakistan from day one.

Do folks not understand that the police have told the media they recovered the two stolen cell phones and much cash taken from the two Paksitani gentlemen there in Lahore, same day, just before the crooks had their failed stick up attempt against Mr. Davis.

The failure thus far has been the Pakistan Foreign Office slow action acknowledging that Mr. Davis has a Diplomatic Passport and a properly issued VISA from Islamabad endorsing his diplomatic passport . His dipolmatic immunity under international law has never, ever been in doubt. What has caused much confusion has been someone in the Pakistani FO writing local administrative guidance which is in conflict with and subordinate to International Law regarding diplomatic immunity.

Like him or not the Pakistani Interior Minister early only admitted to Mr. Davis has both a Diplomatic Passport and a Pakistani VISA good until June 2012.

The rest has been phoney, too. There have been no large demonstrations. A small group of relatives and idyl rubber neckers in Lahore protested without recognizing or being able to understand that the two crooks died in the line of their work, trying to stick up Mr. Davis which is and was done by pointing their two, one each, both recovered by the police, pistols at him. Davis defended himself, and there was no other purpose involved than that, self defense with diplomatic immunity.Basta.

 

[W.11]

You re partially right in that what has "driven" things thus far has been lynch mob justice idiotic statments and the ususal wild eyed false allegations of everything to include that "Someone stole my peanut butter sandwich and it had to have been the Americans who did it."

The two crooks per the Lahore Police had a history of 3-4 crimes, per the media all over Pakistan from day one.

Do folks not understand that the police have told the media they recovered the two stolen cell phones and much cash taken from the two Paksitani gentlemen there in Lahore, same day, just before the crooks had their failed stick up attempt against Mr. Davis.

The failure thus far has been the Pakistan Foreign Office slow action acknowledging that Mr. Davis has a Diplomatic Passport and a properly issued VISA from Islamabad endorsing his diplomatic passport . His dipolmatic immunity under international law has never, ever been in doubt. What has caused much confusion has been someone in the Pakistani FO writing local administrative guidance which is in conflict with and subordinate to International Law regarding diplomatic immunity.

Like him or not the Pakistani Interior Minister early only admitted to Mr. Davis has both a Diplomatic Passport and a Pakistani VISA good until June 2012.

The rest has been phoney, too. There have been no large demonstrations. A small group of relatives and idyl rubber neckers in Lahore protested without recognizing or being able to understand that the two crooks died in the line of their work, trying to stick up Mr. Davis which is and was done by pointing their two, one each, both recovered by the police, pistols at him. Davis defended himself, and there was no other purpose involved than that, self defense with diplomatic immunity.Basta.

hello AE,

please answer, what was an illegal weapon doing in the hands of a 'diplomat'??? and why did he go to the crime seen took pictures and possibly planted some kind of evidence, what kind of a diplomat is trained like that, like a cia r an intelligence guy??? and where is the second american who killed an 'innocent' yup an innocent pakistani, and why US allowed him to escape, now dont say the third guy was also robber or criminal, or say all pakistanis are criminals, shoot all these baste*ds!!! drone them, or nuke them for good, evil pakistanis??

 

[VCheng]

AE retracted his post before I could reply.

Please take a look here at the US debt and how it is increasing:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time