Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[VCheng]

Which is why Shumaila killed her self, she too had this belief... She expects total bay hissy from the Pakistani people.

A person burned him self and governments have started toppling in the Middle East.

Shumaila drank pesticides, I imagine it was a painful end for her... The blame would be upon us all if we didn't do our part to at least make the matter go to court...

Tragic as her end is, it does nothing to change my views, which are rooted in pragmatism, and only reinforced by the long standing and strongly proven history of the Pakistani nation's bayhissy.

 

[ares]

AFAIK, US flood aid is out of the KLL funds, not in addition to them.

Only a portion of it was from KLB :$50 million from original 377 million committed plus extra $43 million will be diverted from KLB for reconstruction.

Military funding will likely not cease unless the US wants yet another major confrontation on logistical support for ISAF forces in Afghanistan.

As topic is US cutting off all aid to pakistan..we have to take into account strategic partnership has ended and US is no longer using Pakistani logistics.

Even the ADB and IDB are withholding funds until the GoP manages to convince the IMF of its intention to implement the agreed upon economic reforms.

Given the slim chance of the GoP implementing tough economic reforms, budgetary support from international financial institutions is under threat in any case.

ADB, IDB, WB ,IMF are all with holding funds awaiting IMF's letter of comfort and there is no way Pakistan can get this letter..if USA votes against it.

If the US leaves Afghanistan, then Pakistan will in fact find it easier to defeat the Taliban from an ideological standpoint, since they will have lost one of their major propaganda/brainwashing tools of 'fighting the foreign invasion of Afghanistan and the Pakistan Army that supports it'.

It may not be an ideal situation, but it can be worked with.

End of strategic partnership, may not be the end US operations in Afghanistan ..there are ways she can support her troops...they have fixed timetable and I think they will stick to it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It sounds weird but that's how it works. You might not like it but its legality is not subject to your liking.

There's a whole history of diplomatic immunity being abused across nations. Even in the western world.

If you take a look at this excerpt about the Pakistani diplomat allegedly soliciting prostitutes in London, it is clear that the diplomat produced papers establishing his credentials to the police. The implication being that he would have been arrested had he not been able to establish diplomatic immunity:

Police sources are quoted in the Sun newspaper as having said: "There was a lot of shouting and confusion. He then produced identification showing him to be the military attache for the Pakistan Embassy. He demanded immunity from prosecution and the officers were forced to let him go.''​

Pak diplomat does a Hugh Grant in London, caught​

 

[The HBS Guy]

after arrest

That's where I disagree, AM. You're saying 'after arrest' and I'm saying 'before arrest'.

Oh and international conventions are not framed according to the qualifications of South Asian policemen. They are the same around the world for all nations.

BTW even if the said policeman made a mistake by arresting him, some senior officer in the police should have followed the proper procedure which involves confirming diplomatic immunity with the FO before placing the individual under formal arrest.

That's where Pakistani police and FO erred.

You are arresting first and confirming later.

While according to international conventions, you should confirm first and arrest later.

 

[Awesome]

Tragic as her end is, it does nothing to change my views, which are rooted in pragmatism, and only reinforced by the long standing and strongly proven history of the Pakistani nation's bayhissy.

What is pragmatism? To let them keep killing our people and not face a judicial process?

That's not pragmatic, the Lahori term is being a Phattu. Obviously everyone knows what our track record is, but to not fight for a change is akin to forgo our nationhood.

There are times when you have to hold your tongue and then there are times when you fight till the very end. Darna nahi hai, agay barho. As long we keep getting united on the issue, strength will come on its own. And its not some miracle, bigger things have happened...

 

[KS]

If it was that easy,they had done it long ago..their own economies are down in the dumps due to this war,but the reality is much deeper than most people can understand....Simply put..they cant pull out.

The US stays put in Afg primarily because of the commitment to the Afghan people and not because they are 'dependent' on the afghan war for their existence.

Back to the 80's then, world cannot forget what happened back then when US left Afghanistan and Pakistan in a mess.
This time nuclear armed Pakistan, no sane mind will want Pakistan to fail, and the consequences, you should know that.

The US is not answerable to the world and has never been. There is no consequence to anyone except Pakistanis and to a extent Afghans and Indians as your neighbours.

You are just bluffing with your nuke arsenal and it will not be before US calls your bluff and remember they have the capability to do it.

dont forget the usa war machinery.

So wat ?? It is not as if the entire US survival is based on that - they are very well capable to absorb the minor prickings that the Afghan war exit could cause to their Arms industry.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's where I disagree, AM. You're saying 'after arrest' and I'm saying 'before arrest'.

I am in favor of 'before arrest' as well, provided proper documentation establishing diplomatic immunity is provided by the suspect, as was the case with the Pakistani diplomat in London. But Davis does not appear to have had documentation establishing diplomatic immunity on him (no diplomatic visa on his passport for example).

Oh and international conventions are not framed according to the qualifications of South Asian policemen. They are the same around the world for all nations.

BTW even if the said policeman made a mistake by arresting him, some senior officer in the police should have followed the proper procedure which involves confirming diplomatic immunity with the FO before placing the individual under formal arrest.

That's where Pakistani police erred.

Fair enough point in the first two paragraphs above, but given that Davis did not (and IMO does not) possess documentation establishing diplomatic immunity, the Pakistani police acted correctly in arresting him.

 

[VCheng]

What is pragmatism? To let them keep killing our people and not face a judicial process?

That's not pragmatic, the Lahori term is being a Phattu. Obviously everyone knows what our track record is, but to not fight for a change is akin to forgo our nationhood.

There are times when you have to hold your tongue and then there are times when you fight till the very end. Darna nahi hai, agay barho. As long we keep getting united on the issue, strength will come on its own. And its not some miracle, bigger things have happened...

I wish your sentiments the best of luck!

For all my views, I really do care for the Pakistani nation since that will forever be my roots.

 

[DV RULES]

What is pragmatism? To let them keep killing our people and not face a judicial process?

That's not pragmatic, the Lahori term is being a Phattu. Obviously everyone knows what our track record is, but to not fight for a change is akin to forgo our nationhood.

There are times when you have to hold your tongue and then there are times when you fight till the very end. Darna nahi hai, agay barho. As long we keep getting united on the issue, strength will come on its own. And its not some miracle, bigger things have happened...

you are right but question here about GOP, will they fight? Our people ever united but no confirmation from VVVIPs!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Only a portion of it was from KLB :$50 million from original 377 million committed plus extra $43 million will be diverted from KLB for reconstruction.

$500 million already disbursed non-KLL funds. Additional $500 million support from KLL funds:

U.S. Announces Accelerated Disbursement of Kerry-Lugar-Berman Funds at Pakistan Development Forum

As topic is US cutting off all aid to pakistan..we have to take into account strategic partnership has ended and US is no longer using Pakistani logistics.

Great. We can all get on with our lives without the others meddling.

ADB, IDB, WB ,IMF are all with holding funds awaiting IMF's letter of comfort and there is no way Pakistan can get this letter..if USA votes against it.

My point is that Pakistan is not likely to get a LoC in any case given the GoP's reluctance to implement tough economic reforms.

End of strategic partnership, may not be the end US operations in Afghanistan ..there are ways she can support her troops...they have fixed timetable and I think they will stick to it.

Certainly there are ways the US can support her troops, just as there are ways Pakistan can deal with the TTP without US assistance.

 

[Awesome]

I wish your sentiments the best of luck!

For all my views, I really do care for the Pakistani nation since that will forever be my roots.

I understand that, and my comments were in general not directed at anyone on the forum.

The notion to not rock the boat too much is in all of us and is the general preferred mode. But clearly this situation calls for rolling up your sleeves and giving it your best shot...

Banda koshish karke haaray toh at least their conscience is clear. Things that are bigger than your or me, we can't possibly imagine to change on our own. But Freedom is or should be supreme, and this fight has become about all those things. Fighting corrupt leaders, fighting an imperial force, fighting for freedom, fighting for a judicial system.

No one will give this to us, till we don't ask for it. It is just not enough to survive, we must be worthy of it.

 

[VCheng]

I understand that, and my comments were in general not directed at anyone on the forum.

The notion to not rock the boat too much is in all of us and is the general preferred mode. But clearly this situation calls for rolling up your sleeves and giving it your best shot...

Banda koshish karke haaray toh at least their conscience is clear. Things that are bigger than your or me, we can't possibly imagine to change on our own. But Freedom is or should be supreme, and this fight has become about all those things. Fighting corrupt leaders, fighting an imperial force, fighting for freedom, fighting for a judicial system.

No one will give this to us, till we don't ask for it. It is just not enough to survive, we must be worthy of it.

BRAVO! I couldn't say it better myself!

You brought tears to my eyes by making me remember my time there when I used to say all these things to anyone who would listen, before I was forced to leave for a multitude of reasons.

 

[JonAsad]

The US is not answerable to the world and has never been. There is no consequence to anyone except Pakistanis and to a extent Afghans and Indians as your neighbours.

How can you say that?
The consequences are to the US as well thats why it was in Afghanistan in the first place- Hello"-- bunch of Taliban/Al Qaida allegedly financed/supported by Osama 'Still Alive and not Caught' Bin laden flew some planes into WTC, that started all this, it would be really naive to think after Americans leave Afghanistan and Pakistan (again) in this mess, there will be peace is south asia or in US for that matter.

You are just bluffing with your nuke arsenal and it will not be before US calls your bluff and remember they have the capability to do it.

No one has the capability to do it, nor we are going to let that happen, Its just your lame rhetoric you use for your convenience and inner satisfaction.
The US out of Afghanistan, the strategy which made Obama the President, if it was to happen, then it would have happened already.

The way i see it you are the ones thats going to loose both ways, either If US leave Afghanistan or stays there and continue its WoT along with Pakistan.

 

[ashok321]

Only problem for US will be ..it will have reroute its supplies through Western routes..which might be bit more expensive.

It takes just 4 cents to print a 100 USD bill!

So a country like US would not care for these things.

 

[JonAsad]

It takes just 4 cents to print a 100 USD bill!

So a country like US would not care for these things.

Its not like you continue using 4 cents to print 100 USD bills at will ..
Economies doesn't run like that.