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RAW Is The Real Terrorist!

It’s all about believes and according to our belief Islam is the religion of Allah. Surely Allah cannot commit mistakes only humans can make mistakes. You can say it for your religion since you believe in it.

That is exactly what i meant. That nothing is initself-perfect, our views and ideas make anything perfect or not.

For example, i dont think Hinduism is perfect, and yet i believe in it(ie am a follower), someone from the VHP might say it is the most perfect religion, and he is entitled to his own views unless he starts imposing it on others.
 
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Why was there no master-stroke by your leaders to prevent the ethnic cleansing that took place in West Pakistan? Why were the Muslim League's guards allowed to run amok on hapless minorities and almost totally wipe them out?

Ethnic cleansing?
There has never been a single Muslim-non Muslim violence in Pakistan since independence look at your record in this field.

And you talk about blaming victims for being victims? This is the perfect example. You murdered millions of them, a disproportionate number of them being Hindus and then you blame the victims for being intellectuals in a disproportionate number!


You now better be careful about using this ‘Millions’.
 
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^^ I don't think you read the post completely.

There are hardly any non-Muslims left in Pakistan. You cleaned them up long back.
 
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Salman, Did you also not read the numerous reports of Hindu girls being kidnapped in Pakistan and forcibly converted and married off to Muslims? I can't believe you didn't.

The reality is a bit (just a wee bit) different from what you want to project and unfortunately for you, in the age of the internet its difficult to hoodwink people.
 
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ok no need to go all emotional on me, I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone in your family, I'll keep your family out of it from here on in. Ah yes, you say our movies are pathetic and then you say you don't waste your time watching crap, but how would you know if you've never seen one? Unless of course you have seen one, were absolutely repulsed by it, and never bothered watching one again. but we make so many in a year, there's something for everyone. you know what, let me suggest a movie, try rock on or tare zameen par.

I knew actually you would have raised this up that how do i know unless ofcourse i saw something, seriously this isnt about nuclear warheads, where i have to see the actual blue prints to know whats it all about.

I am done discussing panties, drugs, alcohol and hindi movies, I am frankly not interested in what you have to say about the same. I don't even know how all this started in the first place. so keep your comments to yourself in this regard.

So am i.



yeah, it was my bad, I have no qualms whatsoever about admitting my mistakes, I shouldn't have said you don't need them at all, because obviously you do and obviously I know you do. I think you understood what I was trying to imply, you're just nit-picking at my posts. I'll tell you how your laptop and breakfast and everything else depends on the international community, and pay attention, are you paying attention?

They have propped up your economy, plain and simple. The US has come to Pakistan's aid in the past, now its China, but not really, more like the IMF, didn't they approve a loan like yesterday or day before, I forget how much, but go google it and you'll see how your economy depends on injections of cash from the intl' community, the same one that needs you more than you need them, unless of course you aren't cool with the idea of becoming a south asian somalia.

Ok so well it was the US at first, and now CHina gets in. Dude we are not even talking about our relationship with china, or France or Saudi Arabia. You know exactly which country i was referring too but since you could not back the so called everything coming from the US, now you brought the rest of the world into. By the way IMF just raised objection on the so called aid package coming from the WB. So where do you think you are going with all of this now actually:cheesy:.

I'm the one that's ranting? dude go read your posts, when did I say gas comes from the US? I said the money for gas has come from the US and the Saudis in the past and this time its the IMF. And the same logic applies to food, any idea what the inflation rate in your country is? any idea what happened to the price of food recently? not that it hasn't happened anywhere else on the planet but its not nearly as bad as in Pakistan and a few other places.

Really. Again all tall claims and nothing to back them up. FIrst it was the gas, now it comes down to money. Dude does any of this makes sense. HOw in the hell did SA come into the equation. You like to bring the whole world into the debate, be my guest but that wasnt what the debate was all about specially when it is related to the US. And we are discussing US and not the whole world here. By the way not IMF not the saudis, and definately not the US will sponsor for the IP gas pipe line project. Infact they have all opposed it.


You were the one who said Pakistan can whoop India's as* any given day of the week, its called a 'universal' statement if you know anything about logic, I just countered it with an 'Existential' statement saying that if what you said was true, BD wouldn't be BD. and yeah, I know the odds were against you in '71. Even today, conventionally speaking its the same story really, just the nuclear angle makes war a lot riskier. So if anything wars will be fought on a limited scale, my point ?, Pakistan cannot outright whoop India's ***.

I said in a response when you said will China intervene? Why do i have to repeat everytime. You said will China intervene, i said no we dont need their intervention, when the time comes we can handle the situation on our own and then you like before brought every thing else into it from east Pakistan to Israel and what not.
HOwever today is not the same story. Let me try to enlighten you a bit on whats really happening, however before i do that, cheers:cheers: for actually admitting that India is indeed backing it all up, before that all your kind was doing was telling us how paranoid we really are and India has nothing to do with anything:disagree:. Having said that well the reality speaks for itself, firstly unlike in east Pakistan, where we had no links to the area and most importantly we were cut of by thousands of miles of hostile territory, one which actually itself attacked(INDIA). That is not the case here. Second unlike in BD where India with the help of mukhties was able to turn the local population against us and Mujaib playing in India's hands, that is again not the case this time, really unlike you i can back my claim, dont take my word for it, read how many local tribes have risen to cleanse their area from this nonsense which never happened in East Pakistan. As a direct result of this and i know i have said it before, but you chose to ignore it, take out the figures and you will realize as compared to last year, how successful the army really has been in conduting these operations. Last but certainly not least, no matter how much you really believe in that you have established a strong foot hold inside Afghanistan, the fact is that we can really disrupt you there when ever we want, if we could do to soviets then, India certianly in not in the league.

We really should start talking about RAW, any fun news about 'em recently?

Dont you think you are a bit contradicting your own self. At one hand you say India is again playing with us and on the second, you like calling it fun news. But whatever may be the case, i am not going to get into what you think or think not of it, really the fun will begin once the americans get out with just You and us left there. So cheers till then.
 
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This type of incidents are also happening in india with much larger scale.

Question is why all minorities in india are struggling in india for independence or for their rights like kashmiries,sikhs,Gorkhas,Tamils,gujars etc.

All present minororites in india were before belong to hindu faith but slowly they realise discremination of caste system in hindu religion and converted to cristian or islamic faith which is against the discremination on the basis race and colour .

waraich66, do I need to tell you of the discrimination all South Asians and other Asians face in the Arab countries?

Don't you read such stories all the time, you may have experienced them first hand too. Don't they consider the non-Arabs second-class Muslims?

To me, Arabs are as much racist (in fact more) than Europeans and others. In fact more. They don't even have a checks and balance system.

As one more example, let me tell you that in Darfur, Sudan the Arab (?) Muslims are killing the black African people for racial reasons. They are supposed to have a little extra reddish skin tone, so when they rape the African Christian women, they call it impregnation with "Tomato". Don't believe me? Do your own research.

Please try to understand that good and bad people are in every religion. There is no empirical evidence that one religion has taken a "theka" of either the good or the bad.

The reasons for the conversions is a controversial topic. I don't want to discuss that here to avoid bitterness. It can be discussed in a separate thread.
 
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The paranoia of some knows no bounds and so does their capacity to lie or indulge in delusions.

Even the extreme danger that Gandhi took on his life when he went alone in places like Noakhali where people were being butchered and cow meat was being stuffed by the "peaceful and tolerant" people in their mouths seems to such people as "master stroke". And that visit and the pacification prevented a reverse orgy of violence in Bihar and West Bengal.

Why was there no master-stroke by your leaders to prevent the ethnic cleansing that took place in West Pakistan? Why were the Muslim League's guards allowed to run amok on hapless minorities and almost totally wipe them out?

If you know so much, you should be knowing about people like Suhrawardy who promoted massive massacre on the "Direct Action" day but when the inevitable blow back came, went running to Gandhi to save his people from the blow back.

And you talk about blaming victims for being victims? This is the perfect example. You murdered millions of them, a disproportionate number of them being Hindus and then you blame the victims for being intellectuals in a disproportionate number!

Try to have some measure of honesty. It won't bite, I can assure you, though it may leave what you have held precious for so long totally shattered, the untruths and the fables!

Especially liked this part. So it was Gandhi's responsibility to save minorities in Pakistan after it been formed!

Same as it is the responsibility of the fabled "international community" to prevent you from imploding or exploding just because of the sheer nuisance value!

I believe DS was referring to Gandhi preventing the Muslim minorities being massacred in India (Punjab etc.), as he did with the intervention elsewhere, not in Pakistan. The implication being that had the massacres been halted in India, and the trains full of massacred people not showed up in Pakistan, there would not have been as large of a reaction in Pakistan.

In terms of a 'spiritual leader' who actually had the time and influence to run about and intervene, instead of managing the affairs of a newly formed country with massive challenges, Gandhi really was the only figure at the time capable of doing so.

However I would disagree with him that there was an ulterior motive to not intervening in the West, unless there is something more substantial he can point to that might indicate what Gandhi's reasoning was at the time.

And please, don't keep repeating the lie of 'millions murdered' - you haven't been able to prove it, so drop it. Or for that matter merely tie any argument on EP to 'condoning atrocities' - that is a gigantic mischaracterization of the point DS made..
 
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^^ I don't think you read the post completely.

There are hardly any non-Muslims left in Pakistan. You cleaned them up long back.

Quite akin to the similar numbers of Muslims that left India for Pakistan, and suffered violence as well - I am referring to West Pakistan here. There was no 'cleaning up', not any more than what happened in India. Lets not get self righteous without reason here.

On the issue of discrimination against minorities, I would also urge the Pakistani members to not get sanctimonious about the suffering of minorities in India, when we know that they suffer discrimination in Pakistan as well. A lot can be improved in both nations.
 
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I believe DS was referring to Gandhi preventing the Muslim minorities being massacred in India (Punjab etc.), as he did with the intervention elsewhere, not in Pakistan. The implication being that had the massacres been halted in India, and the trains full of massacred people not showed up in Pakistan, there would not have been as large of a reaction in Pakistan.

I did understand DS' post in the same terms, but that is obviously implicating India for starting the "massacres" and Pakistan only "reacting". This does not bear scrutiny. I have shared some neutral and Pakistani sources proving otherwise which showed how the killings took place in a planned manner all over Western Punjab with the complicity of the powers that be starting from the Rawalpindi division and also the Lahore riots.

Logic note too shared a good link.

http://faculty.washington.edu/brass/Partition.pdf

Both sides showed their inhuman side during that period, but trying to "implicate" the Mahatma was in poor taste. Extremely poor taste.

In terms of a 'spiritual leader' who actually had the time and influence to run about and intervene, instead of managing the affairs of a newly formed country with massive challenges, Gandhi really was the only figure at the time capable of doing so.

However I would disagree with him that there was an ulterior motive to not intervening in the West, unless there is something more substantial he can point to that might indicate what Gandhi's reasoning was at the time.

Well, for Gandhi preventing bloodshed was obviously the most important thing. Others may not have felt so.

And please, don't keep repeating the lie of 'millions murdered' - you haven't been able to prove it, so drop it. Or for that matter merely tie any argument on EP to 'condoning atrocities' - that is a gigantic mischaracterization of the point DS made..

OK, lets just go with substantial atrocities.

DS has painted the Hindus as villains of the peace for the 1971 events. He of course conveniently overlooks any Pakistani issues at all.

Here are some quotes from the Hamoodur Rahman Comission.

"How many Hindus have you killed?"

It was a process euphemistically called "being sent to Bangladesh". The killing and torture of respectable citizens of East Pakistan incensed an already hostile people. A host of army officers who were ordered to -- and carried out -- these atrocities, provided details to the commission. "Brigadier Arbab told me to destroy all houses in Joydepur. To a great extent I executed this order," said Lt-Colonel Aziz Ahmad Khan, then commanding officer (CO) of 8 Baluch in his deposition. "General Niazi asked as to how many Hindus we had killed. In May, there was an order in writing to kill Hindus. "According to Brigadier Iqbalur Rehman Shariff, GSO Division-I, Lt-General Gul Hasan (later army chief) while visiting troops in East Pakistan used to routinely ask, "How many Bengalis have you shot?"

The report said a high-powered inquiry was needed to inquire into "persistent allegations of atrocities said to have been committed by the Pakistan Army in East Pakistan during its operations from March to December 1971". It further said that those responsible must be tried; they had "brought a bad name for the Pakistan Army and alienated the sympathies of the local population by their wanton cruelty and immorality against our own people".

India Today Magazine

Anyway, my point was to point out the "Blame the victim" syndrome that has been demonstrated here without even a semblance of self criticism!
 
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new life get a life

indian terrorism can be seen in srilanka, bangladesh, pakistan and china and to large extent in burma
so mr ideological child of kutalia think before you accuse

Wake up. Srilanka and Pakistan has / might have Indian hand. LTTE got its intitial nacking from India, but then we send our own soldiers, lost many and also sacrificed our biggest leader in Rajiv gandhi for the same. So as far Lanka is considered we have done our part.

Pakistan is tit for tat.

B'desh is happy hosts to Jihadi organisation, India got othing to do with it.

China...lol..I guess Pakistan based organisation for trouble in far west.

Burma lol....the bigest terrorists are in power there.
 
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Yes in arabs they have discrimination germs but islam is againt this idealogy.
and if some sect of muslims has this type of thinking it is wrong and whole nation could not be blamed.

But in hindu religion the disrimination is part and parcel of their social structure.

Which you have also not denied.

Results are in front of you that hindu socity is suffering lot due to this problem.Advance nations also comdem racial discremination.

Racial discremination is the biggest danger for indian unity.How long you keep minorities in your favour with this type of treatment untill you eliminate this cancer from your society.

In your urge to denigrate Hinduism, you are taking the discussion in a direction that I want to avoid. But since you have started, let me respond.

Tell me why after 1400 years Islam failed to make Arabs shun racism? I see many Pakistani to be equally racists, priding themselves on their supposedly lighter skin tone, why Islam could not make you avoid that after a 1000 years?

I think Islam has an inherent issue with the equality of mankind not Hinduism. We believe that there are many paths to God. He can't be narrow minded enough to favor one set of people (who pray in a certain way) over others and that too by damning them to eternal hellfire. That would be a very cruel and insensitive God and all religions agree that he is merciful.

Muslim Arabs and Christian Europeans have always been the biggest criminals in the slavery trade. They did that for hundreds of years. The Europeans still realized their mistake and shunned that but Muslim Arabs would never have done that as it is sanctioned by Islam.

Do you agree with Slavery? Why is it permitted in Islam?

So many Muslims look forward to seeing the kaafirs burn in the eternal hellfire while they enjoy the goodies in heaven! Any religion that makes sadists out of human beings who look forward to see the sufferings of other fellow human beings in the other world and contribute to their sufferings in this world is not a compassionate religion.

The Jajiya practice and the Dhimmi practice showed that Islam doesn't believe in the equality of human beings.


I can go on and on but first lets see your response to these issues.

PS: I agree that Hindu society needs to get its act togather and I think it is already happening to a very large extent (obviously unbeknown to you.). You need to just open your eyes and you will find many problems in Islamic society too. The violence levels in the Islamic society due to sectarian reasons (Muslim on Muslim) are much higher, have always been very high since the earliest days of Islam. So lets look at nearer home before we are eligible to advise others.
 
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Salman, Did you also not read the numerous reports of Hindu girls being kidnapped in Pakistan and forcibly converted and married off to Muslims? I can't believe you didn't.

The reality is a bit (just a wee bit) different from what you want to project and unfortunately for you, in the age of the internet its difficult to hoodwink people.

These things happen in India on a very large scale but the method is bit different, Hindus marry Muslim girls giving reasons of secularism and all that.
 
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Muslim boys also marry Hindu girls here. If they fall in love, they marry, there are no forced inter-faith marriages.
 
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