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Rattled By Chinese Submarines, India Joins Other Nations In Rebuilding Fleet

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India is speeding up a navy modernization program and leaning on its neighbors to curb Chinese submarine activity in the Indian Ocean, as nations in the region become increasingly jittery over Beijing’s growing undersea prowess. Just months after a stand-off along the disputed border dividing India and China in the Himalayas, Chinese submarines have shown up in Sri Lanka, the island nation off India’s southern coast. China has also strengthened ties with the Maldives, the Indian Ocean archipelago.

China’s moves reflect its determination to beef up its presence in the Indian Ocean, through which four-fifths of its oil imports pass, and coincides with escalating tension in the disputed South China Sea, where Beijing’s naval superiority has rattled its neighbors.

“We should be worried the way we have run down our submarine fleet. But with China bearing down on us, the way it is on the Himalayas, the South China Sea and now the Indian Ocean, we should be even more worried,” said Arun Prakash, former chief of the Indian navy.

“Fortunately, there are signs this government has woken up to the crisis,” he said. “But it will take time to rebuild. We should hope that we don’t get into a face-off with the Chinese, that our diplomacy and alliances will keep things in check.”

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government has ordered an accelerated tendering process to build six conventional diesel-electric submarines at an estimated cost of 500 billion rupees ($8.1 billion), in addition to six similar submarines that French firm DCNS is assembling in Mumbai port to replace a nearly 30-year-old fleet hit by a run of accidents.

The country’s first indigenously built nuclear submarine – loaded with nuclear-tipped missiles and headed for sea trials this month – joins the fleet in late 2016. In the meantime, India is in talks with Russia to lease a second nuclear-propelled submarine, navy officials told Reuters.

The government has already turned to industrial group Larsen & Toubro Ltd, which built the hull for the first submarine, to manufacture two more nuclear submarines, sources with knowledge of the matter said.

Elsewhere in the region, Australia is planning to buy up to 12 stealth submarines from Japan, while Vietnam plans to acquire as many as four additional Kilo-class submarines to add to its current fleet of two. Taiwan is seeking U.S. technology to build up its own submarine fleet.

OUTNUMBERED

India’s navy currently has only 13 ageing diesel-electric submarines, only half of which are operational at any given time due to refits. Last year, one of its submarines sank after explosions and a fire while it was docked in Mumbai.

China is estimated to have 60 conventional submarines and 10 nuclear-powered subs, including three armed with nuclear weapons.

Ma Jiali, an expert at the China Reform Forum’s Centre for Strategic Studies which is affiliated with the Central Party School, said Beijing’s top concern in the Indian Ocean was safeguarding the passage of its commodities, especially oil.

“There are many voices in India who believe the Indian Ocean belongs solely to India, and no other country belongs there. That line of thought is common – but of course it shouldn’t be viewed like that. Our (China’s) view is that there should be dialogue and discussion between China and India.”

With India building its navy to about 150 ships, including two aircraft carriers, and China holding around 800 in its naval fleet, the two are more likely than not to run into each other, naval officials and experts say.

David Brewster, a strategic affairs visiting fellow at the Australian National University, said India will do everything it can to recover its dominant position in the Indian Ocean.

It may seek naval cooperation with Japan and Australia, and expand a military base on the Andaman Islands which lie about 140 km (87 miles) from the Malacca Straits, he said.

“India sees the presence of any Chinese naval vessel as an intrusion. There is a big ramp-up in their presence, which is clearly intended to send a message to India,” said Brewster.

India has engaged in intense diplomacy with Sri Lanka about the Chinese submarine presence, reminding it that New Delhi must be informed of such port calls under a maritime pact they signed this year along with the Maldives.

India has also muscled into an $8 billion deep water port that Bangladesh wants to develop in Sonadia in the Bay of Bengal, with the Adani Group submitting a proposal in October. China Harbour Engineering Company, an early bidder, was the front-runner.

“If China continues down this path and continues with this level of presence in the Indian Ocean then the Indians will feel they need to respond,” said Brewster.

Rattled By Chinese Submarines, India Joins Other Nations In Rebuilding Fleet | idrw.org
 
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Why is this is a worry now? The Indian Navy raised this issue over 30 f-king years ago!!!

Ma Jiali, an expert at the China Reform Forum’s Centre for Strategic Studies which is affiliated with the Central Party School, said Beijing’s top concern in the Indian Ocean was safeguarding the passage of its commodities, especially oil.

“There are many voices in India who believe the Indian Ocean belongs solely to India, and no other country belongs there. That line of thought is common – but of course it shouldn’t be viewed like that. Our (China’s) view is that there should be dialogue and discussion between China and India.”




This Chinese expert should pay attention to their action on the South China sea. Regardless, India seems cannot match China on a numerical level with regard to weapons and platforms. India needs to put more thought and emphasis into siginificant game changers that will give it a leap ahead of China. The same way China thinks it has to appraoch the US asymmetrically........India should be thinking the same for China.
 
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Why is this is a worry now? The Indian Navy raised this issue over 30 f-king years ago!!!

Ma Jiali, an expert at the China Reform Forum’s Centre for Strategic Studies which is affiliated with the Central Party School, said Beijing’s top concern in the Indian Ocean was safeguarding the passage of its commodities, especially oil.

“There are many voices in India who believe the Indian Ocean belongs solely to India, and no other country belongs there. That line of thought is common – but of course it shouldn’t be viewed like that. Our (China’s) view is that there should be dialogue and discussion between China and India.”




This Chinese expert should pay attention to their action on the South China sea. Regardless, India seems cannot match China on a numerical level with regard to weapons and platforms. India needs to put more thought and emphasis into siginificant game changers that will give it a leap ahead of China. The same way China thinks it has to appraoch the US asymmetrically........India should be thinking the same for China.
We don't claim it based on some ten thousand year old map.

And what with this obsession with China of our media this days. Why are they hell bend on making a bogeyman out of China?
 
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Bullshit! Idiotic! Moronic! cockamamie! ( am i missng some adjective here ) reporting.

If someone is concerned with enemy's Sub, he builds ASW Frigates and buy Submarine Hunters like P8I. He does not go on a Submarine building drive.

India's decision to buy P8I, and to build ASW frigates so capable and Heavy that they would be classified as Destroyers in most Navies was in response to growing Submarine fleet of China.

India's Submarine building drive is to deter Chinese Surface navy from venturing into Indian Ocean, if it become capable enough to do that in future.
 
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Bullshit! Idiotic! Moronic! cockamamie! ( am i missng some adjective here ) reporting based on substandard opinion.

If someone is concerned with enemy's Sub, he builds ASW Frigates and buy Submarine Hunters like P8I. He does not go on a Submarine building drive.

India's decision to buy P8I, and to build ASW frigates so capable and Heavy that they would be classified as Destroyers in most Navies was in response to growing Submarine fleet of China.

India's Submarine building drive is to deter Chinese Surface navy from venturing into Indian Ocean, if it become capable enough to do that in future.
Australia and new Zealand can also claim the Indian ocean to be theirs or at least their aboriginals can.
Who is going to claim the Pacific ocean, the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean sea now ??? It is just... well...
 
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just waste money and try to build some enemy in geopolitics.

recall the earlier days of China growth, we focused on economy and goods producing instead of weapons.

India just need time to realize English ppl are gone, and the map they claim is not belong to them.
 
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Australia and new Zealand can also claim the Indian ocean to be theirs or at least their aboriginals can.
Who is going to claim the Pacific ocean, the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean sea now ??? It is just... well...
if china claim SCS , then why not India claim Indian Ocean's......... Indian Ocean name said it all , didn't it ?
 
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And what with this obsession with China of our media this days. Why are they hell bend on making a bogeyman out of China?

Because most of you north Indians and Indians of other parts of the country have been day dreaming, living in Bodhidharma's age and Nehru's age of bhai-bhai nonsense. All while, we folks of the border are telling you about the grim realities of today which is not like what was in those days.

Wake up.

Our media maybe a little too free and have problems about reporting wrong stuff, but mind you, they are NOT making a boogeyman. These problems are real at the border.
 
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just waste money and try to build some enemy in geopolitics.

recall the earlier days of China growth, we focused on economy and goods producing instead of weapons.

India just need time to realize English ppl are gone, and the map they claim is not belong to them.
lol this is you need to release when claiming SCS......... based on friction maps.....
 
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just waste money and try to build some enemy in geopolitics.

recall the earlier days of China growth, we focused on economy and goods producing instead of weapons.

There is something called multitasking. You don't sleep on security while developing the country.

India just need time to realize English ppl are gone, and the map they claim is not belong to them.

Then you are the first one who should realise that this is not some Qing, Shang or Manchu era and retreat back to your actual territory.
 
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Because most of you north Indians and Indians of other parts of the country have been day dreaming, living in Bodhidharma's age and Nehru's age of bhai-bhai nonsense. All while, we folks of the border are telling you about the grim realities of today which is not like what was in those days.

Wake up.

Our media maybe a little too free and have problems about reporting wrong stuff, but mind you, they are NOT making a boogeyman. These problems are real at the border.
Either you didn't read my first sentence of intentionally dropped it. My line of thought is not at all on those lines that you mentioned above. Not a big fan of nehru and his bhai bhai concept. We should build our capabilities and secure our borders, irrespective of which country lies on the other side.
Why do we need to bring china or any other country for that matter in this particular topic. It could have made some sense if this news was about MacMohan Line or Indian build up on the chinese border, but submarines!!
Chinese navy is not that strong at this point to project its power in the Indian ocean regardless of how many ships they operates. Indian ocean is to India what SCS is to China. If they are talking about the PLAN's submarine to sri lanka then that was just a port visit and nothing new in that, IN also does that and visits more countries than PLAN ships.
 
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There is something called multitasking. You don't sleep on security while developing the country.



Then you are the first one who should realise that this is not some Qing, Shang or Manchu era and retreat back to your actual territory.
all dynasty you mentioned is part of China, their race not left away from this land. but English? I dont know, i can say 满人 is Chinese as well as a race, but English is Indian? hard to see the chance.
 
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Australia and new Zealand can also claim the Indian ocean to be theirs or at least their aboriginals can.
Who is going to claim the Pacific ocean, the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean sea now ??? It is just... well...



Their Aborgines have Tamil DNA! So the claim will be ours!
 
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There is something called multitasking. You don't sleep on security while developing the country.
no, but wiser way is pretending to be. Indian act too positive these days, no good, no good at all.
 
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Either you didn't read my first sentence of intentionally dropped it. My line of thought is not at all on those lines that you mentioned above. Not a big fan of nehru and his bhai bhai concept. We should build our capabilities and secure our borders, irrespective of which country lies on the other side.
Why do we need to bring china or any other country for that matter in this particular topic. It could have made some sense if this news was about MacMohan Line or Indian build up on the chinese border, but submarines!!
Chinese navy is not that strong at this point to project its power in the Indian ocean regardless of how many ships they operates. Indian ocean is to India what SCS is to China. If they are talking about the PLAN's submarine to sri lanka then that was just a port visit and nothing new in that, IN also does that and visits more countries than PLAN ships.



China is part of the equation. What Tsherin stated is correct. You guys have been sleeping or walking blind far too long. China is actively and covertly engaging us in a myriad of way. They arm Pakistan to the teeth and whenever India has developed a huge leap and edge over Pakistan, China sells or gives them weapons that equalize their capabilities against us. Subs are a huge concern for us. For 30 plus years, our navy has told Congress it needs more subs. What happened? NOTHING. Now the threat has become bigger. It is this incompetence from Congress and the Gandhi family that has royally screwed us over the years.



Are you aware of the issues regarding Sri Lank cozying up to China and Pakistan? Nobody will reveal their true intentions but as a state, it is all about maintaining an edge over the other. Whatever Pakistan does, it is always against our best interest. And they are actively working with China against India.


You bring up MacMohan Line.....well think about it? If you were a military you would look to exploit any weak link in your enemy's capabilities and borders. Why restrict yourself to only the MacMohan line?





Netaji was the key for India. Why do you think Nehru and company went to extraordinary lengths to nip him?
 
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