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Rattled By Chinese Submarines, India Joins Other Nations In Rebuilding Fleet

Another one those Chinese Obsessed Media reporting. or atleat the way title suggests so.
For years what has prevented induction of new submarines is lack of planning and execution of projects. Yes true China is expanding its capabilities, but surely they aren't directed at India alone.
I would be really happy if media portrays actual reasons of the plunge in fleet strength rather remaining obsessed with Chinese threat on each and every occasion.
 
Another one those Chinese Obsessed Media reporting. or atleat the way title suggests so.
For years what has prevented induction of new submarines is lack of planning and execution of projects. Yes true China is expanding its capabilities, but surely they aren't directed at India alone.
I would be really happy if media portrays actual reasons of the plunge in fleet strength rather remaining obsessed with Chinese threat on each and every occasion.



Maybe the media is pushing China to get the gov't moving faster than previous gov'ts in power.
 
China is part of the equation. What Tsherin stated is correct. You guys have been sleeping or walking blind far too long. China is actively and covertly engaging us in a myriad of way. They arm Pakistan to the teeth and whenever India has developed a huge leap and edge over Pakistan, China sells or gives them weapons that equalize their capabilities against us. Subs are a huge concern for us. For 30 plus years, our navy has told Congress it needs more subs. What happened? NOTHING. Now the threat has become bigger. It is this incompetence from Congress and the Gandhi family that has royally screwed us over the years.



Are you aware of the issues regarding Sri Lank cozying up to China and Pakistan? Nobody will reveal their true intentions but as a state, it is all about maintaining an edge over the other. Whatever Pakistan does, it is always against our best interest. And they are actively working with China against India.


You bring up MacMohan Line.....well think about it? If you were a military you would look to exploit any weak link in your enemy's capabilities and borders. Why restrict yourself to only the MacMohan line?





Netaji was the key for India. Why do you think Nehru and company went to extraordinary lengths to nip him?
You are taking what said there out of context. My thought are the same as yours and we should engage them on the same level. But why do we have to build our capabilities keeping them in our mind, cant we do that irrespective of the adversary/competitor, then be it China or US for that matter.
 
But why do we have to build our capabilities keeping them in our mind, cant we do that irrespective of the adversary/competitor, then be it China or US for that matter.
Well Said.
When you device any military doctrine or plan for capability buildup, you take into account the threat perceptions existing.
I tried to say, that when we talk of China building up its Submarine fleet, it is taking into account its disputes with a lot of other neighbors which it feels may have to counter at some point of time. News reports like above portray that as if every thing is directed towards India, which obviously cannot be true.
Also as @anonymus said in an earlier post, navy is also developing a lot of submarine countering capability, which must get reflected in our overall capability to deal with the perceived threat in a theater.
Whether media sees in that manner holistically? o_O
 
Guys its easier said than done. After 1962 set back and subsequent engagements in 1965, 67 and 71, no one questioned India's military preparedness. However, the disintegration of Soviet Union and the political uncertainties of 90s in India coupled with insurgency in Kashmir and forex crisis added to India's woes. Bringing Congress in everything is not the right analysis. Your defence is as good as your economy is. India and China were neck and neck in economy until 80s and its the 90s when they took the lead that only widened subsequently.

Now lets see how are we placed today. We may not match up with China in economy or defence but today India has the capability to sustain a prolonged war with China and also defend her territory. China can never dream of doing Aksai Chin in Arunachal, not because it will get a bloody nose like in 1967 but because it will be defeated by Indian Army there. Next is about throwing weight around where India has been lagging. All the neighbours of India are too eager to play Cuba in the hands of China but what does it mean? Just a minor headache if you keep noticing it. What smaller SAARC nations are to India, the whole of ASEAN is for China. From Myanmar to Vietnam and Japan all are coaxing India to play a dominant naval role in their region. East and South East Asia accepted Japanese leadership in economy but they loathe chinese hegemony in the region. China knows it very well and thats why keen on South Asia just for balancing. Its not an offensive posture by China but a defensive mechanism out of insecurity.

However, I just hope that Indian military strategists are assuming that in times of crisis all her neighbours will unite against her.
 
Guys its easier said than done. After 1962 set back and subsequent engagements in 1965, 67 and 71, no one questioned India's military preparedness. However, the disintegration of Soviet Union and the political uncertainties of 90s in India coupled with insurgency in Kashmir and forex crisis added to India's woes. Bringing Congress in everything is not the right analysis. Your defence is as good as your economy is. India and China were neck and neck in economy until 80s and its the 90s when they took the lead that only widened subsequently.

Now lets see how are we placed today. We may not match up with China in economy or defence but today India has the capability to sustain a prolonged war with China and also defend her territory. China can never dream of doing Aksai Chin in Arunachal, not because it will get a bloody nose like in 1967 but because it will be defeated by Indian Army there. Next is about throwing weight around where India has been lagging. All the neighbours of India are too eager to play Cuba in the hands of China but what does it mean? Just a minor headache if you keep noticing it. What smaller SAARC nations are to India, the whole of ASEAN is for China. From Myanmar to Vietnam and Japan all are coaxing India to play a dominant naval role in their region. East and South East Asia accepted Japanese leadership in economy but they loathe chinese hegemony in the region. China knows it very well and thats why keen on South Asia just for balancing. Its not an offensive posture by China but a defensive mechanism out of insecurity.

However, I just hope that Indian military strategists are assuming that in times of crisis all her neighbours will unite against her.
Brilliantly written. You are correct, the Chinese actions are results of insecurity (which is unncessary). After the century of humiliation, the Chinese leadership has always been extra vigilant against foreign affairs/influences/etc of any kind.

Also there is a pattern to how you write. Always in two paragraphs, followed by a statement as conclusion. :D
 
If we look at the submarines, warships and carriers in pipeline at Indian dockyards, the Indian Navy, in the years to come, will be mighty hot. With naval bases in Andaman & Nicobar islands, Mauritius, Seychelles, madagascar, Oman & Qatar and hopefully in Chahbahar, Iran, the only minor challenge to Indians in the Indian Ocean would be Diego Garcia base of NATO and far off Australia. But having strategic tie ups with US and Australia, there is absolutely no challenge to Indian Navy whatsoever.

Having said that, India needs to speed up the defence modernization process and should not allow any procrastination.
 
India is speeding up a navy modernization program and leaning on its neighbors to curb Chinese submarine activity in the Indian Ocean, as nations in the region become increasingly jittery over Beijing’s growing undersea prowess. Just months after a stand-off along the disputed border dividing India and China in the Himalayas, Chinese submarines have shown up in Sri Lanka, the island nation off India’s southern coast. China has also strengthened ties with the Maldives, the Indian Ocean archipelago.

China’s moves reflect its determination to beef up its presence in the Indian Ocean, through which four-fifths of its oil imports pass, and coincides with escalating tension in the disputed South China Sea, where Beijing’s naval superiority has rattled its neighbors.

“We should be worried the way we have run down our submarine fleet. But with China bearing down on us, the way it is on the Himalayas, the South China Sea and now the Indian Ocean, we should be even more worried,” said Arun Prakash, former chief of the Indian navy.

“Fortunately, there are signs this government has woken up to the crisis,” he said. “But it will take time to rebuild. We should hope that we don’t get into a face-off with the Chinese, that our diplomacy and alliances will keep things in check.”

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government has ordered an accelerated tendering process to build six conventional diesel-electric submarines at an estimated cost of 500 billion rupees ($8.1 billion), in addition to six similar submarines that French firm DCNS is assembling in Mumbai port to replace a nearly 30-year-old fleet hit by a run of accidents.

The country’s first indigenously built nuclear submarine – loaded with nuclear-tipped missiles and headed for sea trials this month – joins the fleet in late 2016. In the meantime, India is in talks with Russia to lease a second nuclear-propelled submarine, navy officials told Reuters.

The government has already turned to industrial group Larsen & Toubro Ltd, which built the hull for the first submarine, to manufacture two more nuclear submarines, sources with knowledge of the matter said.

Elsewhere in the region, Australia is planning to buy up to 12 stealth submarines from Japan, while Vietnam plans to acquire as many as four additional Kilo-class submarines to add to its current fleet of two. Taiwan is seeking U.S. technology to build up its own submarine fleet.

OUTNUMBERED

India’s navy currently has only 13 ageing diesel-electric submarines, only half of which are operational at any given time due to refits. Last year, one of its submarines sank after explosions and a fire while it was docked in Mumbai.

China is estimated to have 60 conventional submarines and 10 nuclear-powered subs, including three armed with nuclear weapons.

Ma Jiali, an expert at the China Reform Forum’s Centre for Strategic Studies which is affiliated with the Central Party School, said Beijing’s top concern in the Indian Ocean was safeguarding the passage of its commodities, especially oil.

“There are many voices in India who believe the Indian Ocean belongs solely to India, and no other country belongs there. That line of thought is common – but of course it shouldn’t be viewed like that. Our (China’s) view is that there should be dialogue and discussion between China and India.”

With India building its navy to about 150 ships, including two aircraft carriers, and China holding around 800 in its naval fleet, the two are more likely than not to run into each other, naval officials and experts say.

David Brewster, a strategic affairs visiting fellow at the Australian National University, said India will do everything it can to recover its dominant position in the Indian Ocean.

It may seek naval cooperation with Japan and Australia, and expand a military base on the Andaman Islands which lie about 140 km (87 miles) from the Malacca Straits, he said.

“India sees the presence of any Chinese naval vessel as an intrusion. There is a big ramp-up in their presence, which is clearly intended to send a message to India,” said Brewster.

India has engaged in intense diplomacy with Sri Lanka about the Chinese submarine presence, reminding it that New Delhi must be informed of such port calls under a maritime pact they signed this year along with the Maldives.

India has also muscled into an $8 billion deep water port that Bangladesh wants to develop in Sonadia in the Bay of Bengal, with the Adani Group submitting a proposal in October. China Harbour Engineering Company, an early bidder, was the front-runner.

“If China continues down this path and continues with this level of presence in the Indian Ocean then the Indians will feel they need to respond,” said Brewster.

Rattled By Chinese Submarines, India Joins Other Nations In Rebuilding Fleet | idrw.org
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yes it was rattle less because of china more due to MoD .. and Super clean washig poweder
 
Bullshit! Idiotic! Moronic! cockamamie! ( am i missng some adjective here ) reporting.

If someone is concerned with enemy's Sub, he builds ASW Frigates and buy Submarine Hunters like P8I. He does not go on a Submarine building drive.

India's decision to buy P8I, and to build ASW frigates so capable and Heavy that they would be classified as Destroyers in most Navies was in response to growing Submarine fleet of China.

India's Submarine building drive is to deter Chinese Surface navy from venturing into Indian Ocean, if it become capable enough to do that in future.
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Some details ..
The Great Asian Showdown : India’s Kolkata Class v/s China’s Type-52D Destroyer | Defencyclopedia

that was funny indeed.
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heee ...
washing poweder nirma...
now Dho dala ...
so now cloths ready to wear
 
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Some details ..
The Great Asian Showdown : India’s Kolkata Class v/s China’s Type-52D Destroyer | Defencyclopedia


--
heee ...
washing poweder nirma...
now Dho dala ...
so now cloths ready to wear

Poor AK Antony. I wonder how he and Gen VK Sharma would be talking about his age and other defence matters with his typical Mallu accent and General trying to explain the things in Hindi. He reminds me of PV Narasiharao who never took any decision and it turned out later that not taking a decision was the decision.
 
Poor AK Antony. I wonder how he and Gen VK Sharma would be talking about his age and other defence matters with his typical Mallu accent and General trying to explain the things in Hindi. He reminds me of PV Narasiharao who never took any decision and it turned out later that not taking a decision was the decision.
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summarized the whole thread..
 
Actual BS on a page! The IN's submarine buildup has NOTHING to do with China but a need to replace antiquated subs for the IN's own doctrine. The "fast tracking" is only because the process thus far has taken soooooo long and now the subs they are meant to replace are meeting with accidents and issues.
 
Very worrying. .. If we don't develop our naval fleet we are in trouble for sure . Hope India can easily gang up against isolated Chinese and Pakistani . We must increase our 6 submarines orders to 10 atleast. And fastrack Arihant programme . It's need of an hour . If you think P8I will be efficient during war time it will be a big mistake . But need more articles warning on Chinese rise so people of India will support war time ship building program even if it's costly .

Very good article . I agree with its points. Van we increasete numbers of Scorpion ? From to 12 with AIP.

Chinese understood the importance of underwater fleet .
 
Brilliantly written. You are correct, the Chinese actions are results of insecurity (which is unncessary). After the century of humiliation, the Chinese leadership has always been extra vigilant against foreign affairs/influences/etc of any kind.

Also there is a pattern to how you write. Always in two paragraphs, followed by a statement as conclusion. :D


And what about us? Hasn't India been subkected to humiliation for a 1000 yrs?
 

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