Rape of 300,00 Bengalis by Pakistani Army in 1971 was not a true story: Germaine Greer

[boomslang]

I'm sure there WAS a lot of raping going on because that's..... well never mind. But 300,000 ? That's a lot !

 

[Bratva]

Well, it started out as a civil war. And in civil wars where multiple parties participate, things get murky and complicated. One only needs to look at the Syrian conflict as an example, which by the way is far more complicated and has more far-reaching consequences as a whole.

It becomes rather premature to accuse one party of all the horrors of war.

The intensity of war increased when AWAMI league and Mukti bahini started attacking Bihari and Non Bengali Pakistanis in March 1971. It was the turning point where Pakistani Army went berserk .

 

[Nilgiri]

There is definitely a high chance that the figures of 300,000 rapes and 3 million innocent people slaughtered systematically are both mostly propaganda based.

Both numbers come from very dubious procedures to begin with.

However that does not detract away from the fact that many rapes and killings did happen. Who knows for sure how many....there was no accurate neutral 3rd party assessment. If one says 10,000....why not 100,000? If one says 100,000, why not 1,000,000? The whole census and statistical apparatus was shoddy to begin with and next to totally destroyed during and immediately after the war (and combine the huge source of error from the refugees that had fled to India or had died from other causes + false/inaccurate reporting at the base level).

It is similar to the casualties of Mao's great leap forward, or Stalin's purges/famines and even Nazi Holocaust (though this one has attracted the most academia and it probably the closest error bound we will get).

The biggest problem for any figure is that the perpetrators were let go without trial. Not only was it a travesty of justice, it also leaves a huge hole in knowing the true figures of the calamity. So we just are left with a he says/she says format...and people follow their own bias in regards to that....or simply dont care after labelling the events as terrible.

 

[bongbang]

Rapes and killings happened and victims were mostly Bengali Hindus, most of them then went to India and living there now. Bangladeshi Muslims took matters in hand to save the remainings.
http://satyavijayi.com/2-4-million-...00-hindu-women-were-raped-by-muslims-in-1971/

 

[Nilgiri]

Rapes and killings happened and victims were mostly Bengali Hindus, most of them then went to India and living there now. Bangladeshi Muslims took matters in hand to save the remainings.
http://satyavijayi.com/2-4-million-...00-hindu-women-were-raped-by-muslims-in-1971/

Sources: Wikipedia.

This is what I am talking about.

If you go to the actual underlying sources, a lot is left to be desired about the quality/origin/process.

A huge pathfinder team should have been organised immediately after the war by Mujib/I.G alongside a full nuremberg style trial process of the POWs after initial processing with some UN participation (to underline credibility).

 

[Areesh]

A huge pathfinder team should have been organised immediately after the war by Mujib/I.G alongside a full nuremberg style trial process of the POWs after initial processing with some UN participation (to underline credibility).

True. And that nuremberg style trial should have started with investigating India's crime of supporting, sponsoring and exporting terrorists in the form of Mukiti Bahini.

 

[American Pakistani]

I'm sure there WAS a lot of raping going on because that's..... well never mind. But 300,000 ? That's a lot !

And guess what there were only 42000 soldiers stationed. I wanna know how those 42k soldiers got mysterious powers that they killed 3 million bengalis, raped 300000 bengalis, fought mutkia bahina terrorists, fought indian army, etc.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

not even Pakistanis have that much stamina

 

[Nilgiri]

And guess what there were only 42000 soldiers stationed. I wanna know how those 42k soldiers got mysterious powers that they killed 3 million bengalis, raped 300000 bengalis, fought mutkia bahina terrorists, fought indian army, etc.

Factor in the time of stationing.

From operation search light (March 26th) to the beginning of hostilities (December 3rd) thats about 8 months. So about 240 days. 3 million bengali civilians killed = 0.3 killed per pak soldier per day (i.e 1 every 3 days by each pakistani soldier).

300,000 rapes similarly comes to 0.03 raped per pak soldier per day...i.e 1 rape per month for every pakistani soldier.

So does this claim still seem so impossible? Mind you it is not clear if 300,000 refers to total rapes commited or total different victims (since they are not equivalent since some/many may have been raped multiple times)

Even if you account for the pace of troop buildup over time, you can maybe multiply the rates by a very conservative 2.

True. And that nuremberg style trial should have started with investigating India's crime of supporting, sponsoring and exporting terrorists in the form of Mukiti Bahini.

The numbers and truth are not meant for Pakistanis to believe since they have a hard time believing they committed such atrocities in the first place.

It would be for the victims, their country (Bangladesh) and the world that comprehensive truthseeking and justice is given.

The losers of any war (especially ones that clearly perpetrated such war crimes even in the eyes of neutrals, refer to the blood telegram) get to dictate exactly zilch about how such trials and truth missions proceed.

 

[Areesh]

The numbers and truth are not meant for Pakistanis to believe since they have a hard time believing they committed such atrocities in the first place.

It would be for the victims, their country (Bangladesh) and the world that comprehensive truthseeking and justice is given.

The losers of any war (especially ones that clearly perpetrated such war crimes even in the eyes of neutrals, refer to the blood telegram) get to dictate exactly zilch about how such trials and truth missions proceed.

The numbers and investigations are meaningless unless India's sponsorship of terror isn't investigated. May be that's why India and BD never trird to go for foolishness like nure4mberg like trial. Bharat mata didn't want to get exposed for its crimes. A war victory on the shoulders of terrorist was enough for it.

So does this claim still seem so impossible?

Yes completely impossible. Absolutely impossible. Purely and in every manner impossible. Your calculations are flawed, inaccurate and nothing but bullocks. Come up with something better. Some better calculations.


0.3 per day per soldier. what nonsense!!!

 

[boomslang]

And guess what there were only 42000 soldiers stationed. I wanna know how those 42k soldiers got mysterious powers that they killed 3 million bengalis, raped 300000 bengalis, fought mutkia bahina terrorists, fought indian army, etc.

Yeah, the numbers just don't seem to work out. Now 30,000 rapes I can believe.

 

[Nilgiri]

The numbers and investigations are meaningless unless India's sponsorship of terror isn't investigated.

Read my lips: The loser's opinion doesn't matter to the winners. Did Japan have any say over investigating the firebombing and dropping of the nukes by US on them?

McNamara himself said they were pretty much war crimes...but was there some big koombaya get together after World War 2 where all the nasties on both sides were somehow investigated? No.

Like I said, the matter I am talking of only is of relevance to the winners (India, Bangladesh) and the world at large who may be interested. Everybody except Pakistan basically. How the boat of truth floats on the ocean of facts formed by such a process is dependent on how you then define all that you see from then on. Of course someone viewing the whole thing far beneath the surface is going to say the boat is not there and the facts arent either given the darkness of the depth.

May be that's why India and BD never trird to go for foolishness like nure4mberg like trial. Bharat mata didn't want to get exposed for its crimes. A war victory on the shoulders of terrorist was enough for it.

The reason was mostly Indira Gandhi did not want continued pressure from the US and West regarding the release of the Pakistani prisoners. Even the Soviets were putting pressure for normalising everything under an umbrella of peace (which would make the framework of Shimla agreement).

She achieved her short term aims and the long terms she thought were of importance...but she didnt quite understand (or ignored in her vanity) the importance of those POWs to Bangladesh and to history + Indian postwar strategy w.r.t 2 nation principle and established hegemony.

India did not get damaged by Pakistan to the level that Bangladesh did physically (in fact there was little damage at all)....compared to what WW2 did to both sides (even the winners). So there was no immediate or sustained pressure from Indian public opinion in the numbers required to investigate the actions of the POWs under Indian control either.

All this has led to another unfinished chapter of hate/mistrust in South Asia....... fuzzy truths, half-truths and lies in larger numbers than needed (and which ones are which depend on who you are talking to)....and most importantly a travesty of justice.

But at least you get to wake up every day to a map where it says Bangladesh and not East Pakistan.

Yes completely impossible. Absolutely impossible. Purely and in every manner impossible. Your calculations are flawed, inaccurate and nothing but bullocks. Come up with something better. Some better calculations.


0.3 per day per soldier. what nonsense!!!

Explain. I divided the claims by the number of soldiers and then the number of days they were around.

Is there something very difficult to understand for you?

 

[livingdead]

every man will rape given a chance, we are talking about institutional rapes

what makes you think so?

 

[AMCA]

And folks we here have a victim to prove that..

Cheers to those who could not help but see their country divide!!

 

[Joe Shearer]

@WAJsal

Sarmila Bose is well established in academic circles as an attention-seeking self-publicising lightweight whose basic stock in trade, the issue of rape in Bangladesh by the PA, has been challenged and rebutted again and again. There is a branch of that family which specialises in looking for scandals where India can be implicated or her erstwhile enemies can be glorified; look up Sumantra Bose and check out his speciality. The family didn't produce eminent national leaders or politicians of worth alone; they also produced those who didn't make it, and, in that very highly competitive family atmosphere, set out to be well-known for some academic controversy of their choice.

You might find it preferable to read Z. A. Khan, or any other of a dozen Pakistani soldiers who have written about the war and its surrounding incidents.

Some people have allowed themselves the inhumanity of laughing at the apparent folly of statistics showing that the PA was involved alone. That is why shallow academics and shallow comment alike are both to be distrusted. The fact is that at the initial stages, a lot of loyalists were attacked, until the administration took to grouping them close by, in defensible locations. Thereafter, when the crack-down took place, there are two features which need emphasis: first, the killing was selective; second, the killing and prior rapes were not so much due to the PA as to the ancillaries, the Razakars. A reading of their activities will be illuminative; the transcripts of the on-going trials in Dhaka speak for themselves.

Why do some Bangladeshis deny this mini-holocaust? It suits them to; they belong to the faction of Zia ur Rahman and his relict, who would rather re-integrate Bangladesh with Pakistan than allow their bitter rival, Sheikh Hasina, to rule. Read, for instance, @Luffy 500 's coarse comment a few posts above and judge for yourself.

When, again, you encounter shallow comment about the number of deaths caused by Bangalis themselves, try to recall their ethnic composition. It was the Biharis and the ultra-orthodox Islamists, the ones under trial today, who did the most damage. Much more, I suspect, in an expression of private opinion, than the Army.