Raheel Sharif Vs Kayani: Difference in perception

[Viper0011.]

What do you guys think makes the two COAS different? In my opinion its where they worked and under what environment they worked..

Actually, they have a lot of similarities. The real question would be, the difference between Kiyani + Raheel and Mushy the kushy. The two did many things similar and Mushy did a lot of stuff entirely opposite.

1) Both Kiyani and Raheel, are pro-democracy and pro system (that is working well of course).
2) KIyani inherited and dealt with Mushy's bad governance, both militarily and inside the country as a President. Kiyani spent a LOT of time in re-doing Mushy's stuff and establishing the Military's tarnished reputation, specially, in front of the West.
3) Kiyani, as previous DG of ISI, also started to establish a different doctrine than Mushy. However, its not easy to all of a sudden put what Mushy considered "the strategic depth", aka, the good Talibans, into "every terrorist is the same".

4) Kiyani like Raheel, understood that a running system, was needed to not only eliminate terrorism, but to also eliminate the "culture" and the "thought leadership" around the country that produces terrorist like mentality, starting from intolerance within the Pakistani society. Remember, when you are intolerant of the guy across the street because he's a Shia or Sunni and your hardcore views can take you to a point where you can actually fight the other person due to different in the belief system, that is terrorist like mentality 101. The terrorist organizations will find you, will exploit such hatred and off one goes to "Jihad". This is their system. Both Kiyani and Raheel know that militarily, they can defeat the Talibans and the exremists. But.....there needs to be a system that can cure the thought process by bringing about an economic change so people can get busy and religious issues become more moderate in nature. So, ten years from now, the nation of Pakistan will owe gratitude to these two as they supported the system and allowed it to be developed. Otherwise, any other general would've done what Mushy did, become a dictator.

5) Gen. Raheel, because of his exemplary military family background, wants the honor to be restored and the military to get out of the Civilians way of life. He also believes in trusting and allowing others to complete their term and agenda. That is HUGE when it comes to Pak Army, other generals are typical short fused generals, trained for war, not diplomacy.

All in all, I think there is the right mix of leadership in Pakistan. In the next three years or so, people will start to see a more modern, economically and politically stable Pakistan. The military and the civilian government, as a system are now focusing on planning to root out the reasons of extremism in the Pakistani society as a whole. Something that hasn't happened before and that can't be done without an entire system working together. So a lot of good stuff coming to Pakistan. I am looking forward to visiting the Muree, Islamabad and the Swat valley again (used to be big tourists destinations) in the next three years. This time, I am hoping there wouldn't be a Dept of State adviser on traveling to Pakistan as these Talibastards will have become part of the history by then and foreigners / Westerners can freely roam around and enjoy the beauty found in that area.

 

[Green Arrow]

Gen kiyani was a thinking general and more suited for intelligence job. These kind of general more believe in thinking than action and always calculate profit & loss in their mind. We also need to keep in mind the environment in which gen kiyani had to work. He took the command in difficult times. He restored the army moral after a long military rule , worked with corrupt PPP govt likes of rehman Malik & zardari, successful swat operation and also ensure the democratic setup in the country. As per operation in NW, I think he was looking for the right moment which off course never come in his tenure as two main party PML-N and PTI were opposing the operation and going without political consensus into the operation would have been terrible both for institution and for country also as nation was divided also. I really believe that General kiyani did well and helped the democratic setup to take its roots, passed the transition to the next govt and left a better and favourable environment for both the govt and for next COAS to take big steps. General Raheel on the other hand inherited the favourable situation likes, A strong political govt, political and national consensus on NWO which was missing during kiyani time. Both General Kiyani and Raheel did well to serve this nation as per their capacity and acted professionally in their own environment.

 

[Skywalker]

Well in my opinion there is hardly any comparison. Kiani was more interested in his extension and in the mean time his brother was fleecing money by all means right under the nose of mr. Kiani. Unfortunately he was a week personality when it comes to taking decisions. Thanks god he has retired.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What do you guys think makes the two COAS different? In my opinion its where they worked and under what environment they worked.

Kayani served as DG ISI. He knew the inner workings of Pakistan not visible to others. He carried on this perception of Pakistan under constant existential threat into his COAS role. He therefore probably believed in good taliban vs bad taliban, since he probably dealt with them. He knew how much control he had over who. Who was out of control and who needed to be taken care of. Whether they had any use for Pakistan or not. He had all under a magnifying glass.

Raheel Sharif is a pure soldier. He served as IG training and evaluation. Had a major role in formulating doctrines and training to tackle terrorism. In this role he always viewed the taliban as terrorists because he was constantly devising plans against them. They were always a threat to him. He didn't know the inner workings of ISI. He carried over this perception into COAS and you can see it in his actions.

Conclusion: Both are patriots and did what they thought was best for the country.

Gen. Kiyani was the last top general who was part of the PA officers that fought in 71 war and suffered humiliating defeat.

That old memory kept Gen. Kiyani and his predecessors away from launching ops in NWA knowing full well that it will be a long and bloody war against locals.

Gen. Sharif on the other hand do not have the 71 trauma in his head, so he is more direct.


No conspiracy theories please. Just look the PMA graduation dates for the two.


Thank you.

Bajji kiyani's job wasn't to improve the army's image. Her job was to protect Pakistan. Don't even for a second, give credit of General Raheel's actions to bajji kiyani.

terrible comments.

Really terrible

 

[dil_dil]

I think Raheel Sharif sums up a typical Gujrati. Bold, not afraid of taking an initiative & never Passive

No doubt

 

[Green Arrow]

Well as i mentioned earlier that both general worked in different environment so it will be hard to compare both with each other. We also need to keep in mind the army thinking as well. Under Musharraf & Kiyani era our army was a more India centric and they never take this TTP threat seriously. Under Kiyani, Army took time to realize the seriousness of militancy threat and started to change its institutional thinking. Most of the army officers who are part of the decisions making now have been served in Waziristan & Swat with in last 14 years Therefore they know the danger of this TTP threat which is also helping gen Raheel as well, as army is more clear and focus in its approach to deal with this TTP which was clearly missing under Kiyani.

 

[SipahSalar]

Gen. Sharif on the other hand do not have the 71 trauma in his head, so he is more direct.

His brother was killed in 1971 war, Nishan e Haider Shabbir Sharif, what bigger trauma than that?

 

[Green Arrow]

His brother was killed in 1971 war, Nishan e Haider Shabbir Sharif, what bigger trauma than that?

I think as Gen Raheel belongs to a military family and enjoys a honorable respect in the country therefore it is also quite easy for him to take big decisions

No doubt

R you gujrati ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

His brother was killed in 1971 war, Nishan e Haider Shabbir Sharif, what bigger trauma than that?

That's different bro

For martial families in Pakistan, losing a member of the family is source of pride
but a defeat is a trauma.

Please learn the diff.

I think as Gen Raheel belongs to a military family and enjoys a honorable respect in the country therefore it is also quite easy for him to take big decisions

Perhaps that's another factor. Gen Rahil's father was an officer.

However Gen. Kiyani too came from military family (though his father I think was not from officer rank).

 

[Green Arrow]

That's different bro

For martial families in Pakistan, losing a member of the family is source of pride
but a defeat is a trauma.

Please learn the diff.



Perhaps that's another factor. Gen Rahil's father was an officer.

However Gen. Kiyani too came from military family (though his father I think was not from officer rank).

Fauj Bhai, I quite agree with your assessment but i think personal trauma should not effect the institutional decision making. Your thought plz. ?

 

[MastanKhan]

His brother was killed in 1971 war, Nishan e Haider Shabbir Sharif, what bigger trauma than that?

Sir,

That was no trauma for him---rather a badge of honor---.

General Kiyani was a coward by nature----he got to his position by riding the wave of Yessir Yessir---.

Kiyani is on the same level traitor as was Yahya Khan----. Kiyani did as much and worst damage to Pakistan than Yahya or pretty close----. Yahya's in the 65 war and Kiyani's in the WOT----.

Kiyani was Musharraf's eyes and ears and he constantly lied to Mushrraf---. Zardari otoh knew how to handle Kiyani---thru his brothers---.

Kiyani stopped being a General of the armed forces right at the height of the conflict against the terrorists---he was scared that if he attacked the terrs---they would attack him family---the quiet man just got into his shell and stayed quiet as Pakistan was being dismembered by the terrs and the politicians alike.

Kiyani's personal disgrace was finalized when OBL was killed in A'abad and Kiyani out of his cowardice kept quiet about his and Pakistan's help.

THe inside report is that Kiyani was nervous like hell when that incidence happened---he was so afraid of retaliation by the terrorists against his self that he just sod out Pakistan.

Raheel Shareef is indeed a warrior----but a he may have been dealt a hand that t would require extreme luck and conviction to succeed----and I say that bcause h has another coward in the form of Nawaz Shareef as the PM and Nisar as the minister---.

Perhaps that's another factor. Gen Rahil's father was an officer.

However Gen. Kiyani too came from military family (though his father I think was not from officer rank).

Hi,

Well that showed off in Kiyani's character.

 

[HAIDER]

Raheel Shareef believes boot on the ground
Kiyani a man who serve all his life in ISI, believe in back door diplomacy to control the situation.
Raheel Shareef top team is more practical, because they serve on the ground and have much more practical approach then top team of Kiyani.

Over all conclusion. Those officers who are serving now and those are coming on top , all them serve in battle ground and seen their comrades fall in their arm. They have blood to fight with enemy without compromise.

 

[Cheetah786]

Gen. Kiyani was the last top general who was part of the PA officers that fought in 71 war and suffered humiliating defeat.

That old memory kept Gen. Kiyani and his predecessors away from launching ops in NWA knowing full well that it will be a long and bloody war against locals.

Gen. Sharif on the other hand do not have the 71 trauma in his head, so he is more direct.


No conspiracy theories please. Just look the PMA graduation dates for the two.


Thank you.



terrible comments.

Really terrible

My comments represent reality,Reality is always a bitch !

GENERAL RAHEEL
General Raheel Sharif (born 16 June 1956),is the four-star General ... College in Lahore and afterward attended the Pakistan Military Academy. After graduation in 1976, he was commissioned into the 6th Battalion of the Frontier

BAJII KIYANI
General Kayani formerly served as the Director-General of the Inter-Services ... in Kakul where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in 1971 in his class of 45th PMA Long Course. .

Fauji Historian, learn your history.

 

[Wolfhound]

Different scenarios call for different actions but Gen kayani could have done better. Gen kayani was too focused on keeping the government happy,which resulted in delays in the opps in NW which led to loss of alot of pakistani life. He however restored the armys image locally and internationally which allowed Gen raheel to do what he did(zarb e azb) without any hesitation and political repercussions. Gen raheel cant be fully compared as he has just started his tenure but he has a more straight forward approach and keeps everyone where they belong including foreign governments(Afganistan) the rest is can not be assured until his tenure is over so lets wait and watch people

 

[Cheetah786]

His brother was killed in 1971 war, Nishan e Haider Shabbir Sharif, what bigger trauma than that?

That's a badge of honour for any soldier not a trauma.

Different scenarios call for different actions but Gen kayani could have done better. Gen kayani was too focused on keeping the government happy,which resulted in delays in the opps in NW which led to loss of alot of pakistani life. He however restored the armys image locally and internationally which allowed Gen raheel to do what he did(zarb e azb) without any hesitation and political repercussions. Gen raheel cant be fully compared as he has just started his tenure but he has a more straight forward approach and keeps everyone where they belong including foreign governments(Afganistan) the rest is can not be assured until his tenure is over so lets wait and watch people

Different scenarios , what different scenarios.