RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[Windjammer]

Err a Mig 21bison did gun down F-15E during cope India 2004 and Mig 23 did beat Mig 29 in air exercises and a F-16 did kill a F-22 in an air exercise and..........................................david did beat the goliath some day.

Wake up buddy some days some upsets come just Sometimes
and they don't win you wars.

Albeit topic title is Rafale V Block-52, but Since the thread has turned on it's head, perhaps the title needs to be amended to,... Block-52 V Rafale, pehaps Typhoon, likely SU-30 or may be F-35.!!! However coming back to the original subject, the fact of the matter is that the Block-52s are already in PAF service and the boys are training hard on it, where as the choice for the IAF hasn't even been determined yet and that makes induction and acquaintance still some distant away. Albeit my reply was to another members earlier post, but you grabbed it from mid air and started shooting in the dark with no relevance to the original argument.Therefore, Since no one can predict the future, one has to look back into the history and draw lessons from it.
First encounter September 1965, four IAF Vampires are intercepted by two F-86 Sabres of the PAF and are promptly shot down. This encounter alone results in the IAF's strength reduction by some 40%, when the Indian authorities decide to ground the entire fleet of Vampires and Ouragan Fighter/Bombers. Alas, Indeed some days some upsets come and it changes the whole scenario. Another aspect that comes into play is the Physiological warfare. In easy English, what impact your enemy has on your mind set, for which you can once again read the following attachments.
Not to say, such events win wars or will occur in future as well but then again are you in any position to predict the next battle. ??!!

 

[kingdurgaking]

Anything less than an overwhelming victory against Pakistan's Armed Forces is a defeat, if the defender is able to thwart the attack from the invader even by taking more casualties, its the defender whose going to be the victor. To be able to effectively support your ground troops, the IAF will need air supremacy in that pocket of the theatre and you can bet that PAF will contest the skies in that pocket where fighting is heavy. Although this is open to debate as the PAF always has the option of opening up another front.

For argument sakes the IAF does launches cruise missile strikes at PA's positions, than PA will retaliate and launch strikes at PA's position. The question is, does that fullfill the Indian objective of punishing Pakistan? I dont think so, for India to effectively come out the victor and fulfil its objectives, it will need to find, engage and destroy a huge chunk of Pakistan's Armour. Launching a bunch of strikes will invite counter strikes, does not serves any objective. It might serve the objectives of the Americans whom launched strikes against Libyan positions because they are immune to any counter strikes from Libya while India is not.

First of all if an war is ever to happen between India and Pakistan... it will be always Pakistan that will cross the LoC not India.. which you people will never accept.... If you people accept this .. i emphasis it will be sucidal in future for PAF to ever do an attempt...

That is why the future war will be what happened like 26/11 which is India gearing for or only when india is crumbled economically (Which will not happen for another 2 decade or 1/2 a century).. Apart from your terror network India is well equipped to beat Pakistan... which is why India is concentrating now to project itself as a responsible and powerful country demanding all things (NSG without NPT, UNSC and all other BS)

 

[Kinetic]

There is a generation gap between F-16 block 50/52 with MRCA Rafale.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

There is a generation gap between F-16 block 50/52 with MRCA Rafale.

Both 4th generation planes.

 

[majesticpankaj]

before making final judgement why people are not taking in account the IAF's evaluation parameters. IAf is as professional as any other force. IF IAF rejected the most advance F-16 w.r.t., RAfale it does hold some water..

Brand new rafale against PAF's vintage F-16 is no competition to say the least

 

[Kinetic]

Both 4th generation planes.

Where is the AESA in F-16 Block 50? Is the F-16IN that lost to Rafale also of same generation? There were 600 parameters in MRCA selection and EFT and Rafale found better. India shortlisted Rafale and Pakistan having F-16 Block 50/52 does not mean we can compare them for the sake of enmity. IAF rejected F-16IN in favor of Rafale forget PAF F-16. F-16 Block 50/52 are not new for IAF. It was in India before it touched Pakistan.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Where is the AESA in F-16 Block 50? Is the F-16IN that lost to Rafale also of same generation? There were 600 parameters in MRCA selection and EFT and Rafale found better. India shortlisted Rafale and Pakistan having F-16 Block 50/52 does not mean we can compare them for the sake of enmity.

Where is the rafales AESA radar? The F 16IN lost mostly due to political reasons. We can compare them easily as they are still of the same generation.

 

[Manticore]

There is a generation gap between F-16 block 50/52 with MRCA Rafale.

so according to your definition , an aesa radar makes a fighter completely 1 generation superior to the other 4rth gen fighters? i wasnt expecting that from a senior member.

according to your defintion if the blk2 jft is later upgraded to aesa standard than would you say the same?

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

@TanliXiang-^^^Wrong,the F-16's lost out on technical parameters(6 to be exact!).The Rafale has fielded AESA RADAR[RBE-2(?)] but the export versions will be available from 2013 onward.

 

[Kinetic]

Where is the rafales AESA radar? The F 16IN lost mostly due to political reasons. We can compare them easily as they are still of the same generation.

Here...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rlfPgilwz...2d8c6f40-377b-41bd-a179-8d63cf1c9dbc.Full.jpg

The MRCA Rafale has AESA radar, isn't it? Though the systems of F-16IN was advanced and ot comparable to that of F-16 Block 52 but over all the platform is old, even USA will stop building new F-16 in near future if they already did not. Its not just about AESA but F-16s time is almost over.

There was a news that out of six only two ie Rafale and EFT were able to meet most of the requirements of IAF.

 

[ramu]

Windjammer, you are like an old tape that gets stuck. This is Rafale vs F16s. We screwed Pakistan defence over and over again and if a cheap kill makes you happy, continue posting the same crap over and over again.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Proof is in the pie.

During Kargil IAF lost 4 aircrafts. 1 Mig 21, 1 Mig 27, 1 Canberra, 1 Mil 8.

Did not have the balls to do anything after the Parliment or the Mumbai attack. So every thing is on paper. A lot of hot air not much else.

You know what PAF wasnt flying

 

[majesticpankaj]

IF u people compare F-16 blk 52 against F-16 blk 60... few people in this forum can prove that F-16 blk 52 is superior to F-16 blk 60... by sending 3 f-16 blk 52 against 1 f-16 blk 60... that is silly

 

[Kinetic]

so according to your definition , an aesa radar makes a fighter completely 1 generation superior to the other 4rth gen fighters? i wasnt expecting that from a senior member.

Forget AESA lets talk about F-16IN vs Rafale, the F-16In that lost to Rafale.

The Super Viper has the most advanced technologies and capabilities available today on the international market. It is truly the ultimate fourth generation fighter with all it brings to the battlefield.

Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar
The Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar is the only AESA operational in the international market today. This revolutionary all-weather, precision targeting sensor has been exported by the United States government and is defending a sovereign nation today; no other MMRCA competitor can make that claim. The APG-80 AESA radar provides outstanding situational awareness and detection; ultrahigh-resolution synthetic aperture radar mapping, fully interleaved modes of operations with automatic terrain following; and air-to-air tracking of multiple targets.

Net-Centric Warfare Capability
The fusion of net-centric operations and onboard data provides a total battle space picture and optimizes mission accomplishment. The F-16 was the first multi-role fighter to incorporate a data link capability, and the IAF's Operational Data Link (ODL) can be integrated onto the F-16IN when available, ensuring interoperability with other IAF aircraft. Data integrates through all phases of the mission – from mission planning, navigation, communication and target prosecution to return to base – transforming the pilot from an aircraft system manager to a tactician.

Modern, Full-Color, All-Digital Glass Cockpit
Pilots receive easy-to-interpret information via the all-digital cockpit and helmet -mounted cueing system. The large color displays are capable of fusing data from on- and off-board sensors, reducing the workload and enabling the pilot to focus on the mission.

Advanced Survivability Features
The low radar signature of the F-16IN reduces detection by enemy radars. Its single-engine design has smaller infrared and visual signature than twin-engine fighters. The internal electronic warfare and towed decoy systems, provided by Raytheon, avoid or defeat the most advanced threats. Raytheon's combat-proven EW systems are deployed on F-16 aircraft worldwide. Superior agility and excellent pilot situational awareness reduce vulnerability to attack, while critical systems redundancy and shielding enhance survivability.

Enhanced High Thrust Engine
The F-16IN offers the highest thrust engine in the competition, the General Electric F110-132A. It has 32,000 pounds of thrust with an unprecedented record of safety, reliability, maintainability and durability.The F110 incorporates the latest technology, including full authority digital engine control, for maximum fuel efficiency and performance.

Safety, Reliability and Maintainability
The F-16IN is the most reliable, maintainable and safest multirole fighter in the world . . . based on more than 13 million flight hours in peacetime and combat operations. Also, our support approach provides the lowest life-cycle cost and is consistent with existing IAF maintenance practices.

according to your defintion if the blk2 jft is later upgraded to aesa standard than would you say the same?

Thereare many types of AESA and all AESA are not same capable. If a Mig-21 is armed with APG-77 than t should be more capable with F-18 (without AESA). Because it will track F-18 much higher ranges and will destroy it at long ranges or even jam it.

 

[Windjammer]

Windjammer, you are like an old tape that gets stuck. This is Rafale vs F16s. We screwed Pakistan defence over and over again and if a cheap kill makes you happy, continue posting the same crap over and over again.

Give it a rest ramu, stop repeating the same tune, I was merely replying to the dude for just firing in the dark.
Indeed it's a Rafale V Block-52 topic but no prizes for guessing who is digressing, hence the suggestion for the extended title.