RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[MastanKhan]

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

Hi,

It don't work that way----all six of them will be taken out---because they are less capable aircraft----. You don't buy weapons of war to see how much each costs in loss---you see what it can do against the best of the enemy aircraft and defences.

6 JF 17 against two su 30's wil result in the loss of 6 jf17's---it will be the other way around with2 rafales aganist 2 su30's.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

It don't work that way----all six of them will be taken out---because they are less capable aircraft----. You don't buy weapons of war to see how much each costs in loss---you see what it can do against the best of the enemy aircraft and defences.

6 JF 17 against two su 30's wil result in the loss of 6 jf17's---it will be the other way around with2 rafales aganist 2 su30's.

I remember something similar being said the F-4 against the older migs..
and here there arent older migs.. but fairly well equipped jets.
Still.. skepticism is ... a personal choice.

 

[Bossman]

Sir,

Does this statement reflect the term ' OXYMORON' or what----by your example---you are supporting my stand---but by the comment you are negating it----make up your mind----what you want to say..

Your posts are so convulated that it is difficult to understand what position you are taking. Also don't use words that you don't understand or know the context of.

 

[Windjammer]

Its only in PDF that you guys come up with stuff like our pilots are better drives and those fast and furious dialoge, What you don't realise that guys across the border are notching 250hrs/annum on flankers.................when you are struglling to get spares to keep your F-16 in flying conditions...................what do you people think those pilots are dumb or what even after 1000+ hrs of flying experience on flanker your new bies would humble them do you people learn flying before birth or what............lol.

In any case whatever lies under the airframe, it's only as vital as the driver in the seat, the fact has been repeatedly proven.
Firstly apart from PDF, which other platform do you have the privilege to debate from the opposite side.
Is it your obsession or do I see the words PAF missing in the highlighted part which in essence is a universal acknowledgement. And while being critical of my disclosure, wonder who is divulging in the cheap banter of numerical hours, since you are beating about the bush, care to elaborate, what battle experience your super dopers both men and machine have under their belt.

 

[deckingraj]

I remember something similar being said the F-4 against the older migs..
and here there arent older migs.. but fairly well equipped jets.
Still.. skepticism is ... a personal choice.

Santro in a real war many things can happen....On an internet war all we can talk about is how good a plane is on paper...One cannot rely on other side making a mistake and being taken down....What if the other side don't make a mistake??? You are doomed, no??? You need to get best out there and i agree as per your pocket....However one can also not ignore what the adversary is upto.....IAF is improvising at a very brisk pace and PAF needs to work very very hard to keep her doctrine intact

 

[Skull and Bones]

In any case whatever lies under the airframe, it's only as vital as the driver in the seat, the fact has been repeatedly proven.
Firstly apart from PDF, which other platform do you have the privilege to debate from the opposite side.
Is it your obsession or do I see the words PAF missing in the highlighted part which in essence is a universal acknowledgement. And while being critical of my disclosure, wonder who is divulging in the cheap banter of numerical hours, since you are beating about the bush, care to elaborate, what battle experience your super dopers both men and machine have under their belt.

Does that mean that an experienced pilot on a F-7 take out EFTs or Rafales?

And if yes then how?

 

[deckingraj]

In any case whatever lies under the airframe, it's only as vital as the driver in the seat, the fact has been repeatedly proven.
Firstly apart from PDF, which other platform do you have the privilege to debate from the opposite side.
Is it your obsession or do I see the words PAF missing in the highlighted part which in essence is a universal acknowledgement. And while being critical of my disclosure, wonder who is divulging in the cheap banter of numerical hours, since you are beating about the bush, care to elaborate, what battle experience your super dopers both men and machine have under their belt.

Its just a old habbit of bringing in "our fighters are better then theirs" and that is what he is pointing out....All he is saying is that fighter carrying the tricolour are also clocking 250 hours/annum...IN short they are not dummies you are going to fight with...so always making bug comments like our no matter what machine our fighters are sitting in they can just take down indians is not the right thing to beleive in...To me it is making lot of sense but as an adversary i would love if the same school of thought is prevailing in PAF....

 

[ashokdeiva]

Hey guys, in modern warfare its man and machine and not man or machine. a superior tech is always an augmentation to the pilots skill.

 

[Bossman]

However one can also not ignore what the adversary is upto.....IAF is improvising at a very brisk pace and PAF needs to work very very hard to keep her doctrine intact

Mostly on paper so far. No LCA, No MRCA, no M2K upgrade deal yet etc. etc. PAF is not sleeping and is mindful of the threat. JF17 inducted, F16 Blk52 inducted, F16 Blk 15/20 going through MLU to bring them up to Blk 50 level, FC-20 with AESA already ordered. Plus it will never be PAF vs IAF, ballistic missiles will have a big role in any future conflict. A plane can be great on paper but useless, if it doesn't have a base to operate from.

 

[SQ8]

Santro in a real war many things can happen....On an internet war all we can talk about is how good a plane is on paper...One cannot rely on other side making a mistake and being taken down....What if the other side don't make a mistake??? You are doomed, no??? You need to get best out there and i agree as per your pocket....However one can also not ignore what the adversary is upto.....IAF is improvising at a very brisk pace and PAF needs to work very very hard to keep her doctrine intact

I agree with you whole heartedly, however.. would you take an elephant killing blunderbuss to kill a duck??
what if the other side does have an elephant.. must you get the Moi expensive Colt Blunderbuss with a 4000 yard range with all the doohickies??
Or can you take something else, give it a larger calibre and still kill the elephant... perhaps 3000 yards is all that you need?? perhaps you can fit a longer muzzle to what you have and take it to 3800 yards?
Especially when there is so much available on what the elephant is, how it walks and runs..

The PAF isnt perfect.. their leadership isnt perfect..
but my god man.. after having fought three wars with an adversary.. and having all its focus diverted to one foe.. you would expect them to at least know half of their job instead of offering the bystanders advice.. without knowing all the details.

 

[Windjammer]

Does that mean that an experienced pilot on a F-7 take out EFTs or Rafales?

And if yes then how?

If past experience is anything to go by, some humble F-86s have taken out a few top dogs of the day.

 

[deckingraj]

First of all i like the response...because there is sense of logic in it...However i am on purpose keeping my response on a lighter side because don't want to derail the discussion on Rafael vs Block 52 any further...

Mostly on paper so far. No LCA, No MRCA, no M2K upgrade deal yet etc. etc. PAF is not sleeping and is mindful of the threat. JF17 inducted, F16 Blk52 inducted, F16 Blk 15/20 going through MLU to bring them up to Blk 50 level, FC-20 with AESA already ordered. Plus it will never be PAF vs IAF, ballistic missiles will have a big role in any future conflict. A plane can be great on paper but useless, if it doesn't have a base to operate from.

I am sorry but it is not on paper...we already haev 125+ MKI operations and they are on for an MLU(in shor a already a decade plus experience on them) apart from other plethora of things going on...That in itself is a serious threat.....Secondly with all due respect it takes a minimum of 4-5 years to master a plane and b/w if i am not wrong French avionics for JF-17 is still on hold and search is ongoing process, right??? In other words an ongoing process......b/w ballistic as well as cruise missiles are on both sides...In short my point that PAF has to work very very had to maintain her doctrine is no fanboy statement...

 

[deckingraj]

If past experience is anything to go by, some humble F-86s have taken out a few top dogs of the day.

Dude comon....Tell me earnestly what is the probability of humble F-86s taking top dogs of the day???? A person fighting with bow and arrow can also kill someone operating AK-47 but whom would like you like to put your money on????

 

[Skull and Bones]

If past experience is anything to go by, some humble F-86s have taken out a few top dogs of the day.

What ever keeps your boat afloat mate.

By that logic India should have gone for Mig-17s because of its tighter turning radius and its dog fighting abilities.

 

[deckingraj]

I agree with you whole heartedly, however.. would you take an elephant killing blunderbuss to kill a duck??
what if the other side does have an elephant.. must you get the Moi expensive Colt Blunderbuss with a 4000 yard range with all the doohickies??
Or can you take something else, give it a larger calibre and still kill the elephant... perhaps 3000 yards is all that you need?? perhaps you can fit a longer muzzle to what you have and take it to 3800 yards?
Especially when there is so much available on what the elephant is, how it walks and runs..

The PAF isnt perfect.. their leadership isnt perfect..
but my god man.. after having fought three wars with an adversary.. and having all its focus diverted to one foe.. you would expect them to at least know half of their job instead of offering the bystanders advice.. without knowing all the details.

Don't get me wrong...in fact that's why i said one need's to look at his/her pocket...Had PAF the money i am pretty sure you will not go for short-cuts....but if you take comments of some members on the money part then it surely confuses the hell out of you...No organization purposefully do anything that is going to be detrimental for them....They make plans taking into account what the adversary is upto and do the needful...I am sure PAF has thought about all this...However if you have to face a bigger-richer adversary like India complemented(in a negative way) with lack of funds there is no rocket science to conclude that your hands get tied...I am sure PAF is doing the best she can do...Question is if that is enough....