RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[ramu]

Rafale News: Le Bourget 2011, color HUD video

Rafale rocks :

 

[araz]

So you give up already, If conventionally your arse will get burned by indians then why even peruse for any projects. If what I said gave you Anger try managing your anger Your PAF's action will come to haunt you it will be smelt all the way upto UK before it touch down in Canada.

Here we noticed the negative approach, "do you think game would change". So the suggestion is to not buy since game can't be changed by a couple of squadrons this means a single squadron of F-16s too can't/won't change the game. That was a terrible negative assessment. The same finger points at those who hooray for 60/70 F-16s. Seems some people over here have lost their faith in the Air Force and the ground teams that they would not be able to cope with the technology. Please spare us of such lame excuses and nonsense. If Pakistan could deal back then with brand spanking new F-16s during 1980s with technology relatively very new at that time then surely we are able to deal with Rafales.

Let me again remind men over here of the fact that thailand and vietnam and a few other nations are operating SU-30/SU-27 and Gripens so why are we reluctant going on backfoot. Its a shame people don't have credible evidence of PAF unable to cope with Rafales and always have excuses.
So the question is why did PAF test trial Mirage 2000s/Tornados/Gripen/Rafale Just to have joy ride?? If PAF was unable to get these then what was the point in testing them were Europeans fools to let PAF fool them.

So if india is going to burn PAF's arse then why even go for thunders and imaginary FC-20s...go hit you selves, I stay corrected today's Air Force need to have the punch to go offensive as well. You and like minded men have given up that is all clear from your post. If that is the psyche of PAF then there it is the beginning of the end of the Air Force.

And no money was never the problem, when you people were toying with Mirage 2000s and Tornados that wasn't for fun and then you ditched it for cheap F-7s not once but twice where did the rest of money go. Let me remind you again $3.1 Billion dollars for 18 F-16s, weapons and other systems. That could have been channeled to 36 Rafales easily and Yes we could have maintained in your own words we are flying old french mirages due to financial trouble though its not true we could have replaced many of them in favor of a better new platform to give an all out advantage. Common sense old airframes consume more money.

Read my post again before you comment. You have conveniently taken the word offensive out of the argument. PAf has always maintained a credible defensive position for a reason. Have you ever thought about why? Neither I nor PAF has given up.Their answer is clerly visible to the world.I have elaborated on it in one of my posts, so dont want to repaet my self. As to getting angry, I am far too old and grey to bother to get angry with matters where I know the situation to be as I have stated it.You have rebuffed my argument about an offensiveair war against your adversary but dont have a counter argument as to how you see it as possible.So I am waiting to learn from you.
My approach is not negative but pragmatic!! To explain further, if you were to spend 5 billion to buy 50 Rafales, your opponent would have just gone ahead and bought twice the number of EFs(current order of 10.2Billion for 126 aircrafts expected to go upto 200) .Now do you have the reserves to modernize the fleet of 3rd generation fighters that you have ? What do you do to those. I think you wouldn't have the reserves for even the JFT. Consider that you are supporting an argument of buying rafales at the expense of F16s.So fore go your MLUs as well.(your 3.6 Billion contract included MLU kits for 36 F16s as well). And to top it off the US gets pissed off and does not give you 14 embargoed F16s as well .
Now coming to your argument of not dealing with the rafales. I have already given you examples of French generosity when it comes to spares. PAF has been forced to buy old frames partly to service its fleet of mirages. Add to it the problem of twin engines and you have double trouble. Then there are other issues ,like embargoes in 2002 of M3s which dispells the myth of these planes being sanction free. I have laready stated that the reason for PAFs preference of single engined fighters is that the corridor of action is so small that we dont need the luxury of ahaving twin engined fighters
You have commented at the capability of PAF in maintaining its fleet during embargo period. This was precisely due to the comonality of parts that were available on the market for F16s. We also had to cannabolize some of our figthters. You have none of that with the rafale so what do you do when you need parts that the supplier cant supply you? You have pointed at Viet nams buying of SUs ,but look at their threat perception. You adversary is right next door.
You have next gone on about testing planes. I wont go into that as I dont know!!
Asto going for thnders and FC20s it fits in with my perported logic of defensive strategy.notice also single engines. You have also delved into money not being a problem.I have yet to see a period when PAkistan has not had money problems.Some of the economists that I talked to in UK when most Pakistanis were on a flight of fancy about Pakistani reserves and how the economy was looking up, told me at that time that these were short term measures and associated with a lot of selling of assetts and other measures. I have been rebuffed on this forum in 2005-6 by Neo and other people when I said that the position of Pakistan was labile at best and we will get into trouble asthe long term problems have not been sorted. It is on record on this forum and you are free to look. Look at where we are today. So I think it is a falacy that PAF was in a position to make a substantial purchase of Rafales to satisfy your defence needs. I have already alluded to the assumption of flying Rafales to replace the M3s, so wont comment on that again.
LAstly I would like to say that just like most of us on this forum, I am in Love with Pakistan and its forces. However, I think that rational thoughts rather than flights of fancy is what we need.You are welcome to have your point of view as am I
Regards
Araz

 

[araz]

It will take a real war more likely with the US to put that one to rest. The hostilities between US and Pakistan at this rate will give all enough news on that. However, the topic here is F16 vs Rafale right ?

That is like saying that you will be free to use your Rafales against the french!!! Or India is free to use its MKIs against Russia or Israel from whom you have bought your EW suits.That is so fanciful, that I wont even go any further than that.
Araz

 

[nomi007]

the cost of rafale is twice as f-16 block 52+
rafale is twin engine jet while f-16 is single engine jet
if India will choose euro typhoon than Pakistan will purchase rafale or if India choose rafale than Pakistan will purchase euro typhoon
that thing is irritating India

 

[araz]

the cost of rafale is twice as f-16 block 52+
rafale is twin engine jet while f-16 is single engine jet
if India will choose euro typhoon than Pakistan will purchase rafale or if India choose rafale than Pakistan will purchase euro typhoon
that thing is irritating India

Nomi
Irrespective of what IAf purchases, PAF will not buy the rafale or EF .We are commited to JFT, FC20 and perhaps J20/JXX in future.
Araz

 

[nForce]

the cost of rafale is twice as f-16 block 52+
rafale is twin engine jet while f-16 is single engine jet
if India will choose euro typhoon than Pakistan will purchase rafale or if India choose rafale than Pakistan will purchase euro typhoon
that thing is irritating India

Actually the PAF does not have the money to buy any of the two.Thats why they decide to go with the JF-17 which costs 1/5th or close to 1/6th of Rafale and 1/7th of Typhoon

 

[majesticpankaj]

the cost of rafale is twice as f-16 block 52+
rafale is twin engine jet while f-16 is single engine jet
if India will choose euro typhoon than Pakistan will purchase rafale or if India choose rafale than Pakistan will purchase euro typhoon
that thing is irritating India

nobody is selling u right now... but it would be interesting to see the contenders if PAF issues RFI for new birds

 

[ramu]

the cost of rafale is twice as f-16 block 52+
rafale is twin engine jet while f-16 is single engine jet
if India will choose euro typhoon than Pakistan will purchase rafale or if India choose rafale than Pakistan will purchase euro typhoon
that thing is irritating India

no, not really. no sooner India chooses one, this forum will go berserk saying India made a wrong choice.

 

[araz]

Lets keep India out, shall we. We have not finalised Rafale yet. For what its worth, u have made a complete U turn

I have merely replied to your ridiculous post .There is no Uturn on my stated position
Araz

 

[Windjammer]

As mentioned elsewhere, after recommendations from a visiting RAF Air chief, the PAF evaluated the EF back in 2005 and didn't find it suitable for it's own mission requirements. The Dassault Rafale was also tested, apart from being expensive, the PAF wasn't keen to be the launch customer for the French Fighter. Hence, whatever the IAF chooses, the PAF will have no regrets.

 

[araz]

Actually the PAF does not have the money to buy any of the two.Thats why they decide to go with the JF-17 which costs 1/5th or close to 1/6th of Rafale and 1/7th of Typhoon

You are correct. However the reason behind buying the fighters which we have chosen is independence and camparative capabilites within our economic constraints.
Araz

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

@WJ-^^^ Didn't the EFT/Rafale undergo any changes since then(when your AF allegedly tested them) and now?!

 

[Windjammer]

Actually the PAF does not have the money to buy any of the two.Thats why they decide to go with the JF-17 which costs 1/5th or close to 1/6th of Rafale and 1/7th of Typhoon

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

 

[SpArK]

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

I agree with that logic . Even US should abandon Raptor and buy 10-15 JFT instead of it and money is the same.

 

[majesticpankaj]

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

please don't bring the number game....