RAFALE for Malaysia and Indonesia

[A.P. Richelieu]

The SU-35 has an RCS of around 5m2 now, it is different than the 15m2 of the SU-30, it has also the Khibiny electronic warfare system which is the equivalent of the Rafale Spectra.. and it has also a few AESA radars available to it, most of them are being tested.. and its uniqueness of the thrust vectoring nozzles which makes it super- manoeuvrable.. the price is good too.. the only shortcoming is that Russia does not offer ToT, it can offer an assembly line, and you have to finance any new technology's R&D that you want to be added, they will do the R&D and share the rights of the tech with you, which benefits both, but you have to pay for that, unlike ToT from France which is incorporated in the price..

5m2 is huge!
Use of the Radar will reveal its position very quickly, allowing a stealthy missile carrier
not using its radar to get its position through a datalink and kill it off.

 

[The SC]

5m2 is huge!
Use of the Radar will reveal its position very quickly, allowing a stealthy missile carrier
not using its radar to get its position through a datalink and kill it off.

The actual SU-35 radar range is 400 km, the SU has IRST too and Khibini like spectra, so it will depend on the skill of the pilots more than the airplane, since both have advantages and disadvantages..
Your video is irrelevant, both have guns!

 

[antonius123]

5m2 is huge!
Use of the Radar will reveal its position very quickly, allowing a stealthy missile carrier
not using its radar to get its position through a datalink and kill it off.

3m2 (SU35) more precisely compared to 2m2 of Rafale.

In spite of a bit higher RCS, with such powerwul Irbis E probably Irbis E could detect Rafale earlier than RBE detect SU35.

 

[Nike]

A. As Indonesia, Malaysia will also acquire the Rafale fighter, and include the local industry in the accompanying offset program.

B. Malaysia will acquire 18 units / 1 squadron of Rafale, with a leasing scheme which has been offered by one of the international banks that cooperate with local banks.

C. Indonesia forced / LIABLE to acquire a minimum of 20 units of Rafale on EARLY STAGE, as a prerequisite for TOT on one particular important technology, which will be done by PT DI.

D. Indonesia does not spend a penny to get TOT, but the whole value of the offset will be transferred to obtain certain important technologies that have been agreed.

E. Given the 20 units Rafale ordered are booking early stages, meaning there will be contractually obliged with another order in the next stages.

F. The question is, how many Rafale Indonesia will order in total?
http://jakartagreater.com/laga-rafale-tni-au-vs-rafale-tudm/

71th Anniversary of the Indonesian Air Force with... Rafale!?

France offers Indonesia Rafale technology transfer

IHS Jane's Defence Industry
26 March 2015


France has pledged to transfer technologies to Indonesia to enable local involvement in the production of the Dassault Rafale multirole combat aircraft if it is selected to meet a requirement in the Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU).

The French ambassador to Indonesia Corinne Breuzé said in a statement on 26 March that France intends to be flexible in facilitating Rafale collaboration between manufacturer Dassault and Indonesia's state-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara (PTDI).

She added, "With the support of the French government, Dassault is open to any possibility of partnerships and transfer technology." In the statement the ambassador also promoted the Rafale as a "100% French" aircraft that would provide the TNI-AU with operational independence, without the requirement for approval from a third party.


http://www.janes.com/article/50247/france-offers-indonesia-rafale-technology-transfer

Price-wise as of 2011
Rafale C (fly Away price) = $88.8 million
10 000 Euros for Rafale C and B, 7 000 Euros for Rafale M per hour of flight in 2012

EF Tyfoon (fly Away price) = $199.0 million
18 000 USD per hour of flight operating cost
https://defenseissues.net/tag/f-15-cost/

we aint Oil rich country, the chance is slim though.finger crossed

 

[hoangsa74]

I am not kidding you about electronic stuff on par with western. Did you read my citation?

Not so much different in RCS; Rafale is 0.5-2m, SU35 1-3.5m, thanks to her radar absorbent material
http://www.aviatia.net/rafale-vs-su-35/

SU35 RCS is a little bit larger than that of Rafale, however SU35's very powerful IRBIS radar can detect object much farther than Rafale's Thales RBE. Irbis-E can detect and track up at ranges near 350~400 kilometers

In addition, Irbis has been designed to detect low and super-low observable/stealth airborne threats. This is an X band multi-role radar with a passive phased antenna array (PAA) mounted on a two-step hydraulic drive unit (in azimuth and roll).
It can detect a target with RCS 3m2 at up to 350 km, (towards each other, in the area of 100 square degrees). It can detect a target with RCS 0.01m2 at up to 90 km.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irbis-E

Furthermore FGA50 AESA could be one feature of SU35 in the future.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17..._Sukhoi_Jets_At_Chinese_Air_show#.WO3E0mclHIU

Another advantage of the Su-35 is its L175M Khibiny radar jamming system. While American AESA radars are believed to be resistant to jamming, the same is not believed to be true of the radars in AIM-120 missiles; the air-to-air missiles may have a high failure rate against aircraft protected by the Khibiny.

Yes, I read your citation. Everyone can take Russian's claim with a grain of salt considering Russia has not fielded an AESA radar yet or whatever their RAM is considering stealth is mostly about the airframe and Su-35 airframe is nowhere to be stealthy as the Rafael. If RAM is the answer to having a stealthy aircraft, no one has to work hard to design a new airframe like the F-22, B-2, F-35, F-117, or even J-20. You know the answer, stealthy is not about material, it is about shaping of the jet to deflect radio signal

Meanwhile, Thales's RBE2-AA is a several thousand T/R module AESA radar that has been in service for years. AESA radar has low probability of intercept and high resistance to jamming by shifting frequency continuously. the chance of the su35 able to pick up the Rafael on radar or try to jam it is next to impossible my friend. why do you think china and Russia are trying to field a fighter with AESA radar?

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/RBE2-AA_a001508002.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanned_array#Advantages

 

[The SC]

we aint Oil rich country, the chance is slim though.finger crossed

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Indonesia is not poor either, and has big industries.. I do not like to speculate but the Saudi king's visit to both Malaysia and Indonesia a few weeks prior to these announcements might have encouraged such deals wit soft loans or loan guarantees... it is just a thought!

 

[Mo12]

After India, all the other buyers or potential buyers are muslim countries except Pakistan :S

Well all these nations have big economies which can afford this beautiful sets.

Muslim nations like Indonesia and Malaysia will buy the Rafaele jets, while nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria will buy weaker and cheaper Chinese jets instead

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Well all these nations have big economies which can afford this beautiful sets.

Muslim nations like Indonesia and Malaysia will buy the Rafaele jets, while nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria will buy weaker and cheaper Chinese jets instead

But those cheaper jets are enough to take on over rated air forces like IAF.

 

[Hassan Guy]

$300 million per plane, these europeans can't make affordable planes for shit nowdays.

No wonder their exports are only a fraction of what it once was.

 

[Mo12]

But those cheaper jets are enough to take on over rated air forces like IAF.

Stop the lying, even your people still say F-16 is still better than the JF-17 despite being many years older

 

[Hassan Guy]

Well all these nations have big economies which can afford this beautiful sets.

Muslim nations like Indonesia and Malaysia will buy the Rafaele jets, while nations like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria will buy weaker and cheaper Chinese jets instead

Production of J-7 has ended.

Stop the lying, even your people still say F-16 is still better than the JF-17 despite being many years older

Depends which block/variant we speak of.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Stop the lying, even your people still say F-16 is still better than the JF-17 despite being many years older

Oh I am even not going into comparison between jf17 or f16. I just said those Chinese jets are more them enough for your airforce to take on. Thanks !

 

[antonius123]

Yes, I read your citation. Everyone can take Russian's claim with a grain of salt considering Russia has not fielded an AESA radar yet or whatever their RAM is considering stealth is mostly about the airframe and Su-35 airframe is nowhere to be stealthy as the Rafael. If RAM is the answer to having a stealthy aircraft, no one has to work hard to design a new airframe like the F-22, B-2, F-35, F-117, or even J-20. You know the answer, stealthy is not about material, it is about shaping of the jet to deflect radio signal

Nobody said RAM is the only solution for RCS reduction, and nobody deny that Rafale has smaller RCS.
But the citation has said that Rafale RCS is not so much smaller than RCS of SU35.

You need to get the point correct in the first place.

Rafale RCS is much smaller than that of SU27 or SU33, but not so much compared to that of SU35.

Meanwhile Irbis detection range and power is significantly above RBE; so in term who get first look first kill not necessarily goes to Rafale, even it could SU35 detect Rafale first.

Meanwhile, Thales's RBE2-AA is a several thousand T/R module AESA radar that has been in service for years. AESA radar has low probability of intercept and high resistance to jamming by shifting frequency continuously. the chance of the su35 able to pick up the Rafael on radar or try to jam it is next to impossible my friend. why do you think china and Russia are trying to field a fighter with AESA radar?

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/RBE2-AA_a001508002.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanned_array#Advantages

Yes AESA (RBE2) is more difficult to be jammed than PESA (Irbis E).

So if you are talking which one is more jam / intercept resistant, RBE2 is better.

But if you are talking who will first look/detect, AESA is not better than PESA in this area.

You are correct, both Rusia and China has been developing AESA too, thats what I said that before that AESA FGA50 could be fitted to SU35 as well.

So there is possibility that Indonesia will get SU35 with FGA50 if she prefer AESA.

But like my citation said, Irbis-E is also has its own advantage considering hypothetically it could detect STEALTH! and has detection range 350 - 400km! that allow it to first see - first shoot - first kill.

 

[Sully3]

I still remember indians chest thumping that they would be the only country in asia to operate the rafa