RAFALE for Malaysia and Indonesia

[The SC]

A. As Indonesia, Malaysia will also acquire the Rafale fighter, and include the local industry in the accompanying offset program.

B. Malaysia will acquire 18 units / 1 squadron of Rafale, with a leasing scheme which has been offered by one of the international banks that cooperate with local banks.

C. Indonesia forced / LIABLE to acquire a minimum of 20 units of Rafale on EARLY STAGE, as a prerequisite for TOT on one particular important technology, which will be done by PT DI.

D. Indonesia does not spend a penny to get TOT, but the whole value of the offset will be transferred to obtain certain important technologies that have been agreed.

E. Given the 20 units Rafale ordered are booking early stages, meaning there will be contractually obliged with another order in the next stages.

F. The question is, how many Rafale Indonesia will order in total?
http://jakartagreater.com/laga-rafale-tni-au-vs-rafale-tudm/
http://jakartagreater.com/laga-rafale-tni-au-vs-rafale-tudm/
http://jakartagreater.com/laga-rafale-tni-au-vs-rafale-tudm/

71th Anniversary of the Indonesian Air Force with... Rafale!?

France offers Indonesia Rafale technology transfer

IHS Jane's Defence Industry
26 March 2015


France has pledged to transfer technologies to Indonesia to enable local involvement in the production of the Dassault Rafale multirole combat aircraft if it is selected to meet a requirement in the Indonesian Air Force (TNI-AU).

The French ambassador to Indonesia Corinne Breuzé said in a statement on 26 March that France intends to be flexible in facilitating Rafale collaboration between manufacturer Dassault and Indonesia's state-owned aerospace company PT Dirgantara (PTDI).

She added, "With the support of the French government, Dassault is open to any possibility of partnerships and transfer technology." In the statement the ambassador also promoted the Rafale as a "100% French" aircraft that would provide the TNI-AU with operational independence, without the requirement for approval from a third party.


http://www.janes.com/article/50247/france-offers-indonesia-rafale-technology-transfer
http://www.janes.com/article/50247/france-offers-indonesia-rafale-technology-transfer

Price-wise as of 2011
Rafale C (fly Away price) = $88.8 million
10 000 Euros for Rafale C and B, 7 000 Euros for Rafale M per hour of flight in 2012

EF Tyfoon (fly Away price) = $199.0 million
18 000 USD per hour of flight operating cost
https://defenseissues.net/tag/f-15-cost/
https://defenseissues.net/tag/f-15-cost/

 

[antonius123]

Since they already have Flankers, why not go for SU35 instead?

 

[Fledgingwings]

Interesting.

 

[The SC]

Since they already have Flankers, why not go for SU35 instead?

Russia does not offer ToT for the SU-35..

 

[hoangsa74]

Russia does not offer ToT for the SU-35..

bingo.

 

[antonius123]

Russia does not offer ToT for the SU-35..

Rusia is offering TOT too for the purchase of SU-35

 

[hoangsa74]

Rusia is offering TOT too for the purchase of SU-35

even if that's true (which is highly unlikely), the su35 is just an su27 on steroid; to be blunt, su35 is a piece of sh it compared to a western aircraft like the dassault Rafael which is much stealthier and having more advanced electronic stuff.

 

[antonius123]

even if that's true (which is highly unlikely),

That is true about TOT
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/12349/Russia_Offers_Su_35_Tech_Transfer_To_Indonesia#.WO2xqmclHIU

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/03/09/russia-ready-transfer-sukhoi-technologies-ri-envoy.html

the su35 is just an su27 on steroid; to be blunt, su35 is a piece of sh it compared to a western aircraft like the dassault Rafael which is much stealthier and having more advanced electronic stuff.

Distinguished by its unrivaled maneuverability, most of the Su-35’s electronics and weapons capabilities have caught up with those of Western equivalents, like the F-15 Eagle. But while it may be a deadly adversary to F-15s, Eurofighters and Rafales, the big question mark remains how effectively it can contend with fifth-generation stealth fighters such as the F-22 and F-35.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/why-russias-enemies-should-fear-the-su-35-fighter-16995

 

[hoangsa74]

That is true about TOT
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/12349/Russia_Offers_Su_35_Tech_Transfer_To_Indonesia#.WO2xqmclHIU

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/03/09/russia-ready-transfer-sukhoi-technologies-ri-envoy.html




Distinguished by its unrivaled maneuverability, most of the Su-35’s electronics and weapons capabilities have caught up with those of Western equivalents, like the F-15 Eagle. But while it may be a deadly adversary to F-15s, Eurofighters and Rafales, the big question mark remains how effectively it can contend with fifth-generation stealth fighters such as the F-22 and F-35.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/why-russias-enemies-should-fear-the-su-35-fighter-16995

Modern warfare is about BVR, su-35's rcs just betrays itself before it can shoot first and scoot; the Rafael will control the fight and decide when and how to engage due to its stealthy rcs. I hope you're not kidding when you claim su35 is on par with western jet in term of electronic stuff. Su35 does not have AESA; the Fafael does.

Let's switch role and say that su35 is stealthier than the Rafael, f-15, and su35 is equipped with AESA. Please don't tell us Su35 in this case is inferior to the Rafael or f15

 

[kmc_chacko]

That is true about TOT
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/12349/Russia_Offers_Su_35_Tech_Transfer_To_Indonesia#.WO2xqmclHIU

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/03/09/russia-ready-transfer-sukhoi-technologies-ri-envoy.html

Distinguished by its unrivaled maneuverability, most of the Su-35’s electronics and weapons capabilities have caught up with those of Western equivalents, like the F-15 Eagle. But while it may be a deadly adversary to F-15s, Eurofighters and Rafales, the big question mark remains how effectively it can contend with fifth-generation stealth fighters such as the F-22 and F-35.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/why-russias-enemies-should-fear-the-su-35-fighter-16995

Which Air Force they are facing which has F-22s & F-35s ?

 

[The SC]

The SU-35 is one of the best superiority fighters out there, due to its payload and EW-ECM and the weapons it can carry, if for nothing else..I do not think the Russians will give ToT for it, since it is the latest and most modern of their fighter until the Pak-Fa is ready, and even then I doubt it.. they have refused ToT to China, let alone Indonesia or Malaysia!
Rafale is an astonishing Multi-role fighter and ToT makes it more attractive, even if it is more expansive than the SU-35..

 

[royalharris]

even if that's true (which is highly unlikely), the su35 is just an su27 on steroid; to be blunt, su35 is a piece of sh it compared to a western aircraft like the dassault Rafael which is much stealthier and having more advanced electronic stuff.

west

 

[The SC]

Modern warfare is about BVR, su-35's rcs just betrays itself before it can shoot first and scoot; the Rafael will control the fight and decide when and how to engage due to its stealthy rcs. I hope you're not kidding when you claim su35 is on par with western jet in term of electronic stuff. Su35 does not have AESA; the Fafael does.

Let's switch role and say that su35 is stealthier than the Rafael, f-15, and su35 is equipped with AESA. Please don't tell us Su35 in this case is inferior to the Rafael or f15

The SU-35 has an RCS of around 5m2 now, it is different than the 15m2 of the SU-30, it has also the Khibiny electronic warfare system which is the equivalent of the Rafale Spectra.. and it has also a few AESA radars available to it, most of them are being tested.. and its uniqueness of the thrust vectoring nozzles which makes it super- manoeuvrable.. the price is good too.. the only shortcoming is that Russia does not offer ToT, it can offer an assembly line, and you have to finance any new technology's R&D that you want to be added, they will do the R&D and share the rights of the tech with you, which benefits both, but you have to pay for that, unlike ToT from France which is incorporated in the price..

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

After India, all the other buyers or potential buyers are muslim countries except Pakistan :S

 

[antonius123]

Modern warfare is about BVR, su-35's rcs just betrays itself before it can shoot first and scoot; the Rafael will control the fight and decide when and how to engage due to its stealthy rcs. I hope you're not kidding when you claim su35 is on par with western jet in term of electronic stuff. Su35 does not have AESA; the Fafael does.

Let's switch role and say that su35 is stealthier than the Rafael, f-15, and su35 is equipped with AESA. Please don't tell us Su35 in this case is inferior to the Rafael or f15

I am not kidding you about electronic stuff on par with western. Did you read my citation?

Not so much different in RCS; Rafale is 0.5-2m, SU35 1-3.5m, thanks to her radar absorbent material
http://www.aviatia.net/rafale-vs-su-35/

SU35 RCS is a little bit larger than that of Rafale, however SU35's very powerful IRBIS radar can detect object much farther than Rafale's Thales RBE. Irbis-E can detect and track up at ranges near 350~400 kilometers

In addition, Irbis has been designed to detect low and super-low observable/stealth airborne threats. This is an X band multi-role radar with a passive phased antenna array (PAA) mounted on a two-step hydraulic drive unit (in azimuth and roll).
It can detect a target with RCS 3m2 at up to 350 km, (towards each other, in the area of 100 square degrees). It can detect a target with RCS 0.01m2 at up to 90 km.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irbis-E

Furthermore FGA50 AESA could be one feature of SU35 in the future.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17..._Sukhoi_Jets_At_Chinese_Air_show#.WO3E0mclHIU

Another advantage of the Su-35 is its L175M Khibiny radar jamming system. While American AESA radars are believed to be resistant to jamming, the same is not believed to be true of the radars in AIM-120 missiles; the air-to-air missiles may have a high failure rate against aircraft protected by the Khibiny.