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Rafale deal: India, France clinch offset deal; France agrees to invest 50% worth in related sectors

All these delays and cost overruns could have been easily avoided if the Indian government hadn't kept harping on tot and shit!!What they should have done was to buy the Rafales off the shelf in fly away condition and then invest in setting up a chain of an extensive repairing cum overhauling facilities across various locations in country!!But instead,the governments,in all their wisdom,have always decided to go for some 'ToT' with their misplaced believe that somehow this can magically result in self reliance in fabricating world class equipment and have churned (wasted would be a more precise term to use) out huge sums of tax payers money over virtually nothing,(money which could and should have been used on various universities and R&D centers,to nurture and cultivate the talents and the in-country R&D) and look where it has brought us to!!Just imagine where we could have been and instead where we have ended up!!The situation now we are in as far as aeronautics go,can be termed nothing but plain sad!!Mr Prasun K Sengupta summed it up quite nicely and I'm paraphrasing here :

" No one in the world parts with any technology. They only part with industrial production methodologies & thgis is known as ToT. So, without the former, the latter becomes only licenced-production. Consequently, all this ToT can NEVER be applied for the development or production of any other product ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
As for India have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for weapons procurements & the kind ToT that never translates into indigenous product solutions, this has been going on since the 1960s itself with regard to the IAF. Why are you therefore so surprised with the Rafale? If you desire a product that is cheaper to buy then you have to forego this stupid & preposterous option of licenced-production. A Su-30MKI costs only Rs.242 crores if imported from Russia, but costs Rs.358 crores if built in India. Therefore,if you do the math, you will conclude that just for the sake of keeping less than 5,000 workers of HAL engaged in some form of industrial activity, India has had to fork out an extra Rs.35,000+ crores for licence-building 272 Su-30MKIs! What kind of economic/commercial logic is that? And in what way has all this effort helped India with the LCA’s R & D endeavours? You therefore need to rationalize & analyse with a cool head all these inputs, & not blindly believe all the trash & utter baloney that successive Govts of India have force-fed the Indian public about the mythical (not tangible) merits of licenced-production & self-sufficiency in defence production. In other words, a long overdue reality check is direly reqd. Remember, that Rs.35,000 crores could easily have been saved & invested in the Rafale project had the Govt of India decided to import the Su-30MKIs off-the-shelf. One should always get one’s priorities right. "
 
Rafale is good plane, France give us without strings..

But isn't the relevance of getting rafale is waning away ?

We don't need on western front , eastern front 36 is only sufficient for limited short war, even that won't be enough since Chinese 5 generation aircrafts will be inducted even before we induct rafale ..


So what is the necessity for rafale ? At such a cost.

For that price Barracuda submarine will be relevant buy.
 
Declaration Trappier today 36 Rafale that are in negotiation with India are a first step.
There will be necessarily a second but it was not defined
Credit to Picdelamirand-oil who added the opinion
 
Rafale is good plane, France give us without strings..

But isn't the relevance of getting rafale is waning away ?

We don't need on western front , eastern front 36 is only sufficient for limited short war, even that won't be enough since Chinese 5 generation aircrafts will be inducted even before we induct rafale ..


So what is the necessity for rafale ? At such a cost.

For that price Barracuda submarine will be relevant buy.

Exactly!!Rafale would have been a great addition,only if the Government could act faster.But now,as things stand today,I think India would be better off with cancelling this deal and instead channel this 9 billion USDs into development of LCA MkII and AMCA!!
 
All these delays and cost overruns could have been easily avoided if the Indian government hadn't kept harping on tot and shit!!What they should have done was to buy the Rafales off the shelf in fly away condition and then invest in setting up a chain of an extensive repairing cum overhauling facilities across various locations in country!!But instead,the governments,in all their wisdom,have always decided to go for some 'ToT' with their misplaced believe that somehow this can magically result in self reliance in fabricating world class equipment and have churned (wasted would be a more precise term to use) out huge sums of tax payers money over virtually nothing,(money which could and should have been used on various universities and R&D centers,to nurture and cultivate the talents and the in-country R&D) and look where it has brought us to!!Just imagine where we could have been and instead where we have ended up!!The situation now we are in as far as aeronautics go,can be termed nothing but plain sad!!Mr Prasun K Sengupta summed it up quite nicely and I'm paraphrasing here :

" No one in the world parts with any technology. They only part with industrial production methodologies & thgis is known as ToT. So, without the former, the latter becomes only licenced-production. Consequently, all this ToT can NEVER be applied for the development or production of any other product ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
As for India have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for weapons procurements & the kind ToT that never translates into indigenous product solutions, this has been going on since the 1960s itself with regard to the IAF. Why are you therefore so surprised with the Rafale? If you desire a product that is cheaper to buy then you have to forego this stupid & preposterous option of licenced-production. A Su-30MKI costs only Rs.242 crores if imported from Russia, but costs Rs.358 crores if built in India. Therefore,if you do the math, you will conclude that just for the sake of keeping less than 5,000 workers of HAL engaged in some form of industrial activity, India has had to fork out an extra Rs.35,000+ crores for licence-building 272 Su-30MKIs! What kind of economic/commercial logic is that? And in what way has all this effort helped India with the LCA’s R & D endeavours? You therefore need to rationalize & analyse with a cool head all these inputs, & not blindly believe all the trash & utter baloney that successive Govts of India have force-fed the Indian public about the mythical (not tangible) merits of licenced-production & self-sufficiency in defence production. In other words, a long overdue reality check is direly reqd. Remember, that Rs.35,000 crores could easily have been saved & invested in the Rafale project had the Govt of India decided to import the Su-30MKIs off-the-shelf. One should always get one’s priorities right. "
All this cost over run and delay could have been avoided If our Govt had accepted french offer of tranferring Mirage 2000 production line to India not only that we could have saved alot of money on Mirage 2000 upgrade also...
 
All this cost over run and delay could have been avoided If our Govt had accepted french offer of transferring Mirage 2000 production line to India not only that we could have saved alot of money on Mirage 2000 upgrade also...

Very true,but I was specifically talking about the follow up (rather,after fuckk up!!) Rafale deal,which unfortunately,is again moving towards another fuckk up of galactic proportions!!
 
Very true,but I was specifically talking about the follow up (rather,after fuckk up!!) Rafale deal,which unfortunately,is again moving towards another fuckk up of galactic proportions!!

It is unlikely this govt. will walk into a fcuk up. Neither Manohar Parikkar nor Modi is capable of that. The odds of them BOTH fcuking up is next to impossible.

Let us see how this plays out.
 
It is unlikely this govt. will walk into a fcuk up. Neither Manohar Parikkar nor Modi is capable of that. The odds of them BOTH fcuking up is next to impossible.
It's too early to say something like that.But if the GoI actually signs this deal,that accepting 36 Rafales with such an exorbitant price-tag of 9 fuckking billion USDs,then it would be a blunder of galactic proportions,no two way to put it.

Let us see how this plays out.
Lets.

No, cause all 36 will come from France.

The rest, total number unsure, will be made in India. Total jets could be as little as 80 to as high as 180.

Logically speaking,instead going through this stupid ToT drama all over again, India should have imported all of the planes off the shelf,in flyaway condition straight from Dassault.That way,at least we could have ensured timely deliveries of the fighters at a far more reduced price tag!!Guess common sense is not so common after all.
 
No, cause all 36 will come from France.

The rest, total number unsure, will be made in India. Total jets could be as little as 80 to as high as 180.

As high as 180? You must surely be joking. Mean, local Indian effort.....100+ jets....confirmed failures and delays. WHAT?
 
It's too early to say something like that.But if the GoI actually signs this deal,that accepting 36 Rafales with such an exorbitant price-tag of 9 fuckking billion USDs,then it would be a blunder of galactic proportions,no two way to put it.

That would depend on what is included in the deal. No point in throwing a fit by speculation.

Logically speaking,instead going through this stupid ToT drama all over again, India should have imported all of the planes off the shelf,in flyaway condition straight from Dassault.That way,at least we could have ensured timely deliveries of the fighters at a far more reduced price tag!!Guess common sense is not so common after all.

Logically speaking we should have been developing our own Aircraft Like China or even Sweden or Israel or France etc.
 
That would depend on what is included in the deal. No point in throwing a fit by speculation.

Well,true that.For example,if the deal includes the Barracuda SSNs,then.......... ;)

Logically speaking we should have been developing our own Aircraft Like China or even Sweden or Israel or France etc.
My point exactly.
 
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