Rafale and JF-17 Thunder to compete in Serbia.

[monitor]

 

[SQ8]

described by the head of the Pakistan air force, Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleman;

Five countries in the Middle East are evaluating the JF-17

and continues...

Nowhere did he talk of aircraft being "shipped" to a country for a test fly and then shipped back..
extrapolating on other's rumors..

and continues.

 

[Bratva]

Nowhere did he talk of aircraft being "shipped" to a country for a test fly and then shipped back..
extrapolating on other's rumors..

and continues.

might be catic was involved in shipping the "FC-1" to argentina as catic is more activw in marketing campagin of JF-17 then PAC

 

[SQ8]

might be catic was involved in shipping the "FC-1" to argentina as catic is more activw in marketing campagin of JF-17 then PAC

I have posed this question to the relevant sources.. No shipping the craft was involved.
the very exact reason given to me was WHY would the manufacturer ship anything to Argentina and back if the manufacturer has no plans of exporting the aircraft for three years.

And this is what Pshamim's post says

It is reported that one JF-17 was airlifted to Argentina for testing in Argentina.

And now.. to further verify that.. IF the said shipping to Argentina happened.. this would have to be done through three ways.

1. Fly the aircraft to Argentina:
This would mean taking the aircraft via multiple stops throughout the middle east, africa and then onto South America.
So if this did happen .. NOBODY at the stopover airports or at any airport in Argentina noticed a JF-17 flying by?
it would stick out like a sore thumb and the people that post hundreds of photographs everyweek on airliners.net or other sites did NOT notice?
A single JF-17 would not fly without some form of support.. as an emergency could happen anytime and support crews and assistance are needed.. even F-16's on delivery flights to Pakistan do not fly alone...yet this aircraft would fly solo to Argentina?

2. Via the Sea: A JF-17 was partially disassembled or put on top of a container ship from either China or Karachi and went on the sea to Argentina in utmost secrecy..
There the support staff put the bird back to flying status after a check on corrosion, damage etc.. gave demonstrations over Argentina in utmost secrecy again away from the prying eyes of Argentinean military fans and then repeated the process of making the aircraft "safe" for the trip home.

3. Via Air transport: the aircraft was disassembled .. put into an IL-76 or Condor .. flown across many airports into Argentina.. assembled there again in a process that took nothing short of two weeks..and test flown by Argentina(again without anyone noticing)
Then disassembled again.. and flown back.

So..Which of these looks plausible for an actual occurring?

Infact.. it was based on what Mr Pshamim said that I tried to verify by my own source.. and the answer was a most vehement no.. No JF-17 has EVER been to South America... the furthest they have been is farnborough.
YES.. Argentina HAS expressed interested along with more nations and YES they along with others have been invited to fly the simulator in CATIC.
But that is THAT.

Exports of the JF-17 will ONLY happen if there is a free production line.
currently there is ONLY one that can mass produce it and that is in Pakistan which rolls out a ready-to-fly JF-17.
The PAF as a shareholder in the JF-17 does NOT want to shift production lines to ANYWHERE else except Pakistan as per CURRENT decided plans.

 

[BATMAN]

 

[ezequielcuello14]

might be catic was involved in shipping the "FC-1" to argentina as catic is more activw in marketing campagin of JF-17 then PAC

CATIC might be sent him, because Fadea (aircraft factory in Argentina) has a close relationship with CATIC, months ago signed a contract between two companies for which our factory argentina produces the z11 helicopter, in addition to other contracts already signed

 

[Luftwaffe]

CATIC might be sent him, because Fadea (aircraft factory in Argentina) has a close relationship with CATIC, months ago signed a contract between two companies for which our factory argentina produces the z11 helicopter, in addition to other contracts already signed

When is Argentinean Air Force replacing Mirages/Neshers israeli variant of Mirages. I do know A-4s (rumors of retirement which proved wrong) would drag a few more years many would be used for attrition till the final phase out. Mirages on the other hand are over due for replacement.

Does israeli factor would cause any steer in future exports of PAC involvement in exports of FC-1/JF-17 knowing isrealis have a regular visits to check-out items.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

When is Argentinean Air Force replacing Mirages/Neshers israeli variant of Mirages. I do know A-4s (rumors of retirement which proved wrong) would drag a few more years many would be used for attrition till the final phase out. Mirages on the other hand are over due for replacement.

Does israeli factor would cause any steer in future exports of PAC involvement in exports of FC-1/JF-17 knowing isrealis have a regular visits to check-out items.

and Indian factor too, once we have our own requirement fulfilled we will consider our customers carefully to ensure its not offered for inspection to the Indians (for obvious reasons)

because we have no direct conflict with Israelis, they might be only be interested to know more in case any rival Arab airforce becomes a potential customer of these planes that are not dogged by the American bugs.

their proactive and pre-emptive doctrine coupled with the American taxpayers money means they have a lot to spare to go at extra length to keep an eye on all present and potential enemies & their supporters. I wont be surprised if they try to get one from say Bangladesh or any African country just like they stole a Mig-21 from Iraq in 1966 in operation diamond.

For that reason Bangladesh should be last in the list because the “right Bangladeshi” government wont waste a minute to give Indians access to this plane.

 

[Edevelop]

 

[Tshering22]

and Indian factor too, once we have our own requirement fulfilled we will consider our customers carefully to ensure its not offered for inspection to the Indians (for obvious reasons)

But whatever variants you have will be different from what China offers Serbia. Basically the FC-1 variant they get will be unique to their requirement considering their needs. PAF and SAF has very different needs I believe. Serbia may need not more than a 100 jets to just air police and ensure that Balkans remain safe while you are keeping us in mind.

because we have no direct conflict with Israelis, they might be only be interested to know more in case any rival Arab airforce becomes a potential customer of these planes that are not dogged by the American bugs.

But which Arab country is likely to acquire FC-1s? There is a lot of difference between "interest", "intent" and "purchase". Yemen may be interested to replace its older MiG-29s with new FC-1s, Syria has already bought a huge stash of jets from Russia, while the rest of Arab forces have western weapons systems.

Technically neither Israel nor we have any interest in trying to gauge out what Serbians want. It is their country's needs and for them.

their proactive and pre-emptive doctrine coupled with the American taxpayers money means they have a lot to spare to go at extra length to keep an eye on all present and potential enemies & their supporters. I wont be surprised if they try to get one from say Bangladesh or any African country just like they stole a Mig-21 from Iraq in 1966 in operation diamond.

Israel is set to acquire F-35Is and you're expecting them to steal jets from Serbia? . Israelis and Serbs get along quite well. The main jets of interest are of two types for Israel:

1- Typhoons: new blood and unknown adversary. They can get to know from the Europeans any time via USA.
2- F-15SE: A USA product duh. Besides, if there is anyone who knows F-15 series totally it is Israelis themselves.

For that reason Bangladesh should be last in the list because the “right Bangladeshi” government wont waste a minute to give Indians access to this plane.

You will offend Iadjani and Munshi with such comments, buddy. Don't do that. Firstly, a sensible government in Bangladesh would spend heavily on acquiring modern SAM batteries criss-crossing their national limits as they really don't need jets either against us or the Burmese. There is some amount of distrust I will agree, but it isn't as bad as shown here on PDF. Buying swanky jets would be a waste of Bangladesh's money against either us or Burmese. Burmese military budget is equal to yours and as you know, junta governments always stress on military development first.

 

[ezequielcuello14]

When is Argentinean Air Force replacing Mirages/Neshers israeli variant of Mirages. I do know A-4s (rumors of retirement which proved wrong) would drag a few more years many would be used for attrition till the final phase out. Mirages on the other hand are over due for replacement.

Does israeli factor would cause any steer in future exports of PAC involvement in exports of FC-1/JF-17 knowing isrealis have a regular visits to check-out items.

yes, the mirage will be decommissioned in 2016 and Fightinghawk a4ar be out of service in 2020

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Tshering22


thanks for your observations


its nothing personal pure matter of fact talk in terms of defence.
yes there is a difference in variants’ but they are not far off from the main concept. thats why Americans and Israelis keep the aggressor squadrons of Mig-29s etc which might be different to what Iran or Syria etc might have but all they need is understand the main concept and train their pilots to exploit the weaknesses and avoid the the situations where the opponent aircraft maybe stronger.

And yes yes you don’t need to educate us for what Israel is going to get like F 35s, they already operate F15s and block 60 F-162 and what not that the money can buy but that doesn’t mean they sit idle.
Although your comments about difference between showing interest and intent from actual sale maybe very reassuring for few people but the military planners don’t go by sentiments their contingency planning covers all possibilities.

And no need to “doh” the comment, Mig21 story is an example, the host might willingly show the item to interested parties if they have good relations and that’s why I mentioned Bangladesh (and its possible willingness to show the JF-17 to Indians which is going to be our workhorse) but I assume that you forgot that bit and decided to doh the comment J

Never underestimate the enemy, Israel never does. While they will be keeping an eye on typhoon and SU30s, they wont pass the chance on JF-17 because its no match to what toys they got. that’s enough of Israeli talk now I hope we can move on

 

[CheefCoach]

Government changed since then, and deal for MiG 29 for Syria felt thru, so I believe that some of those Migs will come in Serbia. Sorry guys.

 

[fatman17]

Government changed since then, and deal for MiG 29 for Syria felt thru, so I believe that some of those Migs will come in Serbia. Sorry guys.

no problem - we were not expecting anything - waste of bandwidth here...

 

[bdslph]

it will be a hard contestant if deal go through for the JF17 it will be a major sale for the PAKISTAN
so GOOD LUCK PAKISTAN