Questions on 9/11 remain unanswered

[lem34]

The CIA does not have authority to act inside the US. This is not Pakistan where the intelligence service have a free hand.

Oh Gambit thats a bit weak. They know that america is about to be attacked and they dont pass that information to the appropriete agency. heads should roll there.

 

[VCheng]

Oh Gambit thats a bit weak. They know that america is about to be attacked and they dont pass that information to the appropriete agency. heads should roll there.

Why don't you worry about which heads should roll in Pakistan, and leave the US to worry about its own house?

 

[lem34]

Why don't you worry about which heads should roll in Pakistan, and leave the US to worry about its own house?

Off topic as usual. You come here to prop american views and do your own pakistan down. well done

 

[Jango]

If the goal is to implicate 'terrorism', then nerve gas or internally placed explosions would be just as effective as crashing remote controlled aircrafts and would be much cheaper. Remember, terrorism is about the mind, not the physical being, of the targets.


Steel under a compression load does not need to melt in order to fail. I do not see what is it about the words 'compression load', which clearly denote constant pressure, that is so difficult to understand.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------


Not necessarily. Our resident airliner pilot can explain better as flights are fueled only to what is needed plus some overhead to compensate for unanticipated events.

There are two things , Maximum Takeoff weight, and Maximum landing weight. And on most aircraft the maximum landing weight is less than the maximum takeoff weight. So, the plane has enough fuel to make the journey, and also some extra to counter any unexpected events. So, it is a myth that the planes were fully fuelled, their tanks would have not been full considering the amount of time they were in the air.

As for the underlined part, that is what i said, if the objective was to get an excuse for attacking Afghanistan, then a Sarin or toxin gas attack on a enclosed environment as a ship would have been much better, rather than taking airplanes and hitting them to the Pentagon and WTC, both, very critical places for the US.

It is not a inside job by the US people, get over it, it has been ten years, but some questions are a bit on the grey area.

 

[VCheng]

Off topic as usual. You come here to prop american views and do your own pakistan down. well done

Actually I am on topic and correct, as usual.

If Pakistanis spend more time, effort and thought in bettering their own country rather than paying attention to everywhere else in the world, may be Pakistan can develop.

---------- Post added at 08:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 AM ----------

There are two things , Maximum Takeoff weight, and Maximum landing weight. And on most aircraft the maximum landing weight is less than the maximum takeoff weight. So, the plane has enough fuel to make the journey, and also some extra to counter any unexpected events. So, it is a myth that the planes were fully fuelled, their tanks would have not been full considering the amount of time they were in the air.

As for the underlined part, that is what i said, if the objective was to get an excuse for attacking Afghanistan, then a Sarin or toxin gas attack on a enclosed environment as a ship would have been much better, rather than taking airplanes and hitting them to the Pentagon and WTC, both, very critical places for the US.

It is not a inside job by the US people, get over it, it has been ten years, but some questions are a bit on the grey area.

Those were long haul flights and therefore took off with a full load of fuel.

 

[Chogy]

Dont forget his mustard gas and weapons of mass destruction and everything else. USA has a lot of unanswered questions.

Unfortunately, these Iraqi Kurds cannot speak for themselves... IRAQ MANUFACTURED THESE POISONS.

 

[fd24]

Unfortunately, these Iraqi Kurds cannot speak for themselves... IRAQ MANUFACTURED THESE POISONS.

your government was complicit with Saddam when he was doing this killing and gave him these deadly weapons when he was your best friend. I think its a bit cheap and low of you to put pics on here of kids dead. typical American propaganda. you supported the dictator you made him what he became you provided these weapons. How low do you guys stoop?

 

[gambit]

your government was complicit with Saddam when he was doing this killing and gave him these deadly weapons when he was your best friend. I think its a bit cheap and low of you to put pics on here of kids dead. typical American propaganda. you supported the dictator you made him what he became you provided these weapons. How low do you guys stoop?

So did most of the ME. And Iraq's chemical weapons had Egyptian origins...

Chemical weapon proliferation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 1980s, Egypt supplied Iraq with mustard gas and nerve agents, and related production and deployment technology.

 

[lem34]

then this story will never end sadly.

It will end we are at the start of the end for america. They are denial or pretending its not but it is

---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------

So did most of the ME. And Iraq's chemical weapons had Egyptian origins...

Chemical weapon proliferation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your justification for america doing bad is because other countries did it.

 

[lem34]

Unfortunately, these Iraqi Kurds cannot speak for themselves... IRAQ MANUFACTURED THESE POISONS.

But Chogy whilst this was going on Rumsfield was there shaking hands and patting Saddam on his back. The point is that americas concern for human rights only started when he was no longer freindly to americans. American govt did not care what he did when he was a mate. So the point taht america cares about human rights or invades to help people is simply not true. I dont know why all you guys are so far off post. Back to 9/11 its unlikely any govt or agency will kill its own peeople in this manner.

 

[Soumitra]

Newly released tapes reveal full 9/11 air horror

NEW YORK: Recordings of the full exchanges between ground control, pilots and military authorities during the terrifying chaos of the 9/11 hijackings were made public for the first time on Thursday.

While portions of the audio recordings have circulated before, the document published by the Rutgers Law Review allows an unprecedented blow-by-blow recreation of the brief period on September 11, 2001, when four airliners were hijacked and slammed into New York, the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field.

The raw recordings, released in the run-up to the 10-year anniversary of the tragedy, illustrate just how unprepared the United States was for the audacious terrorist plot, with controllers desperately trying to understand what had happened to the planes, where they were, and where they were going.

In one exchange, a controller at New York Center says, apparently incredulous, that there are reports of a fire at the World Trade Center. "And that's, ah, that's the area where we lost the airplane," the controller says.

At the same time, an unidentified pilot is asking over the airwaves: "Anybody know what that smoke is in lower Manhattan?"

At Boston Center control, a worker says: "We have, ah, a problem here, we have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New, New York and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there to help us out."

The answer, revealing the astonishment at what was happening, is: "Is, is this real world or exercise?"

The recordings, which also include tragic exchanges with flight attendants on doomed American Airlines Flight 11 about how two of their colleagues had been knifed and hijackers were in the cockpit, were first reported by The New York Times on Thursday.

The full Rutgers report and audio can be accessed at: http://www.rutgerslawreview.com/2011/a-new-type-of-war/

Newly released tapes reveal full 9/11 air horror - The Times of India

 

[somebozo]

it looks like 9/11 was the blow of doom for the American empire

10 years, 21,000 bone fragments, no 9/11 closure
By CRISTIAN SALAZAR | AP


Published: Sep 8, 2011 20:07 Updated: Sep 8, 2011 20:07

NEW YORK: His family has his spare firefighter uniform, but not the one he wore on 9/11 — or any other trace of him. Killed at the World Trade Center, 32-year-old Scott Kopytko’s remains were never recovered — a painful legacy of grief for families looking for answers, closure or final confirmation that their loved one was actually a 9/11 victim.


“Very painful and very hurt” is how Russell Mercer, Kopytko’s stepfather, describes it. “And mistrusting of everybody.”

Numbers tell the story in the decade of search and recovery of the remains of Sept. 11 victims — a massive forensic investigation marked by a Supreme Court appeal of families who wanted a more thorough search, and discoveries years after the attacks of even more remains in manholes and on rooftops around ground zero.

— Tens of millions have been spent, including on the painstaking extraction of DNA from tiny bone fragments, using technology refined from a decade ago.

— Of 21,000 remains that have been recovered, nearly 9,000 are unidentified, because of the degraded condition they were found in. More than 1,100 victims have no identifiable remains.

— And the pace of the process is telling — in five years, only 26 new identifications. Ernest James, a 40-year-old man who worked in the trade center’s north tower, was the last identification, in late August.

“I can’t give a time frame of when an identification is going to be made, if at all,” said Mark Desire, who heads the World Trade Center identification unit for the city medical examiner’s office. “But we are working nonstop.”

Five scientists work seven days a week trying to make new identifications at a lab in an ultra-modern building on the east side of Manhattan. The unidentified remains are stored in climate-controlled conditions under a white tent blocks from the medical examiner’s office. About 400 bone fragments are looked at and analyzed every month.

DNA analysis is done by comparing the remains’ genetic profile to DNA found from victims’ possessions, like toothbrushes; from relatives; or from previously identified remains.

The fragments are examined, cleaned, and pulverized into powder to extract tell-tale genetic traces — a process that can take up to a week before an identification is made. Most of the DNA profiles generated belong to previously identified victims.

When an identification is made, the remains are returned to the family. Sometimes, nothing survives the DNA testing. Relatives might only receive the packaging where the remains had been stored.

Desire, assistant director of forensic biology for the medical examiner’s office, says the office won’t give up.

“The dedication of this team ... is as strong as it was 10 years ago,” he said in a recent interview.

But the extended search baffles family members like Mercer.

“You can find DNA from the Civil War, World War I and World War II,” he said. “But you can’t find DNA from first responders or civilians?“

The struggle to identify the 9/11 dead began almost immediately after the attacks in New York City, the Pentagon, and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where one of the hijacked planes crashed in the woods and plains before reaching its intended target. Forensic teams at the three sites were faced with challenges in identifying victims and the hijackers — some of whose remains are now in the custody of the FBI.

In Pennsylvania, the heat caused by the high-speed crash into a field caused 92 percent of the human remains to vaporize, leaving very little to work with, said Wallace Miller, the county corner who helped to identify the victims. DNA was used to make matches to the 40 victims, plus four sets of remains from the terrorists. To this day, remains are still embedded in the field where the flight went down.

Most of the 184 victims at the Pentagon also were identified using DNA. All but five — where there was not enough material to analyze — were identified, said Paul Stone, spokesman for the US Armed Forces Medical Examiner System.

But nowhere was the forensic detective work as demanding and daunting than at the 16-acre World Trade Center site, where the giant towers collapsed onto the rest of the complex, breaking everything into pieces.

Few full bodies were recovered at all. Then, heat, moisture, bacteria and chemicals like jet fuel combined to thwart the detective work of forensic scientists. Some remains were so badly burned or contaminated that DNA could not be analyzed.

By April 2005, the city’s chief medical examiner, Charles Hirsch, told families his office would be suspending identification efforts because it had “exhausted the limits of current DNA technology.”

Identifications restarted in 2006 amid the discovery of dozens of bone fragments of a 9/11 victim in a manhole renewed a search that found nearly 2,000 new fragments on rooftops and under a trade center road. The latest search ended last year.

Body parts were also recovered at a former landfill in Staten Island, where debris from the site was transferred. In 2008, a judge rejected a lawsuit brought by several families of Sept. 11 victims who sought to move the debris to a plot of land that could be transformed into a cemetery.

What to do with the remains that have been recovered also has stirred up anguish for some families.

As an above-ground memorial to the victims nears opening, some renewed objections to a plan to store the unidentified remains behind a subterranean wall at the National September 11 Memorial & Museum. The museum is to open next year.

“It’s horrendous ... that families have to rub shoulders with thousands to go see the remains,” said Rosemary Cain, who lost her 35-year-old firefighter son, George, on 9/11.

Some of his remains have been returned to her, but she said it was important for the unidentified to have a proper burial place.

“They are precious, sacred remains of our loved ones,” she said.

The memorial foundation and several other family members have said they agreed to the arrangement years ago. There will also be a private room adjacent to the repository set aside for families.

Monica Iken said it would be a place where she could go to mourn her husband, Michael, who died in the trade center’s south tower; she has no remains.

“I can go to honor him where he took his last step, his last breath,” she said.

The failure to identify so many victims has affected the final victims’ count over the years The city’s list of the dead — often with multiple missing persons’ reports of the same people — peaked at nearly 7,000 in the months after the attacks, but dropped to 2,752 by the fall of 2002.

Three more names were removed in 2004 after investigators failed to track them to the trade center; including Sneha Anne Philip, a Manhattan doctor who was last seen Sept. 10, 2001, at a department store across from the twin towers. Her name was added back to the death toll in 2008 after her family argued in court that there was no other place she could have been.

And the mystery of who died in the trade center hasn’t yet been solved by science.

Twenty-seven profiles DNA generated so far don’t match any of the approximately 17,000 genetic reference materials that were collected. Scientists aren’t sure who they are.

“It’s an open investigation,” said Desire. “There may be some victims where there are no bone fragments. And they are never going to be identified.”


© 2010 Arab News

 

[amalakas]

So did most of the ME. And Iraq's chemical weapons had Egyptian origins...

Chemical weapon proliferation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we kind had this discussion before about afganistan.

I suppose the question for the US is, has the US made its self criticism?

 

[A1Kaid]

And you are just trying to be a good muslim working hard but in vain to extricate his religion from one of the most spectacular terrorist act in modern history.

Do YOU have any experience in explosives? If not it is amusing to see how it was so 'obvious' to a layman like you that there were 'controlled demolitions' but not so obvious to those in the business. We who exercise critical thinking skills can only wonder why.

In the end, regardless what the prosecutor (you) or the defendant (US) may say, what matter are the physical evidences and to date nothing has been proven to be valid in the loony conspiracy theories believers camp.

Nothing to say about the FBI's lack of action pre-9/11? No rebuttal you can muster? FBI has authority to operate inside US they especially are good at cooperation with local law enforcement.

Do YOU have any experience in explosives? If not it is amusing to see how it was so 'obvious' to a layman like you that there were 'controlled demolitions' but not so obvious to those in the business. We who exercise critical thinking skills can only wonder why.

I haven't mentioned anything about explosives yet. Maybe you should read better and stay on track with the points being made. What I have argued is US security agencies did not take action against the 9/11 hijackers even when they were on US soil. Allowing the attacks to take place. Even after repeated warnings from foreign IA's about the potential for an attack. Overall, 9/11 is a false flag attack.

Do YOU have any experience in explosives?

Many architects and engineers have weighed in on 9/11 and have published their findings with contradict and debunk the official story. Many have concluded that explosives were used in the Twin Towers and other suspicious activities.

Here for example. Explosive Residues: Energetic Materials and the World Trade Center Destruction

 

[lem34]

I do not aprove of the american govt as many of you guys by now realise. but guys i cant imagine any political leader would approve an attack of this magnitude on their own citizens. Not only that think of the logistics involved. how many people would be in the loop. someone in the chain would speak up or even after doing it how sould you guarantee secrecy. Lets knock the american govt where we believe they are wrong but supporting way out fantasies only serves to ridicule us when we make allegations where we have evidence. Also I know there are not many americans on the forum but can you imagine how we would feel if we were the victims and someone pointed to us carrying out the atrocities.Gambit doesnt count btw insult him all you want but lets not believe that the twin towers was anything other than a tragedy carried out by evildoers. Remember muslims died too.