Qatar: Talks with Pakistan over Mirage 2000-5s

[Paksanity]

PAF failures
Tiger hill bombing
Atlantique shoot down
USNS attack in abbotabad
USAF drone strikes every week big slaps toPAF

Tiger Hill is on Indian side. How is it PAF's failure?

Atlantique was being flown by PN over an area far from any PAF base active at that time. You should ask Navy. Contrary to your beliefs, PAF aircraft do not have the capability to teleport especially if Navy hasn't asked for air cover at first place.

US raid came in stealth helicopters. No country has a precise ability to counter US advances in stealth. Their flights take place over Russia, China, Iran and North Korea routinely and there isn't a thing these countries can do.

PAF can easily bring down drones. It's a political decision. Politicians and the nation is not ready to face what comes after the shooting.

Than if you decide jets defending you nation on maintenance and ifastructure than why A buy F 16 we can get P 50 mustang of WW 2 it take less maintenance than F 16

P-50 would be harder on maintenance than F-16s. It's production is shut and no one makes its replacement parts. P-50 would just sit on ground just like any other aircraft we can't make fly worthy.

Don't tell me that shit again infrastructure logistics your prime objective is to defending country

You can't defend the country without infrastructure and logistics. Read Napoleon's and Hitler's campaigns into Russia and you will know the importance of logistics.

If Egypt can maintain

F 16
Mirage 2000
MIG 35
Rafale
Mirage 3
Mirage v
MIG 21

Than why the hell PAF dont

Because someone else pays Egypt's bill. Because PAF's budget is hardly enough to keep current fleet flying. Show me a budget allocation for PAF procurement?

Don't give justification of Bugatti here yes if Bugatti gives me power punch against aggressor I will buy it to beat my opponent a car which can give a chance to fight

I won't buy corolla car against opponents Lamborghini aventador. And loose miserable

Your Bugatti will never leave the garage because you are not left with any money to buy fuel for her.

What is a use of all these infrastructure and maintenance which will make me end up loosing miserable defeat

Because this gives you a fighting chance in a full scale war. Other options don't.

 

[Darth Vader]

Whats Up With People Going Nuts On Pakistan Buying Used French ?
1 is that authentic news , last time Pakistan bought used birds from friendly country there were no news about it
and source is kinda ehhhh

2 Now as For People Saying Since Pakistan had old mirages v series birds so They Will already know the the mirage 2000s
last time i checked these were different birds and i really dont see Paf joining crazy for french after the thunder and other deals as for Pakistan already have the know how ? its a totally different bird If pilots flew f 16 they wont be able to f 22
and yes it is a delta wing bird but its different than Mirage series which Pakistan holds in many ways

3 Pakistan going for mirage is same as pakistan buying Russian jets or going for a different platform instead of thunder and f16 i really dont see any point in going for 12 birds and if Pakistan plans to acquire 60 Birds old birds than yes it could fill the short gap but it wont be worth it Better to get any modern chinese jet , yes they have few faults of there own but in long term they will make more sense according to current situation.

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

spending on old mirages will be good if they will be converted into drones without pilots loaded with Hatf Missiles to target deep inside india during war.

 

[Super Falcon]

Whats Up With People Going Nuts On Pakistan Buying Used French ?
1 is that authentic news , last time Pakistan bought used birds from friendly country there were no news about it
and source is kinda ehhhh

2 Now as For People Saying Since Pakistan had old mirages v series birds so They Will already know the the mirage 2000s
last time i checked these were different birds and i really dont see Paf joining crazy for french after the thunder and other deals as for Pakistan already have the know how ? its a totally different bird If pilots flew f 16 they wont be able to f 22
and yes it is a delta wing bird but its different than Mirage series which Pakistan holds in many ways

3 Pakistan going for mirage is same as pakistan buying Russian jets or going for a different platform instead of thunder and f16 i really dont see any point in going for 12 birds and if Pakistan plans to acquire 60 Birds old birds than yes it could fill the short gap but it wont be worth it Better to get any modern chinese jet , yes they have few faults of there own but in long term they will make more sense according to current situation.

Sorry to say if you can't handle stealth helicopters once they attacked and every one knew where were PAF at time of attack conducted in abbotabad

If Atlantique turbine engine can fly that far why can't JET engine get don't tell me that rubbish again

If Atlantique get of from mehrbani base why can't PAF jets gave it cover by Manipur base Mani pur is even closer where pn Atlantique shutdown and in front of fighter jet this might be 5 minute ride to get to Atlantique

In war there are no borders if you cannot give cover to your forces than I'm sorry it was not because it was in India it was because we lacked BVR capabilities which IAF had this is why we lost if we had good planners thinkers we had BVR at that time it shows how stupid they are they get paid well by pakistan not to give justification but do the job done


PAF is failed us don't give justification of stealth halos it is their job to counter enemies capabilities which they have failed all the time

Accepting failure means you are going to do better

But keep justifying ifs and buts you will remain all the time at loosing end

Fact is Pakistan lacks long range high altitude air defence yet PAF do nothing to buy one for last 65 years and we lack air superiority jet but we are justifying to buy jets of similar capability

In war time you need different types of weapons to counter enemy steps

spending on old mirages will be good if they will be converted into drones without pilots loaded with Hatf Missiles to target deep inside india during war.

Buying mirage 30 mill converting to drones 20 mill more 50 mill each jet useless deal

You should be given a model of einstein

Tiger Hill is on Indian side. How is it PAF's failure?

Atlantique was being flown by PN over an area far from any PAF base active at that time. You should ask Navy. Contrary to your beliefs, PAF aircraft do not have the capability to teleport especially if Navy hasn't asked for air cover at first place.

US raid came in stealth helicopters. No country has a precise ability to counter US advances in stealth. Their flights take place over Russia, China, Iran and North Korea routinely and there isn't a thing these countries can do.

PAF can easily bring down drones. It's a political decision. Politicians and the nation is not ready to face what comes after the shooting.



P-50 would be harder on maintenance than F-16s. It's production is shut and no one makes its replacement parts. P-50 would just sit on ground just like any other aircraft we can't make fly worthy.



You can't defend the country without infrastructure and logistics. Read Napoleon's and Hitler's campaigns into Russia and you will know the importance of logistics.



Because someone else pays Egypt's bill. Because PAF's budget is hardly enough to keep current fleet flying. Show me a budget allocation for PAF procurement?



Your Bugatti will never leave the garage because you are not left with any money to buy fuel for her.



Because this gives you a fighting chance in a full scale war. Other options don't.

And for Bugatti I'm not that stupid to not leave money for fuel

Top of it if I can manage to buy Bugatti than why can't fuel it shows how. Narrow minded you are typical Pakistani thinking no matter how good Nissan and other cars are but ma tu corolla hi lessa

Whats Up With People Going Nuts On Pakistan Buying Used French ?
1 is that authentic news , last time Pakistan bought used birds from friendly country there were no news about it
and source is kinda ehhhh

2 Now as For People Saying Since Pakistan had old mirages v series birds so They Will already know the the mirage 2000s
last time i checked these were different birds and i really dont see Paf joining crazy for french after the thunder and other deals as for Pakistan already have the know how ? its a totally different bird If pilots flew f 16 they wont be able to f 22
and yes it is a delta wing bird but its different than Mirage series which Pakistan holds in many ways

3 Pakistan going for mirage is same as pakistan buying Russian jets or going for a different platform instead of thunder and f16 i really dont see any point in going for 12 birds and if Pakistan plans to acquire 60 Birds old birds than yes it could fill the short gap but it wont be worth it Better to get any modern chinese jet , yes they have few faults of there own but in long term they will make more sense according to current situation.

Finally a logical reply by someone

Please put some brains on these jokers bro

View attachment 320368

I wish All of them Parked at Sargodha Airbase...It will be wonderfull...

We will send you the bills of these so ur wish completes

you can, it will just cost higher per unit

Nothing expansive than my land Pakistan if these birds can safeguard my land I buy them important is Pak saving our land so don't think like Memon

 

[X-2.]

Everyone is good at drawing room talk. Talk sensible and " PRACTICAL ".

We are always going to look for a convenient and readly available option rather than waste billions on research and development for which neither do we have the funds nor the brainpower. We start something today after 50 years it will be ready. And the world altogether would have jumped in to a new era.

The Indian "Tejas" is an example. Wasted billions on redundant 4th generation aircraft . Praising it as if it can fly at light speed. Even "Arjun" for that matter.

Kindly refrain from passing such remarks. Until or unless you know the actual ground situation

Exactly

 

[Paksanity]

And for Bugatti I'm not that stupid to not leave money for fuel

Top of it if I can manage to buy Bugatti than why can't fuel it shows how. Narrow minded you are typical Pakistani thinking no matter how good Nissan and other cars are but ma tu corolla hi lessa

You are suggesting exactly the opposite for PAF. If they don't have the money to pay for expensive maintenance and fuel of Bugatti, why would they buy it? It will just stand there and will be of no use.

Now please refer to budget documents and tell us how much is allocated to PAF.

 

[WhyCry]

Everyone is good at drawing room talk. Talk sensible and " PRACTICAL ".

We are always going to look for a convenient and readly available option rather than waste billions on research and development for which neither do we have the funds nor the brainpower. We start something today after 50 years it will be ready. And the world altogether would have jumped in to a new era.

The Indian "Tejas" is an example. Wasted billions on redundant 4th generation aircraft . Praising it as if it can fly at light speed. Even "Arjun" for that matter.

Kindly refrain from passing such remarks. Until or unless you know the actual ground situation

Not that i totally agree with the user you are replying but you used examples to justify pakisans inefficiency and your inferiority complex. I would had used jf17 as example as example since tejas even if not mass produced is destined for sucess. There are other forums for that comparision or discussion. Arjun had major issues with its defensive protection for its failure. It needs a lot of work and could be a failure. Pakistan cannot have a failure but india can. The major difference

 

[Paksanity]

If Atlantique turbine engine can fly that far why can't JET engine get don't tell me that rubbish again

If Atlantique get of from mehrbani base why can't PAF jets gave it cover by Manipur base Mani pur is even closer where pn Atlantique shutdown and in front of fighter jet this might be 5 minute ride to get to Atlantique

Please read about what an aircraft can and can not do. Magic is not taught and practiced in PAF. Perhaps Hogwarts is where we should train our air force.

PAF is failed us don't give justification of stealth halos it is their job to counter enemies capabilities which they have failed all the time

Again, Hogwarts is the answer to our woes.

 

[Super Falcon]

You are suggesting exactly the opposite for PAF. If they don't have the money to pay for expensive maintenance and fuel of Bugatti, why would they buy it? It will just stand there and will be of no use.

Now please refer to budget documents and tell us how much is allocated to PAF.

Again same thing if buying 10 mirages money can be used to buy 5 SU 35 is better option build on it yearly and I'm sure PAF has fuel to fly them flying 10 mirages fuel is equal to fly 5 SU 35 use some sense

I buy better capable jet

Quality over quantity keep it in your mind

 

[jupiter2007]

http://www.pac.org.pk/mrf

Mirage-2000-5 are still a good option to replace older Mirage and F-7s. Pakistan has to Mirage Rebuild factory and they can easily repair/upgrade, overhaul engine or do preventive maintenance on these without having to spend money on facility, training, etc.
PAF will have to build this kind of facility if they decide to induct a new platform like SU-35, J-31 or J-10C.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sorry to say if you can't handle stealth helicopters once they attacked and every one knew where were PAF at time of attack conducted in abbotabad

If Atlantique turbine engine can fly that far why can't JET engine get don't tell me that rubbish again

If Atlantique get of from mehrbani base why can't PAF jets gave it cover by Manipur base Mani pur is even closer where pn Atlantique shutdown and in front of fighter jet this might be 5 minute ride to get to Atlantique

In war there are no borders if you cannot give cover to your forces than I'm sorry it was not because it was in India it was because we lacked BVR capabilities which IAF had this is why we lost if we had good planners thinkers we had BVR at that time it shows how stupid they are they get paid well by pakistan not to give justification but do the job done


PAF is failed us don't give justification of stealth halos it is their job to counter enemies capabilities which they have failed all the time

Accepting failure means you are going to do better

But keep justifying ifs and buts you will remain all the time at loosing end

Fact is Pakistan lacks long range high altitude air defence yet PAF do nothing to buy one for last 65 years and we lack air superiority jet but we are justifying to buy jets of similar capability

In war time you need different types of weapons to counter enemy steps

Hi,

Abbotabad strike was with the permission of Gen Kiyani---.

As for the Atlantique---Paf never believed in " I am my brothers keeper "---. For Paf---they were the gods---and everyone else beneath them.

They deceived the navy in 1971---they deceived the army in 1971---and at Kargil---and they have not changed.

Paf knew that the Atlantique was flying out---and they knew that the iaf was in the air---yet---they did not send someone on their own to protect the brother---.

Just to fly behind it or in the vicinity to keep an eye---but know---they said---we had warned the navy and that was it---our duty is done.

Someone in the paf should have faced a court martial and a firing squad for that---.

 

[war&peace]

Paf knew that the Atlantique was flying out---and they knew that the iaf was in the air---yet---they did not send someone on their own to protect the brother---.

Just to fly behind it or in the vicinity to keep an eye---but know---they said---we had warned the navy and that was it---our duty is done.

That's an interesting info...a surveillance should always be protected and escorted by some fighters especially if that's flying closer to the border.

 

[MastanKhan]

That's an interesting info...a surveillance should always be protected and escorted by some fighters especially if that's flying closer to the border.

Thank you---and yet our gods on earth let the lower class navy fly itself into the doom of death---39 officers murdered by pakistan air force due to negligence---.

 

[The SC]

36 FC-20 for 1.4 billion USD makes 38 million USD a piece.

Considering 400 Million for 18 Mirage2K, makes 22 million USD a piece. Correct me if im wrong as im not good with million and billion figures.

FC-20 price can be justified. Both are delta and assuming that simulators and other facilities will cost the same for both aircraft, Mirage2K downsides are as follows:

1.Cost will go up because its engine overhaul and air frame upgrade will come quicker, as its lived half its life.This also means it will be retired early.
2. Its owned by the IAF already who knows its strengths and weaknesses, where as J-10 capabilities can be speculated only by IAF, so it can pull up surprises in combat.
3. AESA has more probability in FC-20 than Mirage2K.
4. 9 hard points compared to 11 of FC-20.
5. On supposition that more than 12 M2K will be required, PAF will need to wait for other AirForces to retire their M2K, whereas in FC-20 case, PAF can order spare aircrafts with initial order.
6. Newer generation weapons like PL-10 can be integrated easily on FC-20 while MBDA Meteor for Mirage2K is not probable.
7. If larger numbers of Mirage2K are procured, PAF will face same problem someday in future to replace M2k's like the one its facing now to replace Mirage III and Mirage V, whereas FC-20 will be replaced much later than Mirage2K if its procured as its newer and will have more life of air frame and engine

Upside of M2K:
1. Acquisition Cost obviously
2. Weapons package will introduce MICA/APACHE etc.

Still, 22 million $ each mirage 2k-9 with weapons and spare parts is more than a bargain.._hope they will be 24 plus the 12 Qatari 2k-5s, it will make 2 squadrons of very good fighters, the 2k-9s have some electronics in common with the Rafale..This is the max price, it may be lower! let's say between 300 ad 400 $ million for 18 or 500$ million for 24 2k-9, the same price will buy you between 7 and 12 J-20s which is also good, considering the AESA radar, IRST and the new frame.. plus weapons, it may go up to 50$ million each..
The main thing to remember here is that Pakistan is looking for a good bargain in both price and capabilities, and by the way, India does not have the 2k-9 so it does not know much about it, they know probably more on the Qatari 2k-5 because they even have some defense agreement with Qatar..

 

[war&peace]

Thank you---and yet our gods on earth let the lower class navy fly itself into the doom of death---39 officers murdered by pakistan air force due to negligence---.

But sir that was really an expensive and advanced A/C and USA did not provide that to many countries