Putin could invade Ukraine within a week, Nato chief warns

[vostok]

Not at all! Indeed, U.S. President George Bush tried to discourage it. The Ukrainians told him to f--k off. Remember, even the Soviets acknowledged that Ukraine was distinct from Russia; that's why Ukraine had its own delegate to the United Nations, separate from the U.S.S.R., from the very first days of the organization.

Pissing off your fellow Slavs is going to lead to trouble, Vostok. "Brotherly" love only goes so far: their feelings towards "Great Russians" will change from endearing to resent and hatred.

Your Ukrainian brothers feel betrayed. They want their brothers to withdraw. It will then be chalked up to confusion, so peaceful and unmolested withdrawal will be seen as the restoration of brotherly relations.

Don't even think of continuing the invasion. Unilaterally return the seized ships and military bases to Ukrainian control as a sign of goodwill. Progress can continue forward from there. Russia, not Europe, holds the keys to Ukraine's economy; give the country a little time to itself and it will return of its own accord to Russia's orbit.

Stalin insisted that Ukraine and Belarus had own representatives office in UN organization to have more weight. And because it is Ukraine and Belarus suffered from Nazism most.
Ukraine was called "Little Russia" before 1917. And the south and east of modern Ukraine - were called "New Russia" .
You must understand that the majority of Ukraine's population identifies itself primarily with Russia , and in the second - with Ukraine. So for us, the Russian army - this is our army, it is much closer to us than the army of "independent" Ukraine , which command by puppets of the West.
Russia = USSR = Russian Empire = Russian realm = Moscow principality = principality of Kiev . More than a thousand years of history, the greatest victories , grave Mongol yoke , Gagarin, Tolstoy , Mendeleev , Stalin and other greats .
Ukraine = twenty years of shame , humiliation , confusion , frustration, poverty.
We want to live in a united Russia and not the ruins of the empire. Therefore, in the Crimea soldiers do not listen orders of illegal Kievan Junta . In southern and eastern Ukraine we also will not obey.
Russia - our MOTHERLAND . Russia - our tender and loving mother, white-haired blue-eyed beauty . And Ukraine - fat, drunk stepmother with mustache on her face and swastika on her shoulder. She does not like us and will never love . She can love only Nazis from western Ukraine . Therefore our roads devides. If the West will not interfere with us then we split up peacefully , as the Czechoslovakia did. And if the West intervenes, it will be Yugoslav scenario (I pray God it will not happen).

 

[Parul]

Nothing more than scaremongering.

 

[Solomon2]

You must understand that the majority of Ukraine's population identifies itself primarily with Russia -

Or else.

We want to live in a united Russia and not the ruins of the empire.

Therefore, in the Crimea soldiers do not listen orders of illegal Kievan Junta . In southern and eastern Ukraine we also will not obey...Russia - our MOTHERLAND . Russia - our tender and loving mother, white-haired blue-eyed beauty -

Yes, your soldiers are counter-revolutionary Whites. Nuremburg established that soldiers are responsible for obeying international law, and the treaties Russia signed forbade Russian soldiers from invading Ukraine or interfering with its politics, in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons, and the U.N. Charter forbids Russia from entering campaigns of conquest against foreign countries - which is what Ukraine is recognized as.

Your intriguing suggestion that Ukrainians and Russians are one suggests that Putin invaded Crimea because he's afraid that Kiev would soon be seen as a desirable alternative to Moscow by most Russians - and that most Russians want the same things Ukrainians want, less tyrannical interference in their affairs.

Choose wisely, Vostok.

 

[vostok]

Or else.



Yes, your soldiers are counter-revolutionary Whites. Nuremburg established that soldiers are responsible for obeying international law, and the treaties Russia signed forbade Russian soldiers from invading Ukraine or interfering with its politics, in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons, and the U.N. Charter forbids Russia from entering campaigns of conquest against foreign countries - which is what Ukraine is recognized as.

Your intriguing suggestion that Ukrainians and Russians are one suggests that Putin invaded Crimea because he's afraid that Kiev would soon be seen as a desirable alternative to Moscow by most Russians - and that most Russians want the same things Ukrainians want, less tyrannical interference in their affairs.

Choose wisely, Vostok.

What Nuremberg? What Whites? What are you talking about?
If yoy means Budapest Treaty - so it was not ratified by any of the countries. It firstly. Second - after the West began the expansion of NATO - all arrangements are no longer valid, as to believe your promises is nonsense.
USSR was divided illegally . Naturally, the " international community " (West) happily accepted the illegal dissolution of the USSR .
And natural and legitimate aspirations of the peoples of the former USSR to reunite the revival of a single state - this is for some reason you do not recognize . Your Hillary Clinton even promised to slow down or even prevent this process. Vain. Russia still reunite .
The border between Russia and Ukraine - the same as the border between West and East Germany . It should not be , because the Ukrainians - part of the Russian people, as Siberians or the Urals . So it is silly to require residents of Ukraine obedience to orders of criminal - fascist group that seized power in Kiev .

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What Nuremberg? What Whites? What are you talking about?
If yoy means Budapest Treaty - so it was not ratified by any of the countries. It firstly. Second - after the West began the expansion of NATO - all arrangements are no longer valid, as to believe your promises is nonsense.
USSR was divided illegally . Naturally, the " international community " (West) happily accepted the illegal dissolution of the USSR .
And natural and legitimate aspirations of the peoples of the former USSR to reunite the revival of a single state - this is for some reason you do not recognize . Your Hillary Clinton even promised to slow down or even prevent this process. Vain. Russia still reunite .
The border between Russia and Ukraine - the same as the border between West and East Germany . It should not be , because the Ukrainians - part of the Russian people, as Siberians or the Urals . So it is silly to require residents of Ukraine obedience to orders of criminal - fascist group that seized power in Kiev .

If USSR was divided illegally, then Russia in itself is illegal, right ?
Should not be able to particpate in international organisations etc.
Thrown out of the Security Council.
Logical conclusion of your argument. You may want to reconsider.

 

[vostok]

If USSR was divided illegally, then Russia in itself is illegal, right ?
Should not be able to particpate in international organisations etc.
Thrown out of the Security Council.
Logical conclusion of your argument. You may want to reconsider.

Yes, you're right. First we need to restore the unity of the peoples of the Soviet Union, and only then will participate in all kinds of organizations. I do not mean that the new Union should be called "USSR". "Eurasian Union" in the current circumstances would be more appropriate.

 

[Irajgholi]

Yes, you're right. First we need to restore the unity of the peoples of the Soviet Union, and only then will participate in all kinds of organizations. I do not mean that the new Union should be called "USSR". "Eurasian Union" in the current circumstances would be more appropriate.

how do you feel about betraying your country? ukraine, or shall i say russia? i remember you were very enthusiastic about ripping the country in half.

 

[vostok]

how do you feel about betraying your country? ukraine, or shall i say russia? i remember you were very enthusiastic about ripping the country in half.

They betrayed my country and divided it in the 1991. And I and millions of others just craving for reunification.

 

[Irajgholi]

They betrayed my country and divided it in the 1991. And I and millions of others just craving for reunification.

russians move ppl of russian ethinicity into ukraine, and separate tartar turks from their homeland @rmi5 and now russians claiming ukraine as their own, its like saying that i migrated to usa and then after several generations my grandchildren claim usa as a part of iran, do you know how illogical that is?

 

[Tshering22]

russians move ppl of russian ethinicity into ukraine, and separate tartar turks from their homeland @rmi5 and now russians claiming ukraine as their own, its like saying that i migrated to usa and then after several generations my grandchildren claim usa as a part of iran, do you know how illogical that is?

I agree with you. But US and Iran are totally two different entities compared to Ukraine and Russia. They both have been one country for centuries and only now parted. The whole foundation of Russia began with the Kievan Rus and slowly expanded east and westwards.

Therefore US and Iran logic won't apply.

Stalin insisted that Ukraine and Belarus had own representatives office in UN organization to have more weight. And because it is Ukraine and Belarus suffered from Nazism most.
Ukraine was called "Little Russia" before 1917. And the south and east of modern Ukraine - were called "New Russia" .
You must understand that the majority of Ukraine's population identifies itself primarily with Russia , and in the second - with Ukraine. So for us, the Russian army - this is our army, it is much closer to us than the army of "independent" Ukraine , which command by puppets of the West.
Russia = USSR = Russian Empire = Russian realm = Moscow principality = principality of Kiev . More than a thousand years of history, the greatest victories , grave Mongol yoke , Gagarin, Tolstoy , Mendeleev , Stalin and other greats .
Ukraine = twenty years of shame , humiliation , confusion , frustration, poverty.
We want to live in a united Russia and not the ruins of the empire. Therefore, in the Crimea soldiers do not listen orders of illegal Kievan Junta . In southern and eastern Ukraine we also will not obey.
Russia - our MOTHERLAND . Russia - our tender and loving mother, white-haired blue-eyed beauty . And Ukraine - fat, drunk stepmother with mustache on her face and swastika on her shoulder. She does not like us and will never love . She can love only Nazis from western Ukraine . Therefore our roads devides. If the West will not interfere with us then we split up peacefully , as the Czechoslovakia did. And if the West intervenes, it will be Yugoslav scenario (I pray God it will not happen).

Eto trudno dlya zapadnykh stran, chtoby ponyat. Yesli vy obyasnite medlenno, oni poymut .

Yes, you're right. First we need to restore the unity of the peoples of the Soviet Union, and only then will participate in all kinds of organizations. I do not mean that the new Union should be called "USSR". "Eurasian Union" in the current circumstances would be more appropriate.

Why don't you open the Customs Union to all CIS countries? Let anyone wanting to become a member participate. That itself will lead to Eurasion Union.

 

[Irajgholi]

I agree with you. But US and Iran are totally two different entities compared to Ukraine and Russia. They both have been one country for centuries and only now parted. The whole foundation of Russia began with the Kievan Rus and slowly expanded east and westwards.
Therefore US and Iran logic won't apply.

i understand, but that was an extreme example. the reality is that ppl seek freedom, they want economic development, and they know that being with eu is the way to achieve that goal. russia is sitting on pretty much some of the bigger mineral, oil and gas reserves in the whole world, it has decent industrial infrastructure, talented population, yet the country is not in its proper global place, what does that tell you? that mr. putin gang is only thinking about suppressing its population and making money, russia is highly dependent on its oil and gas sales, it doesnt have a diverse economy and these r all qualities of a bad leadership.

 

[vostok]

russians move ppl of russian ethinicity into ukraine, and separate tartar turks from their homeland @rmi5 and now russians claiming ukraine as their own, its like saying that i migrated to usa and then after several generations my grandchildren claim usa as a part of iran, do you know how illogical that is?

So can say peson , unfamiliar with the realities of Ukraine. Ukraine as a state appeared in 1991 . Kiev - Mother of Russian cities , the first capital of Russia . In the 15th century the Poles captured Little Russia ( Ukraine was called Little Russia before 1917), and in the 17th century , Russia returned Little Russia . South and East of the present days Ukraine until 1917 was called New Russia . New Russian city was founded in the late 18th century my Empress Catherine the Great. In the cities of New Russian citizens moved from whole Russian Empire . So the South and East of Ukraine has never had anything to do with Little Russia nor Ukraine. Therefore, we wish to be reunited with the rest of Russia . And we do not want our children to violently forced to speak Ukrainian (although ukrainian language - only Russian dialect ).
So that you can understand our situation - imagine that a result of plot to power in Iran came traitors, agents of the West. And they divided Iran into provinces. Each province became independent. And the "world community" (West) instantly recognized all provinces as independent states. Will your wish for unification of Iran be betrayal?

 

[Tshering22]

i understand, but that was an extreme example. the reality is that ppl seek freedom, they want economic development, and they know that being with eu is the way to achieve that goal.

Mn dostam, look at the current situation. Southern Europe has almost drowned. Germany, France and UK are the only floating countries that are showing some resilience; Nordic countries which are a part of EU are immune due to their aloofness from global matters. Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Greece have all drowned despite having no conflicts or troubles. And now they are in an endless cycle of indebtedness to a monetary system that has succumbed to the artificial debt that was created for some other purpose but turned out to be something else.

Ukraine's economy was already in shambles with very few technical industries prospering like aviation, heavy machinery, fertilizers and some agriculture. They were not booming. But they were still independent from committing to a Union where they will be financially bound.

Ukraine had the choice of choosing either; its representative the president chose Russia. NATO didn't like that so it funded a coup and kicked out a democratically elected president. These guys stand for democracy right? So why remove a democratically elected leader? Remember the 50s of your homeland Iran? Similar case, isn't it?

What happened in Ukraine was not Russia's fault at all. They simply secured their military interests in response to an un-constitutional coup attempt in the country by shadow-funded agencies abroad.

russia is sitting on pretty much some of the bigger mineral, oil and gas reserves in the whole world, it has decent industrial infrastructure, talented population, yet the country is not in its proper global place, what does that tell you? that mr. putin gang is only thinking about suppressing its population and making money, russia is highly dependent on its oil and gas sales, it doesnt have a diverse economy and these r all qualities of a bad leadership.

Russia is one of the five largest growing countries in the world BRICS. It is immune to sanctions to the extent that west would like to do damage; something even the American population does not approve in my many personal interactions. With countries booming in the east, Russia is save from any major dips in oil or gas demand. China, us, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam etc are all growing countries and we need energy.

Instead of global support, especially after the Syrian debacle and the whole spying fiasco with Germany and Brazil, the NATO led countries have only tarnished their reputation and lost respect among what could have been their potential allies. Even Brazil and South Africa who are usually Western-oriented, supported Putin's stand.

 

[vostok]

Eto trudno dlya zapadnykh stran, chtoby ponyat. Yesli vy obyasnite medlenno, oni poymut .



Why don't you open the Customs Union to all CIS countries? Let anyone wanting to become a member participate. That itself will lead to Eurasion Union.

Customs Union is open to all. But from the West comes powerful opposition. The stronger Western influence in the country - the harder people join the Customs Union. But we will fix it.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yes, you're right. First we need to restore the unity of the peoples of the Soviet Union, and only then will participate in all kinds of organizations. I do not mean that the new Union should be called "USSR". "Eurasian Union" in the current circumstances would be more appropriate.

And who is "we"?
You claim that Russia is not a legal entity.
It cannot cannot assume it is USSR.
Logically, annexing Crimea to Russia is then illegal.

The USSR can of course convene new meetings, but I doubt that anyone but Russia would attend such meetings.
Maybe if only Russia attended, it could make decisions, but most organisations require a minimum attendance.
The last head of the Soviet Union was Gorbachev, and he is not going to be a player.

Any attempts by Russia to take other "illegal" countries will be condemned by the Security Council,
and cannot be vetoed by Russia since it is not a member of the Security Council.
Russia would be left in Limbo.

If Russia is legal, then Russia has acknowledge Ukraine as a Sate, and that
cannot be reversed. The legality of any government in Ukraine is then non of Russias business.

Don't get me wrong, if Russians in Crimea (or Eastern Ukraine) want to join Russia,
this is possible, in the same way as Scotland has a referendum on secceeding from Great Britain.

Needs to be done in an acceptable way to both the Crimean people and to the Ukrainan people,
This means a political process involving a democratic debate.
Not the stupid move by Putin, which alienates a lot of people to Russia.

As for right wing AKA Nazis in Western Ukraine they never got a lot of votes in elections,
so situation should be improved after elections in May.
European governments has seen the deteriorating situation in Hungary,
and wants stricter rules on behaviour of members, making Nazi/Fascist
governments n impossibility, and discrimination of Russians in Ukraine
would not be acceptable as well.