Pure Hypocritical RAGE against Pakistan by Sen.Rob

[RayKalm]

You're not making anyone understand what you're 'stating' since your stating statements rather than arguments.

 

[SamantK]

You're not making anyone understand what you're 'stating' since your stating statements rather than arguments.

Dude, I explained and S-19 explained but the one who is oblivious of the arguments is you. Anyways best of luck for your ignorance..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

F16 is not a toy that anyone can buy from a shop. Russia sells India Su-30MKIs... With the money that pakistan bought its F 16s, it could have bought several times the quantity of top tier Russian planes.. But would Russia sell? Many countries wait for decades to get their F 16s.

The point is, you were of strategic interest to US. You did not sign NPT and violated the norms which led to sanctions, which you are terming as "robbed". You should read up NPT regulations. It is pakistan's foreign policy failure that it did not balance its foreign policy between US and Russia. Why do you blame US for your own failures?



You cannot deny them. Those absolutely blasted your pre-conception about "lier" and "stupid" US bringing democracy "forcefully".

Yes infact SU-27 and Mig-29 were offered to Pakistan in the past... and now even the RD-93s are russian.. even the AK series,RPGs etc produced in Pakistan are liscensed by russia... funny... its all money n diplomacy... if u have money automatically ur diplomacy is very good... diplomacy infact is the second name of money.

 

[RayKalm]

Dude, I explained and S-19 explained but the one who is oblivious of the arguments is you. Anyways best of luck for your ignorance..

You may think that if you like.

 

[KS]

US wouldn't have intervened if the matter only involved a territory that is recognised as a disputed zone by UN. Maybe Indira was on her own and her associates discouraged her.

Well the issue was the level of personal friendship between Yahya and Nixon and also Nixon [and Kissinger's] rage about Indira outwitting them completely on the Indo-Soviet Friendship Treaty. As much as Nixon liked Yahya, he hated Indira double that on a personal level and hence the warning to India.

USSR which stood by us in Dacca, also 'advocated' us not to invade West Pakistan and that was the reason why Indira could not order IA to cross the IB in the West.

 

[King Solomon]

Yes infact SU-27 and Mig-29 were offered to Pakistan in the past... and now even the RD-93s are russian.. even the AK series,RPGs etc produced in Pakistan are liscensed by russia... funny... its all money n diplomacy... if u have money automatically ur diplomacy is very good... diplomacy infact is the second name of money.

Mig 29, Su 27 offered to pakistan? I have not come across any Russian source for that news...

AK, RPG etc. cannot be compared to top tier hardwares. Our 2nd largest buyer is China - pakistan may have got some goodies from them.

 

[KS]

Yes infact SU-27 and Mig-29 were offered to Pakistan in the past... .

Can you tell me when was that ?

Regarding RD-93 they are downgraded version of the RD 33 Mk 3 we are making in the Koraput plant. Try getting Al 31 from them.

Regarding Ak and RPG even Somalis make that. Your point being ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mig 29, Su 27 offered to pakistan? I have not come across any Russian source for that news...

AK, RPG etc. cannot be compared to top tier hardwares. Our 2nd largest buyer is China - pakistan may have got some goodies from them.

Source: FlightGlobal

1994 | 2857 | Flight Archive

Official PAF history also covers it... infact russian and ukrainian su-27s were also evaluated by Pakistan.

 

[King Solomon]

Source: FlightGlobal

1994 | 2857 | Flight Archive

Official PAF history also covers it... infact russian and ukrainian su-27s were also evaluated by Pakistan.

I see. It looks odd to me because no Russian source ever covered such a major news as offering a country the fighters for sale. But even if that is true, it was in the 90s when Russia was in a financial crisis which is an exceptional circumstance. At present, Russia, in all probabilities, will not sell pakistan any advanced fighter jets because of its strategic relationship with India

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I see. It looks odd to me because no Russian source ever covered such a major news as offering a country the fighters for sale. But even if that is true, it was in the 90s when Russia was in a financial crisis which is an exceptional circumstance. At present, Russia, in all probabilities, will not sell pakistan any advanced fighter jets because of its strategic relationship with India

Might look odd to you but its well documented by western sources.........
Right now Pakistan is also in a economic crisses... yet we have access to a number of russian weaponary from second parties or countries "with russian permission" to be more precise... be it IL-78 tankers,CIWS for f-22p frigs,mi helis,rd-93,small weapons etc.... As i said economic bloom = good diplomacy.

 

[MilSpec]

^
This was in 94, Two years in reform of India and 4 years after collapse of USSR, in 1996, India ensured that Russians would remain alligned to India next 5 decades by heavy big ticket items.
And a decade later Indian Diplomatic muscle has grown leaps and bounds, it even ensured that the french didn't sell avionics package to PAF.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

^
This was in 94, Two years in reform of India and 4 years after collapse of USSR, in 1996, India ensured that Russians would remain alligned to India next 5 decades by heavy big ticket items.

India had been allied with USSR since the 50s maybe even before... as for 94.

And a decade later Indian Diplomatic muscle has grown leaps and bounds, it even ensured that the french didn't sell avionics package to PAF.

As i said MONEY = DIPLOMACY... Now tht the same FRENCH have their rafale tender by the virtue of the russian,european n american bid... and india drifting to the west for its market making russian weapon manufacturers angry... who knows what the future hold?

Also in my opinion i see a warmth in Pak-Russo relations aswell... Kayani in russia,putin in Pak... offering help with IP are good signs though...

Can you tell me when was that ?

Regarding RD-93 they are downgraded version of the RD 33 Mk 3 we are making in the Koraput plant. Try getting Al 31 from them.

Regarding Ak and RPG even Somalis make that. Your point being ?

Which engines are flyin J-11s and J-10B? im sure russian and now Chinese... both have been offered to PAF with russian powerplants.... though idk what plants will be installed on the ordered J-10Bs or FC-20s tht we will recieve in the very near future.

 

[MilSpec]

India had been allied with USSR since the 50s maybe even before... as for 94.

Comprehension? USSR collapsed in 1990, Russia was in disarray, and needed money, They looked at an option of selling jets to pakistan, India placed huge flanker order and ensured, those doors were closed for good

As i said MONEY = DIPLOMACY... Now tht the same FRENCH have their rafale tender by the virtue of the russian,european n american bid... and india drifting to the west for its market making russian weapon manufacturers angry... who knows what the future hold?

Nothing on Indian sector has changed except US realigning themselves with us, As far as Euro/french fighters and equipment, lets not forget the hunters,Jaguars, mirage 2000, canberras. We have fielded European hardware alongside soviet since last 6 decades, it's not a brand new phenomenon. As far as russians being angry, i am pretty sure the might be furious with 250 FGFA, 120 Super MKI, 63 Mig29SMT upgrade, 55 Mig 29K, 6 Shivalik Frigates, joint Brahmos, 2000 T90M's, INS Vikramaditya, Amur class subs, Nuke Subs, Heavy Lift Helo, BM30 Batteries.
I dont see them realigning themselves with pakistan anytime soon, especially with your economic woes.

Also in my opinion i see a warmth in Pak-Russo relations aswell... Kayani in russia,putin in Pak... offering help with IP are good signs though...

Sure, it's a good sign. I wonder if russia starts getting devlopment contracts in pakistan, what would be chinese reaction?

Which engines are flyin J-11s and J-10B? im sure russian and now Chinese... both have been offered to PAF with russian powerplants.... though idk what plants will be installed on the ordered J-10Bs or FC-20s tht we will recieve in the very near future.

buying an airframe from china and engines from russia seems a little odd.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Comprehension? USSR collapsed in 1990, Russia was in disarray, and needed money, They looked at an option of selling jets to pakistan, India placed huge flanker order and ensured, those doors were closed for good

As i said economic boom plays an important role.

Nothing on Indian sector has changed except US realigning themselves with us, As far as Euro/french fighters and equipment, lets not forget the hunters,Jaguars, mirage 2000, canberras. We have fielded European hardware alongside soviet since last 6 decades, it's not a brand new phenomenon. As far as russians being angry, i am pretty sure the might be furious with 250 FGFA, 120 Super MKI, 63 Mig29SMT upgrade, 55 Mig 29K, 6 Shivalik Frigates, joint Brahmos, 2000 T90M's, INS Vikramaditya, Amur class subs, Nuke Subs, Heavy Lift Helo, BM30 Batteries.
I dont see them realigning themselves with pakistan anytime soon, especially with your economic woes.

And those old hunters,canberas were also dwarffed by soviet made inventory? True i dnt suppose tht russia would start selling us migs or sus right now?

Sure, it's a good sign. I wonder if russia starts getting devlopment contracts in pakistan, what would be chinese reaction?

They infact encourage these developments... be it SHO member or any other event.

buying an airframe from china and engines from russia seems a little odd.

Not without russian acceptance.As in the case of RD powerplants,mi helos,il-78s etc!

 

[MilSpec]

^^ Russian low cost solutions did the same for us 4 decades ago what chinese hardware is doing for you now?