Punjabis ruling both India and Pakistan

[Proudpakistaniguy]

You're not answering my question, when did he claim to be punjabi first? I can't find anything on it. You are clearly making up stuff. I already know where he was born.

Mohammad Sharif ( father of nawaz) migrated from Amritsar(Indian punjab) during partition so their ancestors might have kahsmiri origin but they were settled in Punjab from generation, speak Punjabi and their lifestyle is Punjabi

 

[Finer]

The fact as per Sharif family, they say we are Originated from Kashmir, Nawaz has Kashmiri Origins, but for centuries they lived, bread, eat, looted and born in Punjab. Infact Nawaz was born in Lahore, and has said that am a Punjabi first, since all traditions, culture and land of 5 rivers to his family belong to is Punjabi and Punjab. He though acknowledges that his origins were from Kashmir. I actually class Nawaz as Punjabi-Kashmiri, just like Pashtun-Punjabi, or Sindhi Punjabi a very common way to call ones ethnicity and race with mix race, like Afro-American, British-Pakistani, like a British citizen but his Origins are from Pakistan. You know what I mean.

Our family bloodline is ethnic Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir. Punjabi replaced the dying language as our family migrated to the rest of Pakistan. People have false notion that people who speak punjabi are punjabi. It is just language that replaces another language. We are speaking english right now but that does not make us british english, does it?

But it is true Punjabi have great rich history. For starter, Azad Kashmir owes their freedom to the Pakistani army dominated by punjabis.

Even Pathans i know who migrated to punjabi region in Pakistan has adopted punjabi as their primary language. So Pashto is unheard in their family now. Things change in life.

 

[Kabira]

Have u heard of 'Jag Punjabi Jag' naara, Nawaz Shariff say Jag Punjabi Jag,

http://www.ndtv.com/people/nawaz-sharif-the-lion-of-punjab-roars-in-pakistan-521930

That is anti-military poem recited by Nooras, its old poem when military were doing their own thing in east Pakistan. I can't remember name of a poet. Looks like you can't find any source of Sharif saying he's punjabi first.

@save_ghenda, I am partially with you, where you are coming from, but this is not how Sharif, Nawaz, and con consider themselves as Kashmiri origin only, they rather associate themselves as Punjabis first, because of centuries year old Punjabi history and born in Punjab, including kids. Nawaz Sharif doesnot know Kashmiri language but he knows Punjabi fluently, Punjabi traditions Punjabi lifestyle etc.

Nawaz Sharif was born in Lahore, Punjab on 25 December 1949. The Sharif family are Punjabis of Kashmiri origin, as per link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawaz_Sharif

There is no "refugee" concept in Punjab (a difference), a big difference in Punjabi ethnic definition to others e.g. if some Pashtun or any other tribe from Sindh born and starts living in Lahore tomorrow he can be as much Punjabi as anyone else, provided he as Punjabi knowledge first, reading about Punjabi identity in detail might help. That is why Punjabis are first identified through the land, city in Punjab they are born in, identify themsleves to the land of 5 rivers, than the knowledge of Punjabi traditions, language, culture, social gathering.

First of all so far what we hear is that punjabis in Lahore make their kids speak only urdu. So how can people from other regions become punjabi after few years? If Nooras are punjabis then ask them to make punjabi official language of punjab. That way punjabi will be taught in schools and no longer considered language of illiterates. Punjabi isn't even allowed in punjab parliament.

 

[Asian.Century]

Punjabi Identity is not monolithic unlike others, and 130m People speak Punjabi, 10th largest language spoken in the whole world.

I am really sorry but the true answer is "You will never understand unless you are a Punjabi".

There is no "refugee" concept in Punjab (a difference), a big difference in Punjabi ethnic definition to others e.g. if some Pashtun or any other tribe from Sindh born and starts living in Lahore tomorrow he can be as much Punjabi as anyone else, provided he has, Punjabi knowledge first, reading about Punjabi identity in detail might help. That is why Punjabis are first identified through the land, or city in Punjab they are born in, identify themselves to the land of 5 rivers, in groups, than the knowledge of Punjabi traditions, language, culture, social gathering comes in.

 

[Kabira]

Punjabi Identity is not monolithic unlike others, and 130m People speak Punjabi, 10th largest language spoken in the whole world.

I am really sorry but the true answer is "You will never understand unless you are a Punjabi".

There is no "refugee" concept in Punjab (a difference), a big difference in Punjabi ethnic definition to others e.g. if some Pashtun or any other tribe from Sindh born and starts living in Lahore tomorrow he can be as much Punjabi as anyone else, provided he has, Punjabi knowledge first, reading about Punjabi identity in detail might help. That is why Punjabis are first identified through the land, or city in Punjab they are born in, identify themselves to the land of 5 rivers, in groups, than the knowledge of Punjabi traditions, language, culture, social gathering comes in.

This is all BS. Yes one can become punjabi culturally but after few hundred years living in rural areas. Those days are long gone, now living in Lahore will not make you culturally punjabi. Punjabi isn't even real identity, people always used to identify with their biraderi first. People don't really care about language in punjab. People will start to care about native languages in punjab when more provinces are made.

Butts are not considered foreigners to punjab, they speak punjabi etc My point was that Sharif never identified as punjabi first ever.

 

[Asian.Century]

This is all BS. Yes one can become punjabi culturally but after few hundred years living in rural areas. Those days are long gone, now living in Lahore will not make you culturally punjabi. Punjabi isn't even real identity, people always used to identify with their biraderi first. People don't really care about language in punjab. People will start to care about native languages in punjab when more provinces are made.

Butts are not considered foreigners to punjab, they speak punjabi etc My point was that Sharif never identified as punjabi first ever.

whether you like or not, you ain't a Punjabi that's confirmed, I don't give a fck about ur words, if u are not original Punjabi, because you have zero to negative knowledge about Punjabis, and am sorry "You will never understand unless you are a Punjabi".

Second, how can you say am not Punjabi, I was born and lived in Pakistani Punjab for 20 years before i moved to UK. My whole family mix of shia-sunnis origins from middle-east/iran lives in Punjab; by ur third class definition I & my family are not a even punjabi too....lol what the hell. I hate to be part of any other ethnicity or identity other than being Punjabis.

As far as Nawaz Sharif is concerned born in Lahore, why would he say 'jag Punjabi jag', y not jag kashmiri jag, i told u, gave u sources evidence he said he is Punjabi of Kashmiri Origins.

For your information: Who are Punjabi people : http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/who-are-the-punjabi-people.html

 

[Kabira]

whether you like or not, you ain't a Punjabi that's confirmed, I don't give a fck about ur words, if u are not original Punjabi, because you have zero to negative knowledge about Punjabis, and am sorry "You will never understand unless you are a Punjabi".

Second, how can you say am not Punjabi, I was born and lived in Pakistani Punjab for 20 years before i moved to UK. My whole family mix of shia-sunnis origins from middle-east/iran lives in Punjab; by ur third class definition I & my family are not a even punjabi too....lol what the hell. I hate to be part of any other ethnicity or identity other than being Punjabis.

As far as Nawaz Sharif is concerned born in Lahore, why would he say 'jag Punjabi jag', y not jag kashmiri jag, i told u, gave u sources evidence he said he is Punjabi of Kashmiri Origins.

Who are Punjabi people : http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/who-are-the-punjabi-people.html

How are you more punjabi then me when its you who are claiming to be middle eastern and making anyone living in Lahore punjabi by default.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Looks like you can't find any source of Sharif saying he's punjabi first.

Can you find any source where he nawaz/shabaz claimed to be kahsmiri first ? I dont know why this unnecessary debate. Punjabi is umbrella term and even i refer to myself Punjabi when i am actually photohari and i have seen many kashmiri butts call themselves punjabi

First of all so far what we hear is that punjabis in Lahore make their kids speak only urdu. So how can people from other regions become punjabi after few years? If Nooras are punjabis then ask them to make punjabi official language of punjab. That way punjabi will be taught in schools and no longer considered language of illiterates. Punjabi isn't even allowed in punjab parliament.

Punjabi like Urdu language for national unity and for showing loyalty to Pakistan as its national language. You can speak punjabi without going to school thats why its consider language of illiterate while your cannot speak/write Urdu unless you went in school and learned it

 

[Asian.Century]

How are you more punjabi then me when its you who are claiming to be middle eastern and making anyone living in Lahore punjabi by default.

That's what my ancestors told me, ORIGINS, ORIGINS from ME/Iran, but me and my family infact grandfathers all were born, breaded, eaten, settled and lived in Punjab for 100s of years. identify ourselves as Punjabi, ethnic Punjabis. I & my family know shyt about Iran/Middle-east, i can't even speak a word abt arabic or farsi, but my caste/tribes origins from the said lands of west asia. What I know is Punjabi language, we daily speak Punjabi in UK and Pakistan, our family represent in armed forces, govt, and do council level politics in Punjab region, our land is all in Punjab. Traditions we follow are all Punjabi, clothes, food, music, baradari system is all from Punjab.

You will never understand unless you are a Punjabi", which unfortunately you are not.

you are just confused, desi of some other race, who just cannot compete upto the level of Punjabis.

 

[Kabira]

Can you find any source where he claim to be kahsmiri first ? I dont know why this unnecessary debate. Punjabi s umbrella term and even i refer to myself Punjabi when i am actually photohari and i have seen many kashmiri butts call themselves punjabi



Punjabi like Urdu language for national unity and for showing loyalty to Pakistan as its national language. You can speak punjabi without going to school thats why its consider language of illiterate while your cannot speak Urdu unless you went in school and learned it

Actually now days urdu is considered language of servants. Even afghanis can speak it. Now elite like to speak in English. Urdu isn't our language, it should be limited to official matters and to speak with those who don't understand native tongues like punjabi, potohari etc Punjabi, potohari, seraiki should be made official language of punjab even if it mean dividing province. What loyalty to Pakistan when others call you punjabi and you can't even speak punjabi because your parents didn't allow while living in Lahore. At this rate Lahore shouldn't be capital of punjab. Majority of punjabis live in rural areas speaking punjabi while ruled over by mummy daddy of Lahore who can't even speak punjabi.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Actually now days urdu is considered language of servants. Even afghanis can speak it. Now elite like to speak in English. Urdu isn't our language, it should be limited to official matters and to speak with those who don't understand native tongues like punjabi, potohari etc Punjabi, potohari, seraiki should be made official language of province even if it mean dividing province. What loyalty to Pakistan when others call you punjabi and you can't even speak punjabi because your parents didn't allow while living in Lahore. At this rate Lahore shouldn't be capital of punjab. Majority of punjabis live in rural areas speaking punjabi while ruled over by mummy daddy of Lahore who can't even speak punjabi.

Urdu is national language of Pakistan then how its not our language? Many Afghani in Punjab speak punjabi as well because they are running business in Punjab . No language is superior or inferior and stupid people make this war of languages. I love Urdu. I love Punjabi. Whats wrong in speaking boht Punjabi and Urdu? I speak punjabi with punjabi people but Urdu with those who dont understand Punjabi. Punjabi is still dominant language in Punjab region

 

[Kabira]

Urdu is national language of Pakistan then how its not our language? Many Afghani in Punjab speak punjabi as well because they are running business in Punjab . No language is superior or inferior and stupid people make this war of languages. I love Urdu. I love Punjabi. Whats wrong in speaking boht Punjabi and Urdu? I speak punjabi with punjabi people but Urdu with those who dont understand Punjabi. Punjabi is still dominant language in Punjab region

Nothing wrong with speaking both urdu and punjabi. Punjabi is dominant for time being because majority live in rural areas. While Lahoris so called punjabis don't allow their kids to speak in punjabi. Solution is more provinces eventually, only then may people care about their own language.

 

[Asian.Century]

Punjab, people, culture, and language.

Punjab means land of five rivers, anyone who lives in this land of five rivers is a punjabi ( a person from land of five rivers). Punjab consist of various races and ethnicities.


People here ( Punjab, Pakistan) speak Punjabi, which is a diverse language within itself. It varies from dialect to dialect , place to place, and it can even diverge into another language. Punjabi has not been standardized, unlike some other languages in the region, such as Urdu, which was adopted by the Mughals, standardized, and spread through their institutions.

In Punjab Pakistan, the population is majority Muslim, it is an exception, if a person is non-muslim. In Punjab India, the majority of population is Sikh or even Hindus.

In Punjab, Pakistan, religion and culture are separated, where religion is constant, but culture is fluid.

In Pakistan, Arabic/Persian script is used to write Punjabi, in India, Gurmukhi script is used to write Punjabi, and can contain some Sanskrit words.

Music

Music, in the Muslim population of punjab ( Now Punjab, Pakistan), can have negative connotations. A lot of music, songs, are derived from poetry by Muslims written about God or religion (Islam), in some way, to "justify" it, or purify it. As a result of this thought, you see Qawali has evolved out of it. Qawali is a type of music genre, which the lyrics usually consist of religion (Islam) directly or indirectly.

Bulle Shah Punjabi poetry sung by Hadiqa Kiyani in CokeStudio Pakistan. The poetry/song is about God.

This is reflected in modern day Pakistani music, such as heard in CokeStudio Pakistan. Where songs can have a touch of spirituality added to them.

Art

I can only speak of art in Punjab, Pakistan, I have no idea about art in Punjab, India.

Since Pakistan is a Muslim majority, people who adhere to Islam, generally tend not to draw figures of living creatures, so art here is usually expressed in form of design and architect. This is the case for, whole Pakistan, and is not limited to Punjab.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/punjabis-ruling-both-india-and-pakistan.251745

 

[Mr Happy]

Punjabi Identity is not monolithic unlike others, and 130m People speak Punjabi, 10th largest language spoken in the whole world.

I am really sorry but the true answer is "You will never understand unless you are a Punjabi".

There is no "refugee" concept in Punjab (a difference), a big difference in Punjabi ethnic definition to others e.g. if some Pashtun or any other tribe from Sindh born and starts living in Lahore tomorrow he can be as much Punjabi as anyone else, provided he has, Punjabi knowledge first, reading about Punjabi identity in detail might help. That is why Punjabis are first identified through the land, or city in Punjab they are born in, identify themselves to the land of 5 rivers, in groups, than the knowledge of Punjabi traditions, language, culture, social gathering comes in.

You are welcome. I would like to clarify that the Pahari of Azad Jammu and Kashmir, and Potohari is not Punjabi. Hindko is in essence s Pahari language. I have been writing a Pahari dictionary for more than two years. Language is classified primarily based on grammar.

Pahari of Azad Jammu and Kashmir, especially the Mirpur dialect.

1) Kun - who? From Nepalese/Nepali which is an East Pahari language.

2) Kus - who? From Kashmiri which is a Dardic language.

3) Jatlan - a place in Mirpur district, Azad Jammu and Kashmir. Jatlan means pilgrimage in the Bhadrawahi dialect of West Pahari. Bhadarwah tehsil is in Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir.

These are only three examples. I have a whole dictionary full of examples.

Punjab, people, culture, and language.

Punjab means land of five rivers, anyone who lives in this land of five rivers is a punjabi ( a person from land of five rivers). Punjab consist of various races and ethnicities.


People here ( Punjab, Pakistan) speak Punjabi, which is a diverse language within itself. It varies from dialect to dialect , place to place, and it can even diverge into another language. Punjabi has not been standardized, unlike some other languages in the region, such as Urdu, which was adopted by the Mughals, standardized, and spread through their institutions.

In Punjab Pakistan, the population is majority Muslim, it is an exception, if a person is non-muslim. In Punjab India, the majority of population is Sikh or even Hindus.

In Punjab, Pakistan, religion and culture are separated, where religion is constant, but culture is fluid.

In Pakistan, Arabic/Persian script is used to write Punjabi, in India, Gurmukhi script is used to write Punjabi, and can contain some Sanskrit words.

Music

Music, in the Muslim population of punjab ( Now Punjab, Pakistan), can have negative connotations. A lot of music, songs, are derived from poetry by Muslims written about God or religion (Islam), in some way, to "justify" it, or purify it. As a result of this thought, you see Qawali has evolved out of it. Qawali is a type of music genre, which the lyrics usually consist of religion (Islam) directly or indirectly.

Bulle Shah Punjabi poetry sung by Hadiqa Kiyani in CokeStudio Pakistan. The poetry/song is about God.

This is reflected in modern day Pakistani music, such as heard in CokeStudio Pakistan. Where songs can have a touch of spirituality added to them.

Art

I can only speak of art in Punjab, Pakistan, I have no idea about art in Punjab, India.

Since Pakistan is a Muslim majority, people who adhere to Islam, generally tend not to draw figures of living creatures, so art here is usually expressed in form of design and architect. This is the case for, whole Pakistan, and is not limited to Punjab.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/punjabis-ruling-both-india-and-pakistan.251745

One more example is:

ganetri used in Mirpur Pahari. Ganetri is from ganeti.
Ganeti is from Pali and means counts, takes notice of. The r is metathesis and a Dardic characteristic.

Hence, a Dardic characteristic has been applied to Pali ganeti to form ganetri.

There is no "kun, kus, jatlan, ganetri" in Punjabi. I humbly say I have a dictionary of examples.

Our family bloodline is ethnic Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir. Punjabi replaced the dying language as our family migrated to the rest of Pakistan. People have false notion that people who speak punjabi are punjabi. It is just language that replaces another language. We are speaking english right now but that does not make us british english, does it?

But it is true Punjabi have great rich history. For starter, Azad Kashmir owes their freedom to the Pakistani army dominated by punjabis.

Even Pathans i know who migrated to punjabi region in Pakistan has adopted punjabi as their primary language. So Pashto is unheard in their family now. Things change in life.

There is a misconception that Azad Kashmiris people speak Punjabi. They speak Dardic Pahari.

Examples

1) kun means who - from Nepali, an East Pahari language.
2) Kus means who - from Kashmiri, a Dardic language
3) Ganetri means counts, takes notice of - from ganeti in Pali. The r is post-consonantal metathesis which is a Dardic characteristic.
I have a dictionary of examples which distinguishes Punjabi from (Dardic) Pahari.

However, some Pahari, Hindko, Potohari speakers do mix Punjabi when they speak.

 

[Kabira]

There is a misconception that Azad Kashmiris people speak Punjabi. They speak Dardic Pahari.

Examples

1) kun means who - from Nepali, an East Pahari language.
2) Kus means who - from Kashmiri, a Dardic language
3) Ganetri means counts, takes notice of - from ganeti in Pali. The r is post-consonantal metathesis which is a Dardic characteristic.
I have a dictionary of examples which distinguishes Punjabi from (Dardic) Pahari.

However, some Pahari, Hindko, Potohari speakers do mix Punjabi when they speak.

First time I'm hearing about dardic pahari, you know there are lots of videos of all these languages on youtube from Neapli/eastern pahari, kashmiri and mirpuri. The reason foreigners say Azad Kashmiris speak punjabi is because to them it literally sound like punjabi but we know the differences. Seraiki and Mirpuri can understand and speak with each other in their own native tongue but Mirpuri cannot speak with ethnic kashmiri neither nepali.