Pulwama - From Bluster to a Whimper

[Comfortably Numb]

Disclosing source(s) is gonna make them stand with the same guys who released hassan's first video... Why tarnish or paint their career.

8 vs 6 locks scenarioand the professionalism of both airforces to follow protocol or norm even when under duress or war hysteria is itself a gud page or more writeup.
Its like a decade from now someone from x-iaf will decide to write an autobiography or a narrative on "from kargil to pulwama" and he will disclose the fall from grace for the iaf guys and their morale. Only then will u agree.

Avm shahid latif was and is the man of paf, he has paf in his blood and jf17 is the adopted child that he nurtured and helped to stand on its feet. Do you honestly believe he will not tow the line to glorify his child.

8 vs 6 locks? please elaborate

 

[NA71]

100% agreed. Although the battle commander must be given clear instructions on ground...so why did he delay.....will someone ever ask him? it is not new....we have done it in 2008....with MiG 29

 

[Windjammer]

Latest painting by Aviation Art of Rehan Siraj on Operation Swift Retort, depicts a memorable moment of a JF-17 Thunder pilot in an aerial Combat on 27th February 2019, as he watches 2 BVR missiles from PAF aircrafts zooming towards their target, destroying an Indian Air force Mig-21 Bison and an SU-30MKI. The Mig pilot, Wing Cmdr Abhinandan, ejected and became POW.

 

[AsifIjaz]

Radar locks by the 2 airforces with the control toom resonating with the nos and the cic saying hold, hold, wait, hold....
Hope u get it

8 vs 6 locks? please elaborate

Sent from my E6633 using Defence.pk mobile app

 

[thinkingcap81]

Radar locks by the 2 airforces with the control toom resonating with the nos and the cic saying hold, hold, wait, hold....
Hope u get it

Does this mean that the claim that MKIs could not achieve radar locks are false?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

4 other F-16s had Su-30's and entire formation of 5 Mig 21's at the radar lock but the decision to engage came 10-15 seconds late. And till that time those migs had abandoned Abhinandan and vectored away.

Jf 17s didn't locked any?

 

[AsifIjaz]

Mirage 2000 and mki are both formidable aircraft.. Should not be taken lightly.
Luck was on our side, we were better prepared tactfully not physical assets wise but most importantly we had our brains in our skulls... Thats why we were successful.
I wonder sometimes that had iaf, god forbids, downed a paf jet and what would have happened then? Would they have gone on a war spree or thought like paf cic, logically and with restraint.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Yes. The reason is simple.

Shooting down an enemy aircraft is a major undertaking with lasting consequences. And these consequences cannot be pinned on a pilots incompetence or miscalculation at best.

Hence the target is verified by air defenders (Ground controllers) to be 5 nm farther from the border area. Then the request goes up the chain to the highest officer in the Ops room. Which is usually a ACS Ops (Air Commodore) or even DCAS Ops as seen on 27th Feb.

If the aircraft debris falls even under 5 nm of your border, you will be pinned as an aggressor who did not give the intruder the due 'time and benefit of doubt' to correct its course. Mind you, in this case the aircraft fell 5 nm INSIDE YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

So air combat has an unforgiving and a lasting impact.

So India would had done same if they had locked our jets inside our territory on 26th Feb?

 

[Shabi1]

Yes. The reason is simple.

Shooting down an enemy aircraft is a major undertaking with lasting consequences. And these consequences cannot be pinned on a pilots incompetence or miscalculation at best.

Hence the target is verified by air defenders (Ground controllers) to be 5 nm farther from the border area. Then the request goes up the chain to the highest officer in the Ops room. Which is usually a ACS Ops (Air Commodore) or even DCAS Ops as seen on 27th Feb.

If the aircraft debris falls even under 5 nm of your border, you will be pinned as an aggressor who did not give the intruder the due 'time and benefit of doubt' to correct its course. Mind you, in this case the aircraft fell 5 nm INSIDE YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

So air combat has an unforgiving and a lasting impact.

India isnt a saint in terms of ROE, proven from the Atlantique incident, when they crossed into Pakistan aerospace (very brief moment to take the shot) to shoot down a plane inside no mans territory without the warning to turn back. So if anyone claims InAF didnt fire at PAF because of permission or rules of engagement it is BS.

Further more incident of shooting down own Mi-17 and the inability to confirm the downed Mig-21 pilot till captured pilot videos released, removes any doubt on InAF ability to be organized on that day.

And contrast in their reactions after handing back their pilot as well as their Balakot claims also show they have no honor.

And if anyone still has doubts on InAF integrity then their lies on Abhi shooting a missile should be the final nail. For the arguers who claim R-73 #2 was fired, left wing was on fire and second picture shows the exhaust portion still attached to pylon. These two pictures are enough to end the argument for any Pakistani and stop getting entangled with any troll.

 

[airomerix]

Does this mean that the claim that MKIs could not achieve radar locks are false?

It is absolutely false. The MKI which was later shot down had a radar lock on the viper and it was vice versa. The difference is, viper pilot was able to break that missile lock by 'means' and go after it.

The flanker pilots chickened out. Disengaged and were on the run.

So India would had done same if they had locked our jets inside our territory on 26th Feb?

Definitely. On the night of 26th, IAF was on alert since Indians anticipated a retaliatory attack in the dark of the night. Instead we surprised them in broad day light. There was heavy patrolling of AWACS, flankers and Mirages on the night of 26th.

Jf 17s didn't locked any?

JF-17s had two dozen radar locks in the entire episode. The jets after getting locked used to escape the A pole and hence the lock was broken. Then engage again. This goes on in air combat until one or both the jets launch the missiles. SD-10 radar locks is also what confused the indians. Difference is, F-16s pilots got to call the shots.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

India isnt a saint in terms of ROE, proven from the Atlantique incident, when they crossed into Pakistan aerospace (very brief moment to take the shot) to shoot down a plane inside no mans territory without the warning to turn back. So if anyone claims InAF didnt fire at PAF because of permission or rules of engagement it is BS.

Further more incident of shooting down own Mi-17 and the inability to confirm the downed Mig-21 pilot till captured pilot videos released, removes any doubt on InAF ability to be organized on that day.

And contrast in their reactions after handing back their pilot as well as their Balakot claims also show they have no honor.

And if anyone still has doubts on InAF integrity then their lies on Abhi shooting a missile should be the final nail. For the arguers who claim R-73 #2 was fired, left wing was on fire and second picture shows the exhaust portion still attached to pylon. These two pictures are enough to end the argument for any Pakistani and stop getting entangled with any troll.
View attachment 563969
View attachment 563970

I agree with this sentiment. Clearly India attempted to decisively label Pak as a defender of terrorists by performing an attack against "non military non civilian target". They chose these words carefully in order to alter RoE against any aircraft interpreted as directly defending their non civ non mil target. In my opinion, IAF - if it had air superiority - would most definitely take the shot against Pak military units if it had locked on. With Balakot strikes they attempted to unilaterally change the RoE for all future conflicts, surgical strikes etc. There can be no doubt about their intentions. Luckily they were stopped dead in their scheming.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Definitely. On the night of 26th, IAF was on alert since Indians anticipated a retaliatory attack in the dark of the night. Instead we surprised them in broad day light. There was heavy patrolling of AWACS, flankers and Mirages on the night of 26th.

Sir I am actually about that time when Indian planes dropped bombs. If they had locks on our jets when we were intercepting them wouldnt they had shot down our jets?

 

[airomerix]

Sir I am actually about that time when Indian planes dropped bombs. If they had locks on our jets when we were intercepting them wouldnt they had shot down our jets?

On 26th only a few of our JF-17s were in the sector to intercept their formation. They ran back and we did not cross the border for obvious reasons. It cannot be speculated whether they would have shot us down for minor ingress.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes. The reason is simple.

Shooting down an enemy aircraft is a major undertaking with lasting consequences. And these consequences cannot be pinned on a pilots incompetence or miscalculation at best.

Hence the target is verified by air defenders (Ground controllers) to be 5 nm farther from the border area. Then the request goes up the chain to the highest officer in the Ops room. Which is usually a ACS Ops (Air Commodore) or even DCAS Ops as seen on 27th Feb.

If the aircraft debris falls even under 5 nm of your border, you will be pinned as an aggressor who did not give the intruder the due 'time and benefit of doubt' to correct its course. Mind you, in this case the aircraft fell 5 nm INSIDE YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

So air combat has an unforgiving and a lasting impact.

Hi,

It is not simple---it is disturbing---. The 'hit' aircraft is not going to tell where it is going to fall---.

On a larger scale air combat---some aircraft hit on your side will fall way inside the enemy grounds---.

I am not talking about pilot's incompetence here---. The pilot did his job---.

I am talking about the planners who did not take into consideration all the scenarios.

Looks like there were 9 + enemy aircraft in the KILL ZONE of Paf---. With so many aircraft present---confusion developed in the heirarchy of the Paf---and the person incharge did not want to stay the 'person incharge'---he calls his boss---who calls his boss---.

The order came down 'to shoot'---by then the enemy had turned tail---.

Primarily---the enemy aircraft were all in the kill zone arena or the whereabuots---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

It is not simple---it is disturbing---. The 'hit' aircraft is not going to tell where it is going to fall---.

On a larger scale air combat---some aircraft hit on your side will fall way inside the enemy grounds---.

I am not talking about pilot's incompetence here---. The pilot did his job---.

I am talking about the planners who did not take into consideration all the scenarios.

Looks like there were 9 + enemy aircraft in the KILL ZONE of Paf---. With so many aircraft present---confusion developed in the heirarchy of the Paf---and the person incharge did not want to stay the 'person incharge'---he calls his boss---who calls his boss---.

The order came down 'to shoot'---by then the enemy had turned tail---.

Primarily---the enemy aircraft were all in the kill zone arena or the whereabuots---.

Sometimes you need a General Patton!!! All of the IAF aircrafts should have been shot down...