Pulwama - From Bluster to a Whimper

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I will tell you how it makes sense.

The situation in the air is always changing. It is so fast paced that even if a jet makes a 360, he exits the fight altogether (speaking of dogfights).

The orders for shooting down came when there was a situation X. The bandits were getting close. The probablity of the debris of those jets falling inside Pakistan was certain. The green signal came.

BUT. We now saw the same bandits moving away. The situation has changed now. There is no need to go after them and shoot them down EVEN IF WE CAN. There is a difference.

And you like it or not. The most sensible thing is to take the 'mama' in confidence. Because the MAMA knows what other kids are doing. And where other bad boys are lurking. She knows best. Listen to MAMA.

But, at the end of the day you need to strike the ultimate terror into the hearts of these folks if you want to deter them for a long period of time.....

 

[Ultima Thule]

@MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet

PAF did Swipe the slate clean. 8 kills it is...3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i, 3 x MiG-21bis

This @airomerix guy does have the true info and i can bet on it..he is just distorting as per instructions from above. lets say 2 x serving Grp Cpt. were dead sure JF17 scored the both kills. who is he to say F-16s scored these kills..if he says Vipe driver told him then why Serving Grp Cpts are saying something different altogether..it is purposefully hidden/distorted by PAF and on specific instructions that came of ACM staff.

things will open up with a bang! and rest assured Indians will 1st admit the 8 losses th....then i will ask airomerix what he has to say...

We can always agree to disagree...

stop it, this is too much @TheTallGuy

 

[NA71]

threat for missile strike from India made us trembling ... we quickly announce release of pilot ....and so on....the nuclear bluff from other side worked well....although this bluff was supposed to be our weapon (Indian narrative)

 

[MastanKhan]

I will tell you how it makes sense.

The situation in the air is always changing. It is so fast paced that even if a jet makes a 360, he exits the fight altogether (speaking of dogfights).

The orders for shooting down came when there was a situation X. The bandits were getting close. The probablity of the debris of those jets falling inside Pakistan was certain. The green signal came.

BUT. We now saw the same bandits moving away. The situation has changed now. There is no need to go after them and shoot them down EVEN IF WE CAN. There is a difference.

And you like it or not. The most sensible thing is to take the 'mama' in confidence. Because the MAMA knows what other kids are doing. And where other bad boys are lurking. She knows best. Listen to MAMA.

Hi,

The situation X or situation Y---this would be the part of pre-planning---. Because it was our strike---we planned it---we executed it---.

This MAMA drama needs to end---. The field commander must take charge & this field commander was an AVM rank---.

The Atlantique happened because base commander did not take charge of the situation other than warning---if on his own initiative he would have sent in an escort thing would be different---.

In 1971---if the base commander took his own initiative and sent a couple of aircraft to see what those supposed missile boats were---karachi would not have been struck by enemy missiles---.

This mama drama of mama knows best is JI HAZOORI---Ji JANAB---AAP KI IJAZAT HO---.

But, at the end of the day you need to strike the ultimate terror into the hearts of these folks if you want to deter them for a long period of time.....

Hi,

The thing is that these pakistani boys do not understand that it made no difference if you shot 2 on that day on 10 on that day + the submarine---the enemy will come back to strike.

This is a repeat of Kargil---the enemy was cornered---Paf was nowhere---.

This time Paf showed up---and then let enemy escape with some dignity---.

 

[Flight of falcon]

This whole idea of striking big, putting fear, base commander under reacting is all BS. Circumstances dictate response not written rules posted on the wall or urge to show bravado.
This is not a movie and in real life heroes die first.
Sinking enemy submarine and shooting 10 planes would have put Modi in the position where nothing short of a full scale nuclear holocaust would calm the situation down.
Sink their submarine? Navy is one area where we are badly outnumbered and outgunned. You would face Indian navy attack with 32 frigates/destroyers, two nuclear submarines, an aircraft carrier , a complete blockade of our supply lines , complete shut down of trade and supplies to say the least. We are four years away from having enough ships and strength to face them and fight them.

This whole episode was meant to embarrass India and to force them think twice about attacking. It was NOT meant to start the full scale war.

This idea reminds me of a school yard fight when I was in High school. This cocky idiot who happened to be Pakistani picked fight with a Filipino kid and beat him up badly. Next day the same Filipino kid offered him another fight. This time he called his back up from other schools and Filipino kids beat the crap out of Tahir and broke his nose ....
lesson : he had already won the fight and there was no need to show off and fall into their trap. Result was a total *** planting and humiliation.
My dear member is suggesting similar result for our nation.

 

[airomerix]

Hi,

The situation X or situation Y---this would be the part of pre-planning---. Because it was our strike---we planned it---we executed it---.

Incorrect.

The shooting down of migs or su's was not at all foreseen. It was a bonus for us. The pre planned mission revolved around video footage of H4's striking enemy positions. We did not anticipate an indian jet coming after our aircrafts.

This MAMA drama needs to end---. The field commander must take charge & this field commander was an AVM rank---.

A real admiral of US Navy (fleet commander) needs to speak to Pentagon before taking any decision which involves shooting down of any adversary aircraft during peace time. Pakistan is no different.

The senior guys up there were there to assess the situation in the virtue of their experience and make the right decision. And they did.

The Atlantique happened because base commander did not take charge of the situation other than warning---if on his own initiative he would have sent in an escort thing would be different---.

In 1971---if the base commander took his own initiative and sent a couple of aircraft to see what those supposed missile boats were---karachi would not have been struck by enemy missiles---.

This mama drama of mama knows best is JI HAZOORI---Ji JANAB---AAP KI IJAZAT HO---.

Refer to the post in response to yours by this new guy. It carries weight. Its not a movie.

Shaheen me aisa kiya hai jo Ghauri me nahi? Ghauri istimaal nai hoga India ke khilaaf?

Ghauri's have a different purpose so does Shaheen.

 

[HawkEye27]

Hi,

Don't talk cheap---.

You can verify this fact from any of your internal source in PAF, pappu!! Don’t act cheap

 

[MastanKhan]

Incorrect.
The shooting down of migs or su's was not at all foreseen. It was a bonus for us. The pre planned mission revolved around video footage of H4's striking enemy positions. We did not anticipate an indian jet coming after our aircrafts.

A real admiral of US Navy (fleet commander) needs to speak to Pentagon before taking any decision which involves shooting down of any adversary aircraft during peace time. Pakistan is no different.

Hi,

First of all---it was not a bonus---it was to be a part of the pre-planning---" the what if " category planning---.

It is basic knowledge 101---if we sent in 20 aircraft---they will scramble many of their aircraft---and as we knew what we knew---we already had an estimate of how many aircraft would be coming in from knowledgeable assumption related to experience---and for those enemy aircraft how many of our aircraft would be setup and positioned to intercept them---counter them & take them out---.

The enemy fell into the trap verbatim---like a well planned rehearsal it all fell in place---.

The only weak link was the AVM that you bragged about---he did not have the ballz to order---push the button---.

We should not talk about pentagon---americans would have pre planned all the enemy encounters up frontand anyone in the 'zone' would have been taken out.

We should bring in the Israelis in the picture---how they have decimated their enemies when they got the lifetime opportunity---.

 

[HawkEye27]

Hi,

First of all---it was not a bonus---it was to be a part of the pre-planning---" the what if " category planning---.

It is basic knowledge 101---if we sent in 20 aircraft---they will scramble many of their aircraft---and as we knew what we knew---we already had an estimate of how many aircraft would be coming in from knowledgeable assumption related to experience---and for those enemy aircraft how many of our aircraft would be setup and positioned to intercept them---counter them & take them out---.

The enemy fell into the trap verbatim---like a well planned rehearsal it all fell in place---.

The only weak link was the AVM that you bragged about---he did not have the ballz to order---push the button---.

We should not talk about pentagon---americans would have pre planned all the enemy encounters up frontand anyone in the 'zone' would have been taken out.

We should bring in the Israelis in the picture---how they have decimated their enemies when they got the lifetime opportunity---.

You comments simply show that you dont have any idea about actual air combat and complexities. You think its a game.

With 24 (PAF) + 8 (IAF) + 5 (Civil) aircraft in just 100-150 nm area and all making long radius turns (to conserve energy).

You have no idea what fuss it creates on the radar scopes.

And then comes the EW and Chaff garbage.

Again Kashmir area being hilly has its own effects.

It was a large force employment done by PAF/IAF first time in history. 65/71 raids were at max 10 with lil warning to enemy.

Targets needs to be verified before being shot down. The brass and AVM in the air are more concerned about blue on blue then killing a red.

You all saying facebook stuff about what to buy and what no to. Told you PAF is smarter than all of us, even IAF.

While loads itself with another platform in its AF. PAF is going to further network its datalinks so that next time AVM in air just sees the track turn to red (confirm) and then kaboom

 

[TsAr]

Shaheen me aisa kiya hai jo Ghauri me nahi? Ghauri istimaal nai hoga India ke khilaaf?

Ghauri uses liquid fuel which takes longer to prepare, meanwhile Shaheen is solid fuel which takes less time to prepare the missile for strike.

 

[Ultima Thule]

With 24 (PAF) + 8 (IAF) + 5 (Civil) aircraft

Indian version of air battles DGISPR clearly state in his first press conference the strike package consist 12 PAF jets 6 JF-17, 6 Mirage -5 , F-16 doing CAPs deep inside Pakistan airspace @tipu_ssw

 

[HawkEye27]

Indian version of air battles DGISPR clearly state in his first press conference the strike package consist 12 PAF jets 6 JF-17, 6 Mirage -5 , F-16 doing CAPs deep inside Pakistan airspace @tipu_ssw

Strike Package Only

I am talking about escorts, support aircraft, CAPs along with those on indian side

 

[Thorough Pro]

for the highlighted in red, you must be kidding or is PAF as incompetent as IAF proved to be, not anticipating a response from a sovereign nation and that too a bully which started the hostilities

Incorrect.

The shooting down of migs or su's was not at all foreseen. It was a bonus for us. The pre planned mission revolved around video footage of H4's striking enemy positions. We did not anticipate an indian jet coming after our aircrafts.



A real admiral of US Navy (fleet commander) needs to speak to Pentagon before taking any decision which involves shooting down of any adversary aircraft during peace time. Pakistan is no different.

The senior guys up there were there to assess the situation in the virtue of their experience and make the right decision. And they did.




Refer to the post in response to yours by this new guy. It carries weight. Its not a movie.



Ghauri's have a different purpose so does Shaheen.

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

@MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet

PAF did Swipe the slate clean. 8 kills it is...3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i, 3 x MiG-21bis

This @airomerix guy does have the true info and i can bet on it..he is just distorting as per instructions from above. lets say 2 x serving Grp Cpt. were dead sure JF17 scored the both kills. who is he to say F-16s scored these kills..if he says Vipe driver told him then why Serving Grp Cpts are saying something different altogether..it is purposefully hidden/distorted by PAF and on specific instructions that came of ACM staff.

things will open up with a bang! and rest assured Indians will 1st admit the 8 losses th....then i will ask airomerix what he has to say...

We can always agree to disagree...

salaam tall guy

Here we go again.

You are very persistent in 8 kills. I would love to have them but there are no credible evidence.

So please explain again from where you get those 8 kills?

regards

 

[Ultima Thule]

Strike Package Only

I am talking about escorts, support aircraft, CAPs along with those on indian side

Escorts did JF-17 for strike package @tipu_ssw