proposal for a new division of south asia

[jamahir]

Yes,

There are scores of ideologies that are more successful than bloodthirsty ideology of socialism.

But, i am not an evangelist. I have no motivation to waste my time in order to convert you. So, writhe in cesspool of socialism. If you become a problem, you would be eliminated like a Pig, similar to how your naxal brothers have been.

the supreme irony of your first and second sentence...

How is this relevant to Telugus, Kannadigas, Tamils and Malayalis, or to Bengalis, Odiyas, Assamese, Khasis, Bodos, Nagas, Kukis, Meitei, Mizos, Lepchas, Gurkhas, and the host of others outside the Hindi speakers? Why do you think any of these would hold still for Hindi imposition, or Urdu imposition on them?

from what i read of somalia of the socialist years pre-1991... the leader, siad barre, saw tribalism as hindering the common good of somalia... so, he introduced a common script ( or dialect ).

regionalism ( via language or culture ) is the tribalism of india... and south asia...

 

[Joe Shearer]

the supreme irony of your first and second sentence...



from what i read of somalia of the socialist years pre-1991... the leader, siad barre, saw tribalism as hindering the common good of somalia... so, he introduced a common script ( or dialect ).

regionalism ( via language or culture ) is the tribalism of india... and south asia...

Very true.

And what is your reason for my abandoning my tribe and joining that of another?

Have you read about Athenian democracy? It might help, while you are formulating these ideas, to study it, especially the structure of its tribes.

 

[jamahir]

And what is your reason for my abandoning my tribe and joining that of another?

i didn't understand that...

do reply to me but also do excuse me because i must log-off now... been on pdf all night... will reply to you in some hours...

 

[genmirajborgza786]

While I generally agree with this analysis, the role of the British was so blatantly pro-Muslim merging later into pro-Pakistan that it was difficult to visualise what Pakistan might have been without their overt support.

Take for instance the role of Major Brown in the events in Chitral, in Gilgit, and then in Baltistan and Ladakh, from parts of which he withdrew. The entire map of Kashmir today, the entire Northern Territory is his doing. And this is just an overt expression; there was so much covert pressure, against India, for Pakistan.

Not just at the time of partition but later. That is why it is poignant to read Imran Khan's analysis. How much other nations backed Pakistan, and how little got translated into development.

agreed , but then again that is post- partition , while my analysis was of the alternate to partition altogether, the British helped in assimilating gilgit-baltistan , was because the British always wanted partition from the beginning, while Md Ali Jinnah wanted autonomy from the beginning , & in the realms of the coming cold war, @ the historical backdrop of the Great Game, followed by WW2 & the subsequent entry of the US & Russia in to the stage , India was to be partitioned , in order to for the Allies, to be able to keep their foothold in the "bulk" (present day Pakistan ) so as to handicap India from falling completely in the soviet camp , Because a border with Afghanistan, would then mean access to the wakhan corridor ! & an access to the wakhan corridor , would amount to direct Russian foothold in South Asia ! & , a direct Russian foothold in South Asia would mean BYE BYE Indo-China & Hello in the Arabian Sea @ the same time !

Joe sir , contrary to popular belief, the Partition was much more then just what meets the eye, & it was certainly more then just the demonised Hindu-Muslim problem , in fact the Hindu-Muslim problem was just a tactic , a brilliant one though, but nonetheless a tactic , in the larger game of the "Cold War" !

History is written by the victor & the victors of world war 2 were the Allies & Russia ,& in this case, the Allies made sure that they get to write the history of South Asia ! just think about it, After Gandhi & Jinnah had agreed to the cabinet mission plan , Nehru should have been concentrating & working on the opposition benches instead ,what was he doing with Attlee & Mount Batten ?
@scorpionx

 

[dravidianhero]

I live in Chennai. Very difficult to find a person who speaks more than a smattering of Hindi. These forceful leaders of yours will have to start universal coaching classes.

Except in the rot called Tamil nadu everyone understands Hindi down in south.I live in telangana and I assure you almost every urban person speaks or at least understands Hindi.(even read and write)

 

[KingMamba]

No more division, only unions in the future.

 

[Joe Shearer]

agreed , but then again that is post- partition , while my analysis was of the alternate to partition altogether, the British helped in assimilating gilgit-baltistan , was because the British always wanted partition from the beginning, while Md Ali Jinnah wanted autonomy from the beginning , & in the realms of the coming cold war, & @ historical the backdrop of the Great Game, followed by WW2 & the subsequent entry of the US & Russia in stage , India was to be partitioned , in order to for the Allies, to be able to keep their foothold in the "bulk" (present day Pakistan ) so as to handicap India from falling completely in the soviet camp , Because a border with Afghanistan, would then mean access to the wakhan corridor ! & an access to the wakhan corridor , would amount to direct Russian foothold in South Asia ! & , a direct Russian foothold in South Asia would mean BYE BYE Indo-China & Hello in the Arabian @ the same time !

Joe sir , contrary to popular belief, the Partition was much more then just what meets the eye, & it was certainly more then just the demonised Hindu-Muslim problem , in fact the Hindu-Muslim problem was just a tactic , a brilliant one though, but nonetheless a tactic , in the larger game of the "Cold War" !

History is written by the victor & the victors of world war 2 were the Allies & Russia ,& in this case, the Allies made sure that they get to write the history of South Asia ! just think about it, After Gandhi & Jinnah had agreed to the cabinet mission plan , Nehru should have been concentrating & working on the opposition benches instead ,what was he doing with Attlee & Mount Batten ?
@scorpionx

This is such a POWERFUL post! If only I could have written it :-(

Sir, if you haven't already done so, please take a look at Narendra Singh Sarila's "The Shadow of the Great Game". I don't agree with much of it, but it is a fascinating point of view.

 

[third eye]

south asia, the continuous land-mass from afghanistan to bangladesh can be divided into administrative zones and the division must not be based on present lines ( culture and language )... the governance must be based on socialism ( jamahiri... i will explain jamahiriya in another thread )... the official language must be english in each zone, plus the cultural language must be hindi ( in present times, hindi is essentially urdu )... no other language must be permitted... no village must be permitted... every habitation must be a city... all weapons presently with national militaries must be confiscated.. those militaries converted into police force, of course with machine guns and armored personnel carriers ( like brdm 2 ) and helicopters ( like ka-50 ).

the above kind of division among humanity is the necessary future... the solution is as simple as people reading, talking with others over tea, accepting... the solution becomes impossible to achieve if people continue their unnecessary hatreds and nationalism...

Please dont stop taking medicines, it has serious side effects & put you in dangerous situations !

 

[genmirajborgza786]

This is such a POWERFUL post! If only I could have written it :-(

thank's joe sir, its an honor

 

[FaujHistorian]

I know this mate , it was Nehru & his lust for power who rejected it, you will be amazed to learn that it was Qauid-e-Azam Md.Ali Jinnah & Mahatma Gandhi, who agreed to the cabinet mission plan , when Gandhi ji supported Md.Ali Jinnah in this, Nehru felt betrayed by Gandhi (note the role of Gandhi in negotiation with the British, diminished considerably after that , as Nehru made sure that Gandhi becomes symbolic rather then have a say in political matters in the real term) in fact the cabinet mission plan was the undisputed victory of both Qauid-e-Azam & Allama Iqbal , as the struggle from the beginning was to secure two large autonomous provinces within the framework of a federation , I think even Ayub Khan had also proposed a joint Indo-Pak defense agreement , in a federation with two autonomous province & Quaid e Azam Md.Ali Jinnah as its prime minister, the Quaid would almost certainly make sure that the arm forces had the maximum numbers of Muslims , & that would be the masterstroke with which, the power of running federal India would ultimately favour the Muslims , it was the best solution ,which power hungry Nehru & the ever deceitful British had to ruin it, & they did

he who has the Army, has the keys to Authority !

Actually Gandhi Ji opposed it too.

And no British didn't "ruin" the plan. They were the ones who prepared the initial draft. Remember Brits sent Stafford Cripps to head this mission for a reason. And you know Why Cripps?

As I said, there are many conspiracy theories about that era, so It is OK if you wrote what you wrote even though it has many incorrect statements.

peace

 

[cloud_9]

what about khiva... does the below structure look "integrated" with north-west india or was nw india influenced by turkic, arab and irani cultures??

View attachment 145367

your point has nothing to do with what i was telling "love icon"...



are you pro-india or pro-human??



1. Mandela and Gaddafi: the myth of the Saint and the Mad Dog - English pravda.ru


2. please do read about the "world mathaba project" of the libyan jamahiriya ( on google books ), and the funding/training/political-support by libya of most true revolutionary groups in the world... including "african national congress" ( anc ) of nelson mandela...

3. sincerely, you don't have any real knowledge of political history and political present... please do dedicate to read, and drink cups of tea with your friends in discussion.

LOL! Another Google expert.Balkh and Bukhara were well integrated before Arabs or Turks were here.

If you are trying to write your argument based on a picture about the architecture maybe you should ask Pakistanis if they have seen something like that in Pakistan or maybe get on a bus and see the various forts built in Punjab that date back 1000 to 2000 years.

 

[Sriram]

the present anti-hindi situation in madras is because of the perception of hindi regionalism from the central governments... which has lead to tamil regionalism... and the tamil regionalists don't even see it...

even bangalore is full of kannada regionalism, even though it was non-kannada technologies and people which grew bangalore.

if english becomes official language, people in madras should have no objections, yes?? if they still have objection, it means they want petty concerns to hinder their own progress... besides, every city in this arrangement should become cosmopolitan with new names and sign boards... people should be moved from here, there and everywhere.

you don have the economic clout to impose hindi... what is th significance of hindi speaking and urdu speaking areas ?? zero..

 

[INDIC]

you don have the economic clout to impose hindi... what is th significance of hindi speaking and urdu speaking areas ?? zero..

You should write that in Greek, because its the only classical language which a classical language speaker should learn, stop speaking non-Classical Germanic-French cocktail called English.

 

[RISING SUN]

this thread is from an idea of @Ravi Nair and from further discussion with @FaujHistorian... though the presented region is south asia, the solution can be for every place humanity lives... presently and in future...

there was one urgent need for the british ensuring division of india in 1947... to have buffer states for countering the influence of communism/socialism in the southern hemisphere... if you look at the world map, and imagine that map in 1945... you will see presence of communism to the north of india ( china, soviet union )... to the west of india ( iran, afghanistan, west asia )... to the east of india ( present day indonesia and malaysia ).

tariq ali's book, "street fighting years", speaks of the massacre of indonesian communists in the 1960's.

the indian communist party was started in 1921 and had good influence... there were famous socialists, among them iqbal and bhagat singh... the western bloc after 1945 feared that if they didn't do something fast, south asia would become another domain of socialism... hence the partition, arranged by the british, encouraged hiddenly by usa... and their further meddling in afghanistan and iran... division of the land east of afghanistan into india and pakistan has only made south asians use nationalism as cover for their inherent biases and wrong cultures.

but speaking of the present... i see the problem called south asia to be among the top-five most problematic issues in the world... and ravi's post reminded me of muammar gaddafi's solution to kashmir... south asia, the continuous land-mass from afghanistan to bangladesh can be divided into administrative zones and the division must not be based on present lines ( culture and language )... the governance must be based on socialism ( jamahiri... i will explain jamahiriya in another thread )... the official language must be english in each zone, plus the cultural language must be hindi ( in present times, hindi is essentially urdu )... no other language must be permitted... no village must be permitted... every habitation must be a city... all weapons presently with national militaries must be confiscated.. those militaries converted into police force, of course with machine guns and armored personnel carriers ( like brdm 2 ) and helicopters ( like ka-50 ).

the above kind of division among humanity is the necessary future... the solution is as simple as people reading, talking with others over tea, accepting... the solution becomes impossible to achieve if people continue their unnecessary hatreds and nationalism...

@Ravi Nair @FaujHistorian @Spring Onion @Imran Khan @hinduguy @KingMamba @genmirajborgza786 @jbgt90 and everyone other south asian.

@Syrian Lion @Mahmoud_EGY @Ceylal @senheiser @Peter C @vostok @Götterdämmerung and all other peoples can also contribute.

I believe too much of anything can be detrimental in sustataining the growth of whatever you are proposing. The way India has adopted till now is perfect in my opinion. All state related affairs are running in regional way only from before independence while central athority related affairs are running in standard way. Hindi is in common use with English for communication with external elements. I believe all region should have their own unique identity with overlapping which provided the federal structure for us. We have full freedom in all four corner of India. Many don't speak Hindi and many speak. That is our common ground. No need to strictly enforce me. I have four good friends from Kashmir, two Hindu two muslim, more than 15 friends from south India including extreme southern part, five friends from northeast. And unlimited from western India. All speak fluent Hindi except one north east girl. She is Christian btw, actually more than 30 % of my friends are from other religious background. Sometimes we make fun of our riligion father baba n mullah n all too. Its really good actually. I will say we are lucky to have so much diversity. Maybe some Pakistani friends think we are only interested in lands. No, we have more than enough of them. We wanted more culture assimilation and adoption. We have adopted Many of buddhist, jainism and shikhism practices in our daily life. This is what which we sometime remember what we have missed in culture. That's it. We have even assimilated sindhi and tribal customs as well. Thank you.

 

[Developereo]

must be

There are a lot of "must"s in your proposal. The first thing you need to do is to replace Indian democracy with a dictatorship which can impose all those musts. Pakistan and Bangladesh are effectively dictatorships, so that part of the job is already done.

the Partition was [...] in the larger game of the "Cold War"

I am not sure I buy your premise.

If Britain wanted to retard the spread of socialism/communism in the region, it would have created a dozen states in the subcontinent which would continually be at each other's throats, not posing a threat to anyone outside the region. That's what the Brits did in the Middle East, Africa and the rest of their dominions.

Also, contrary to Sir @Joe Shearer view that Brits were anti-Hindu, I would say the Brits were exceptionally pro-Hindu. They gave the Hindus a united political entity in India -- something which hadn't existed for thousands of years. As noted above, this was very uncharacteristic;.the standard colonial practice was to create a mosaic of small countries, deliberately carved out to create mischief for years to come.