proposal for a new division of south asia

[Rajaraja Chola]

confederation of who and how??



difficult... but hindi is a compromise or balance language... bombay films ( hindi ) are watched everywhere... pakistan's official language is urdu... other indian states watch hindi films... and afghanistan and bangladesh know this language... difficult but with forceful leaders, can be achieved.

Afghanistan and Bangladesh do not speak this language.. And definitely, Dravidian parties will never accept a solution like this (Even I wont). Remember Bengali was the reason for breaking of Pakistan. This will bound to fail.. India is a diverse country. We need to respect its diversity .
And what of Militants who want to establish a Worldwide Islamic state? I have concerns with my country's borders opened to Pakistani tribal areas and radicalized militants, and to BD, where their workforce will enter our country at large and natives will be at a disadvange..
Germany took more than a decade to recover from its unification with East Germany, that too when its population is less and W.Germany was rich with funds from USA and Europe. Now Imagine India. It will take a century, and the geography of India in the said Union ,will again take 30 years to reach where it was at 2013 again.
All countries had their chances. Its just now India is utilizing its chances. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[chickenmasala]

We have already beaten the discussion of Partition to its death but lets re-look and summarize them.
1) Partition was political strategy and it has nothing to do with Hindu or Muslim divide. People get confused. It started with autonomy of Muslim League controlled states to getting prime minister ship of undivided India.

2) Idea Separate state was based on religious Identity was for 'Province' and not 'Country' originally

3) Undivided India had only one thing to make them in one bound and that was Britishers other wise culturally, NWFP has nothing with Meghalaya. This is the reason, Burma/Myanmar was made a separate colony by the British and we don't fight over it.

4) Partition happened in 1947 was not accepted by general public in total by that time. The result is that we still have all religious identities in every country.

5) Partition was never expected to have such bloodbath but the expedited process of partition created havoc. Also, people leaving their homeland of years became emotional to kill each other.

6) Even in 1947, Only Punjab and Bengal were supposed to be separated based on Religious identities and lines are supposed to be drawn. Rest all princely states were asked to join the either union or be independent. This is the most important part and people ignore it. Now, it was one's govt who either tried to merge them peacefully or forcibly and that is history.It happened earlier and happened 60 years back so move on.

7) Further partition in 1971, irrespective of historical events, defines that South Asia is more 'Cultural' and 'Language' bound rather than Religious bound. A Punjabi feels close to Punjabi on other side, UP/Bihar to Muhajir from Karachi, Bengali to Bengali etc

And as it is said that "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel", It has been utilized by our leaders on time to time basis. I request people to start seeing it in this way.

all your points are correct but i am not sure what you are trying to imply with that last quote. are you encouraging indian nationalism or regional nationalism? to me indian nationalism is fake and does not exist, tell me if you think i am wrong. as you said in #7, people feel closer to those culturally and linguistically. i live in america and have been to canada and read all over the internet, indian punjabis feel closer to pakistani punjabi muslims than other indians and will call themselves punjabi when they are international. religion matters less and they are more similar than say a kerala hindu... acting as if pakistan and india are so different, when east pakistan and north india are basically the same thing. and many people will find it hard to say "proud to be indian", because--each person is from on state, and there are 28 states in india, so how can you be proud of all of them when you are only from one of them? you are really just 1/28 of india

explain to me if you think i am wrong, i am interested in a reason why some indians are so patriotic (assuming it is not blind patriotism or hinduvata)

 

[Kompromat]

this thread is from an idea of @Ravi Nair and from further discussion with @FaujHistorian... though the presented region is south asia, the solution can be for every place humanity lives... presently and in future...

there was one urgent need for the british ensuring division of india in 1947... to have buffer states for countering the influence of communism/socialism in the southern hemisphere... if you look at the world map, and imagine that map in 1945... you will see presence of communism to the north of india ( china, soviet union )... to the west of india ( iran, afghanistan, west asia )... to the east of india ( present day indonesia and malaysia ).

tariq ali's book, "street fighting years", speaks of the massacre of indonesian communists in the 1960's.

the indian communist party was started in 1921 and had good influence... there were famous socialists, among them iqbal and bhagat singh... the western bloc after 1945 feared that if they didn't do something fast, south asia would become another domain of socialism... hence the partition, arranged by the british, encouraged hiddenly by usa... and their further meddling in afghanistan and iran... division of the land east of afghanistan into india and pakistan has only made south asians use nationalism as cover for their inherent biases and wrong cultures.

but speaking of the present... i see the problem called south asia to be among the top-five most problematic issues in the world... and ravi's post reminded me of muammar gaddafi's solution to kashmir... south asia, the continuous land-mass from afghanistan to bangladesh can be divided into administrative zones and the division must not be based on present lines ( culture and language )... the governance must be based on socialism ( jamahiri... i will explain jamahiriya in another thread )... the official language must be english in each zone, plus the cultural language must be hindi ( in present times, hindi is essentially urdu )... no other language must be permitted... no village must be permitted... every habitation must be a city... all weapons presently with national militaries must be confiscated.. those militaries converted into police force, of course with machine guns and armored personnel carriers ( like brdm 2 ) and helicopters ( like ka-50 ).

the above kind of division among humanity is the necessary future... the solution is as simple as people reading, talking with others over tea, accepting... the solution becomes impossible to achieve if people continue their unnecessary hatreds and nationalism...

@Ravi Nair @FaujHistorian @Spring Onion @Imran Khan @hinduguy @KingMamba @genmirajborgza786 @jbgt90 and everyone other south asian.

@Syrian Lion @Mahmoud_EGY @Ceylal @senheiser @Peter C @vostok @Götterdämmerung and all other peoples can also contribute.

* What kind of idiot would believe that Iqbal was a socialist?

* Gaddafi was mentally unstable, what does that say about your sanity after this 'genius' idea?

 

[Bong]

@Bong you too want reorganization of south asia, and i support you... just that we differ in the two points i mentioned in reply to you earlier.

This will surely happen in future. All want his or closest peoples' progress. Country progress means nothing at the end.
A strong nationalism is a fake seed I found. People will get richer and educated. They will no longer care for this national boundaries.
Countries will be more decentralized. And people will be more self centered. These giant entities and division of cities will be a good option.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

and to kill that man, it took 35+ western bloc militaries plus puppets ( ikhwaan/taliban/qaeda etc )...

besides, his friends were nelson mandela, hugo chavez and carlos... call them loons too.

and it was russia which provided satellite imagery to disprove bbc and white house claims that "gaddafi was killing civilians, including women and children".

go say your theories to vladimir putin...

you are not the brightest among humans.




there come the anti-human brigade of video-game-playing college boys...



i am.



modern south asian culture is not terribly a gentle and thinking culture... change must be brought by revolution, by whichever means...

Well, I ain't no video game college boy. Trust me, you are going down a dangerous path.

* What kind of idiot would believe that Iqbal was a socialist?

* Gaddafi was mentally unstable, what does that say about your sanity after this 'genius' idea?

@Ravi Nair put him up to this therefore unsurprising....I suspect a mallu commie among us.

i couldn't get you , can you be a bit more specific

Ehhh....socialists had all but ruined our country till now. We've worked hard to boot them out. At a drop they'll be back.

 

[The Huskar]

Humans as a race are more inclined to bond when sharing a common idea or a common cause.Here people are proposing the idea of a United Confederate of South Asian countries who share nothing in common except for maybe skin color.Hell,even the same people sharing same religion and geographical placement wants to kill other.
All these talks of unity are nothing more than fantasy and pipe dreams.Until and unless we are attacked by a alien race tomorrow,we are not going to unite.

 

[Bong]

Afghanistan and Bangladesh do not speak this language.. And definitely, Dravidian parties will never accept a solution like this (Even I wont). Remember Bengali was the reason for breaking of Pakistan. This will bound to fail.. India is a diverse country. We need to respect its diversity .

Kya Bhai, Hum sab kuch samajh te hey. South people couldnt learn it. But hum Bangladesh me se sikh gya.

Those bollywood movies and serials can do wonders

 

[acid rain]

and to kill that man, it took 35+ western bloc militaries plus puppets ( ikhwaan/taliban/qaeda etc )...

besides, his friends were nelson mandela, hugo chavez and carlos... call them loons too.

and it was russia which provided satellite imagery to disprove bbc and white house claims that "gaddafi was killing civilians, including women and children".

go say your theories to vladimir putin...

you are not the brightest among humans.




there come the anti-human brigade of video-game-playing college boys...



i am.



modern south asian culture is not terribly a gentle and thinking culture... change must be brought by revolution, by whichever means...

Show me one statement from mandela in favor of the idiot?.

 

[jamahir]

I was about to agree with your until i found that you are proposing rival of Greater Punjab. Proposal rejected

1. the punjabi legend of "sohni-mahiwal" was made into a hindi film, "sohni mahiwal", with the heroine ( poonam dhillon ) and the hero ( sunny deol ) being actual punjabis... and the real mahiwal from the legend is not even punjabi... he was izzat baig from bukhara ( present uzbekistan )...

2. the song by bulleh shah, "bullah ki jaana main kaun", was some years ago sung by rabbi shergill ( punjabi ) and was received well among hindi speakers and understanders in india... beautiful words and sung so well...

so, there is no cause for concern... all the important parts of punjabi culture can be easily transferred into hindi.

 

[FaujHistorian]

A confederation between "India-Pak-BD" is the way to go

ANP socialist minister of Pakistan Ghulam Ahmed Bilour ,had suggested this , & I support it

Bilour proposes confederation with India

Nothing new.

Mission plan in 1946 was pretty much what you state.

Please study history.

And figure out who rejected it, and why?

 

[jamahir]

* What kind of idiot would believe that Iqbal was a socialist?

1. Iqbal Karl Marx and Socialism Lastupdate:- Mon, 14 Mar 2011 18:30:00 GMT GreaterKashmir.com

"However, his interest in the socialist movement of Bolshevik Russia was immense, because he regarded it as a storm that swept away all the foul airs in the atmosphere. He was, perhaps, the first Urdu poet of Asia to greet the victory of the great October socialist Revolution in Russia. When soviet power was installed in Russia, Iqbal wrote an Urdu poem under the caption: “Sarmaya wa Mihnat” (Capital and Labour). In this poem he exhorted the working people of the east and the west, with the dawn of a new social order, to follow the soviet revolution and cut off the chains of capitalism."

2. ISLAMIC SOCIALISM AND IQBAL

"
What is Admiyat? Respect for man!

Learn to appreciate the true worth of man;

The man of love learns the ways of God

And is benevolent alike to the believer and the unbelieve:

Welcome faith and unfaith alike to the heart!

If the heart flees from the heart, woe betide the heart!

The heart is, no doubt, shut in this prison-house of clay.

But the entire Universe is the domain of heart[6]"

3. i have been reading english translation of "shikwa, jawaab-e-shikwa"...

are you as a moderator allowed to be rude and disrespectful to someone like me??

* Gaddafi was mentally unstable, what does that say about your sanity after this 'genius' idea?

your word against 95 percent of libyans, and governments and peoples of russia, syria, venezuela, cuba, north korea, zimbabwe... the peoples of africa... heroes like nelson mandela and carlos... and your word against mine.

muammar gaddafi was other fine things too but i won't go off-topic...

 

[cloud_9]

1. the punjabi legend of "sohni-mahiwal" was made into a hindi film, "sohni mahiwal", with the heroine ( poonam dhillon ) and the hero ( sunny deol ) being actual punjabis... and the real mahiwal from the legend is not even punjabi... he was izzat baig from bukhara ( present uzbekistan )...

2. the song by bulleh shah, "bullah ki jaana main kaun", was some years ago sung by rabbi shergill ( punjabi ) and was received well among hindi speakers and understanders in india... beautiful words and sung so well...

so, there is no cause for concern... all the important parts of punjabi culture can be easily transferred into hindi.

LOL! Another expert on Punjabi culture.
Sohni-Mahiwal is all about the sacrifice of Sohni and lastly both Balkh and Bukhara were culturally well integrated with NW India.

If we go by your logic she was Pakistani.

 

[jamahir]

LOL! Another expert on Punjabi culture.
Sohni-Mahiwal is all about the sacrifice of Sohni and lastly both Balkh and Bukhara were culturally well integrated with NW India.

what about khiva... does the below structure look "integrated" with north-west india or was nw india influenced by turkic, arab and irani cultures??

your point has nothing to do with what i was telling "love icon"...

If we go by your logic she was Pakistani.

are you pro-india or pro-human??

Show me one statement from mandela in favor of the idiot?.

1. Mandela and Gaddafi: the myth of the Saint and the Mad Dog - English pravda.ru

"Right upon his release from prison, after more than 27 years behind bars, Mandela broke the UN embargo and paid a visit to the Libyan capital of Tripoli, where he declared: "My delegation and I are overjoyed with the invitation from the Brother Guide [Muammar Gaddafi], to visit the Great Popular and Socialist Arab Libyan Jamahiriya. I have been waiting impatiently ever since we received the invitation. I would like to remind you that the first time I came here, in 1962, the country was in a very different state of affairs. One could not but be struck by the sights of poverty from the moment of arrival, with all of its usual corollaries: hunger, illness, lack of housing and of health-care facilities, etc. Anger and revolt could be read in those days on the faces of everyone."

2. please do read about the "world mathaba project" of the libyan jamahiriya ( on google books ), and the funding/training/political-support by libya of most true revolutionary groups in the world... including "african national congress" ( anc ) of nelson mandela...

3. sincerely, you don't have any real knowledge of political history and political present... please do dedicate to read, and drink cups of tea with your friends in discussion.

 

[AbidM]

We already have SAARC to unite us... Why would we want anymore.

 

[jamahir]

Countries will be more decentralized. These giant entities and division of cities will be a good option.

that very thing is mentioned in the libyan "green book" ( The Green Book - I )... section "popular congresses and people's committees".

decentralized and direct-democracy was how libya was organized until 2011...

We already have SAARC to unite us... Why would we want anymore.

saarc is a grouping of nations... each of which follows a different political ideology... each of which is enemy to each other... each of which will never progress unless they discard nationalism...

Well, I ain't no video game college boy. Trust me, you are going down a dangerous path.

so, i am to be "deleted" because i proposed uniting people... people who were involved in immature fighting??

so, who must be the "deletor"... raw, ib, mossad, cia??