Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The tone seems quite qualified to me. The general doesn't say whether it's smugglers or gov't action - and my interpretation is that he thinks it's more likely to be smuggling of weapons by non-government actors and aggressive patrolling of the sort the U.S. engaged in when it was afraid of Pancho Villa - but before Pershing went chasing after him.

Did you even read the interview?

“They are conducting intelligence operations,” he said, adding that the Qods Force was “playing games on both sides [of the Afghan-Pakistan border] that are very dangerous.”

The Qods Force was “probably” doing things in Afghanistan that were getting coalition troops killed, including providing weapons to insurgents and training the Taliban, he said.

Nonetheless, the Qods Force was still a malevolent force in Afghanistan, Flynn stressed. “The IRGC Qods Force is an organization that needs to be checked at the door,” he said. “And if the country of Iran wants to act responsibly on the world stage they need to take that organization, dismantle it and get it to quit acting like a nation-state-backed terrorist organization.”

Those are some very direct accusations directed at the Iranians, nothing 'qualified' here.

What makes you think you would allow yourselves to perceive such a thing when it happens? You did not even dispute my point that the Indians are (given the proofs) no more culpable than the Chinese.

Why ask us whether we can perceive such a thing when neither the US nor India have shown any indication to stop unsubstantiated blame games? Focus on the latter issue first.

Think carefully about this. Think about how many people who have lived under Pakistani rule choose to flee or rebel rather than submit to rule they consider unjust. Are you setting an example that would give people confidence in Pakistan's ruling class?

About as much as India I suppose - lets see - Khalistan, the entire North East currently under the Sway of Maoists.

On the US side, the majority was able to suppress armed rebellion against slavery, segregation and racial discrimination through force - though there still have been riots.

A lot of nations have 'citizens the rebel' due to unhappiness with government policies, Pakistan is not alone here. In any case, fail to see the point of your last paragraph here.

 

[Naradmuni]

this is all good, let them talk, it shows indian logic, they are refuting something - they dont know what this something is but they are still refuting it.

Well logic is, if pakistan really has something concrete and conclusive against Indian involvemnet, then why is Pakistan briefing its own media instead of briefing the UNSC. Given the quality of evidence gathered, perhaps pak media may buy GOP's allegations, apparently the UNSC and the world may not.

If pakistan is so sure of its evidence then it should launch a dilpomatic offensive and share it with the entire world community, like India did. And not to leave the matter to be sorted out by people like you and me, on public forums.

This whole act is nothing but a typical India card played by pakistani bosses to unite its people and malign the image of the "holy warriors" in the minds of its own people and who otherwise carry enormous sympathy in people.

Remember nothing unites the otherwise divided pakistani society as India(threat) does.

By briefing its home media about alleged Indian involvement and not the diplomatic community, what can be concluded from this?

Furthermore when recently pakistan accused India of funding the taliban, who if you remember was instrumental along with ISI in hijacking of Indian airliner, I think pakistan does not deserve any more credibility hereon, in any of its future allegations. India funding the pak-created taliban is equivalent to alleging pakistan funding the mukti-bahini in 1971.

 

[Goodperson]

India funding the pak-created taliban is equivalent to alleging pakistan funding the mukti-bahini in 1971.

Interesting !!! that will mean Pakistan can go to any extent just to blame India for its misdeeds.

 

[SMC]

Narad, you're implying Pakistan can never be right and thus India can never sponser terrorism while india is always right. Take your bullshit to BR.

Additionally, this is pure bullshit:

India funding the pak-created taliban is equivalent to alleging pakistan funding the mukti-bahini in 1971.

Please, TTP is not Pakistan created and in fact indian created. They are different from other Taliban in that their target is Pakistani state and Pakistan in general and that is a perfect terrorist outfit for india to use to denuclearize Pakistan.

 

[Goodperson]

Please, TTP is not Pakistan created and in fact indian created. They are different from other Taliban in that their target is Pakistani state and Pakistan in general and that is a perfect terrorist outfit for india to use to denuclearize Pakistan.

TTP is India created ? Thats similar to allegation that mukti-bahini was Pakistan created.

 

[Naradmuni]

Narad, you're implying Pakistan can never be right and thus India can never sponser terrorism while india is always right. Take your bullshit to BR.

Additionally, this is pure bullshit:



Please, TTP is not Pakistan created and in fact indian created. They are different from other Taliban in that their target is Pakistani state and Pakistan in general and that is a perfect terrorist outfit for india to use to denuclearize Pakistan.

Ahsan, first of all I resent your tone.

Narad, you're implying Pakistan can never be right and thus India can never sponser terrorism while india is always right.

I never said that. My opinion is India may support BLA, and other separatist groups etc but ceratinly would not support the radical taliban. you know talibans history, dont you?? I need not elaborate on that.

Dont you know, India is enemy number 2 for taliban. didnt you hear the rhetoric of your hakimulla that after he is done with pak he would eventually target India. If India had so much crush over taliban then may be instead of sheltering northern alliance govt in exile, It would had open taliban consulates in New Delhi, (as Islamabad did in the past). My point is not "BS". Simply because you have no better argument to offer, does not allow you to make discourteous remarks on others.

Please, TTP is not Pakistan created and in fact indian created. They are different from other Taliban in that their target is Pakistani state and Pakistan in general and that is a perfect terrorist outfit for india to use to denuclearize Pakistan.

My friend, had I been living in fools paradise, I would be having a similar opinion as you have here. Amusingly, what is this "other taliban"?? care to explain please? Is this the one which General Kiyani termed as strategic assets of pakistan??

And yes your theory makes sense, that taliban is india's creation and will eventually be used for stealing pakistans nuclear weapons, only as long as the listener is a Zaid hamid fan. (or maybe Zaid hamid himself )

Please, TTP is not Pakistan created and in fact indian created. They are different from other Taliban

Well, I wonder what makes the Americans think that the TTP is the group of flushed out pashtun radicals of Afghanistan who have been patronized by the local tribals in pakistan and who are mad at pakistan for launching attacks over them at America's insistance, and therefore attacking pakistan as a response to its millitary offensive in SW. Now doesent it makes sense? Certainly your version involving India in this is "interesting" but far away from reality.

Take your bullshit to BR.

your highness !!

 

[SMC]

TTP is India created ? Thats similar to allegation that mukti-bahini was Pakistan created.

You didn't read rest of what I said did you? Stop yapping like a kid.

 

[SMC]

I never said that. My opinion is India may support BLA, chotta rajan etc but would not support taliban. you know talibans history, dont you?? I need not elaborate on that.

Dont you know, India is enemy number 2 for taliban. didnt you hear the rhetoric of your hakimulla that after he is done with pak he would eventually target India. If India had so much crush over taliban then may be instead of sheltering northern alliance govt in exile. It would have open taliban consulates in New Delhi. My point is not BS. Simply because you have no better argument to offer, does not allow you to make discourteous remarks on others.

My argument, something which is true and cannot be denied, is something you're evading and repeating what you stated previously. I have stated this numerous times and you indians dont see to get it across your thick skulls.

Let me try this again, in bold this time.

TTP's target is not US, or India, or Afghanistan. It's target is Pakistan - the Pakistani state and Pakistan in general. Their aims are not the same as Afghan Taliban. They are not fighting NATO/US. They are fighting Pakistan. Thus they are a perfect entity for india to use in its aim to denuclearize Pakistan. What Hakimullah said is only to get more popularity in Pakistan. They said that Taliban do not bomb mosques, or were not involved in the Peshawar blast that killed 120 people. They have shown no actual intent on attacking india and are only saying words.

My friend, had I been living in fools paradise, I would be having a similar opinion as you have here. Amusingly, what is this "other taliban"?? care to explain please? Is this the one which General Kiyani terms as strategic assets of pakistan??

Read above.

Well, I wonder what makes the Americans think that the TTP is the group of flushed out pashtun radicals of Afghanistan who have been patronized by the local tribals and who are attacking pakistan only because of pakistans offensive in SW. Certainly your version is "interesting" but far away from reality.

I do not quite understand what you're saying here. Maybe put it in better words.

 

[SMC]

This argument by indians of TTP being enemy of india is so old and so naive that I have to facepalm every time an indian states that same argument again and again and cannot grasp what I stated in my last post.

 

[Hulk]

Whatever proof are being claimed needs to be taken to its logical conclusion.
Here is the following steps which can take us to conclusion
1) Collect all proofs.
2) Provide these proofs to India and ask for explanation.
3) Let India respond.
After which I will take my stand, I am open to anything.
Alternatively go to UN and get India branded.

I am seeing how quickly things have taken a u turn. India is saying the same thing for last 20 years and Pakistan was saying give us proof this is not enough and that is not sufficient. Now I want to see how good they are at presenting the proofs and convincing the world.

The point I made sometime back is that it is not easy to prove anything conclusively when talking about third countries involvement.

Pakistan used this weakness to deny its involvement of terrorism in India.
Like a good Pakistani you guys will like to believe what your government is saying and so do us Indians. I heard Manmohan Singh say we are not in business of exporting terrorism. I believe him unless proven otherwise.

I also see between India an Pakistan people are highly biased and little objective. Even after GOP has accepted 26/11 was planned in Pakistan still memeber's here keep on refuting it. The essence is, if you do not corporate with us when it was our time, what do you expect us to do. Have same yard stick. As per my yard stick, I will favor the truth, if you can prove we are Involved I will accept it, at the moment nothing is proved.
And last, if Pakistan does not hand over evidence to India or UN or whatever they choose everyone should know the truth.

 

[SMC]

I think what you're saying is fair, however what we see on GoP side is their unwillingness to tackle this even though army is confident of the evidence being irrefutable. What many of us feel is that this is due US pressure because it is not in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence nor it is in their interests if they admit the indian involvement. AM has stated some examples in the past of Israel where what US in UNSC with regards to Israel war crimes did what was in its interests even though what they were doing was wrong, so it's something definitely possible and even likely. Add to that the drone government we have right now.

 

[Hulk]

I think what you're saying is fair, however what we see on GoP side is their unwillingness to tackle this even though army is confident of the evidence being irrefutable. What many of us feel is that this is due US pressure because it is not in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence nor it is in their interests if they admit the indian involvement. AM has stated some examples in the past of Israel where what US in UNSC with regards to Israel war crimes did what was in its interests even though what they were doing was wrong, so it's something definitely possible and even likely. Add to that the drone government we have right now.

I understand your position, but I do not buy this argument that under US pressure Pakistan will not give evidence of Indian involvement.
First US and Israel relation are at different level and India is not in same position, second your GOP is not as weak as you guys are telling me.
Also considering that you guys believe on one statement from Army, in that case our Army also gives 100 statements in past decade, so we can also create our own story. We also believe in our Army. So there is no excuse of not providing evidence and if you really cannot do it then no point even talking if your country is so weak.

 

[SMC]

It's not so much the strength of US-India relations as whether Pakistan going public with the evidence is in their interests.

The government is weak, make no bones about that. They pretty much take orders from Washington.

As for your last statement, fair enough, however we feel we have reason to believe in the indian involvement in terrorism.

 

[Hulk]

It's not so much the strength of US-India relations as whether Pakistan going public with the evidence is in their interests.

The government is weak, make no bones about that. They pretty much take orders from Washington.

As for your last statement, fair enough, however we feel we have reason to believe in the indian involvement in terrorism.

Can you clarify why it is not in their interest. Why should they bother. You can have you belief and so does Indians have their belief's and we had better evidence.

Even after news channel found evidence of Kasab being Pakistani, GOP did not admit. IMO that is enough to believe either they were involved or they did not want to help. It is not possible after providing address of your citizen a government cannot validate it in 24 hrs. So we have belief's on both sides and apart from Pakistan no one has ever blamed India. For that matter our record is quit clean(on terrorism), minus a little bit here and there.

 

[Naradmuni]

I do not quite understand what you're saying here. Maybe put it in better words.

FYKI,
Consider FBI, CIA, Pentagon, India, UN, world community etc on one hand having the opinion that
TTP is: 1) a group of flushed out pashtun radicals of Afghanistan 2)who have been patronized by the local tribals in pakistan 3)who are mad at pakistan for launching attacks over them at America's insistance, and 4) who are therefore attacking pakistan as a response to its millitary offensive in SW.

On the other hand, is your theory that TTP is created by India in order to denulcearise Pakistan.

Which one makes more sense?? Certainly your version is "interesting" but far away from reality. Unless you back your claim with facts and not hypothetical declarations (TTP attacks only pakistan so it must be funded by Indians, etc)

And your lame excuse that TTP is India created simply because it attacks Pakistani targets does not hold any merit as there are other players too like Israel who are keen to snatch away your nukes. And your argument is based upon a hypothesis that TTP could be a perfect entity for india to use in its aim to denuclearize Pakistan. You need to back this by proof and not by highlighting it in bold fonts

My friend, pakistan seriously needs to get out of its India obsession.