Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Maxpane]

Most of 5th Gen fighters appears to be same with not much changes in appearance.

agree sir but i think it would be hybrid form of fc 31 and j 20

 

[The Eagle]

Hybrid of J-22 and J-31

agree sir but i think it would be hybrid form of fc 31 and j 20

Could be or may turn out to be a presentation concept for the purpose as per official RIAT 2019 theme.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

It seems more likely PAF has adopted the TFX design that came up as runner up. Look at the middle one with canard delta configuration.

hybrid form of j20 and fc 31?

Well currently its been painted on the tail of one of the PAF C130B participating in RIAT 2019 so can be treated as Official Concept Design.



Had another look and found that there are no horizontal stabilizers but front canards like J-20 with FC-31 wing design.

Could be or may turn out to be a presentation concept for the purpose as per official RIAT 2019 theme.

@The Eagle compare these images

 

[Path-Finder]

A clearer picture of Pakistan FGFA concept painted on tail of one of the PAF C130B visiting RIAT 2019.

Yeah, shows canards and appears to be dual engine. I found that mix of China & Turkey concept.

I guess alot has been said without saying anything.

 

[Syed1.]

Man this has got me excitedddddddddd...... Inshallah soon we will see this bird in the air



I see alot of influences of the JF-17 in AZM.... I'm guessing the PAF is using the lessons learnt from the Thunder program.

 

[The Eagle]

It seems more likely PAF has adopted the TFX design that came up as runner up. Look at the middle one with canard delta configuration.
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@The Eagle compare these images

Single Engine Canard Delta concept does matches what we read earlier about Project AZM as a single engine requirement. However, only the new concept on Tail, says the dual engine possibility. Otherwise, I do agree that T-FX Delta Canard design is too close in over all aspect. That actually reminds me about Alan Warnes tweet saying that Chairman PAC Kamra AM Ahmer Shahzad said that "Turkey's T-FX is in line with what the PAF want".

So a single Engine evolution may turn out to be NGF class (a complementary to existing Gen fleet) while a possible dual engine (like that one Tail Art) may turn out to AZM (FGFA). I have these possibilities for further discussion and possible outcome from any member so the same may not be treated as some kind of claim or official standing.

Regards,

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Head looks like J20, wings like J-31, Body Looks like a hybrid of multiple FGFA's, especially Yf-23 to a large extent considering the blocky spine above the engines. Shahid Raza pointed out the uncanny similarity between this and Northrop's Naval NATF YF-23 proposal

 

[Path-Finder]

Personally I think its about time that a 2 engine plane was inducted or considered.

 

[Syed1.]

Does it seem like single seater or dual?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Single Engine Canard Delta concept does matches what we read earlier about Project AZM as a single engine requirement. However, only the new concept on Tail, says the dual engine possibility. Otherwise, I do agree that T-FX Delta Canard design is too close in over all aspect. That actually reminds me about Alan Warnes tweet saying that Chairman PAC Kamra AM Ahmer Shahzad said that "Turkey's T-FX is in line with what the PAF want".

So a single Engine evolution may turn out to be NGF class (a complementary to existing Gen fleet) while a possible dual engine (like that one Tail Art) may turn out to AZM (FGFA). I have these possibilities for further discussion and possible outcome from any member so the same may not be treated as some kind of claim or official standing.

Regards,

Maybe the duel engine concept is because of engine limitations. At present PAF can not procure any engine capable of producing higher thrust that is required for JF-17's. At present only USA can provide adequate engines but they will never do it as this will kill their products. If we could contact Canadians then they might a engine but the technology is very old. (AVRO Project had Canadian Power Plants designed to provide speeds of over MACH 2).

A few years back when this picture first came out my personal opinion was that PAF would buy TFX from turkey with duel engines and purchase the rights for developing the single engine design as fifth generation of JF-17 in the shape the 3rd design, This concept came in my mind considering what F-15 and F-16 achieved over the years with various commonalities they shared among them.

 

[Syed1.]

Maybe the duel engine concept is because of engine limitations. At present PAF can not procure any engine capable of producing higher thrust that is required for JF-17's. At present only USA can provide adequate engines but they will never do it as this will kill their products. If we could contact Canadians then they might a engine but the technology is very old. (AVRO Project had Canadian Power Plants designed to provide speeds of over MACH 2).

A few years back when this picture first came out my personal opinion was that PAF would buy TFX from turkey with duel engines and purchase the rights for developing the single engine design as fifth generation of JF-17 in the shape the 3rd design, This concept came in my mind considering what F-15 and F-16 achieved over the years with various commonalities they shared among them.

Humour a layman like me for a second..... imagine in AZM we use the same engine as JF-17 but two of them, while keeping the overall weight of the jet about the same (or slightly higher because of second engine) will it not mean that the jet will be able to go significantly faster?

 

[The Eagle]

Maybe the duel engine concept is because of engine limitations. At present PAF can not procure any engine capable of producing higher thrust that is required for JF-17's. At present only USA can provide adequate engines but they will never do it as this will kill their products. If we could contact Canadians then they might a engine but the technology is very old. (AVRO Project had Canadian Power Plants designed to provide speeds of over MACH 2).

A few years back when this picture first came out my personal opinion was that PAF would buy TFX from turkey with duel engines and purchase the rights for developing the single engine design as fifth generation of JF-17 in the shape the 3rd design, This concept came in my mind considering what F-15 and F-16 achieved over the years with various commonalities they shared among them.

Most of details are unknown and will never make it to public domain until & unless, we see a PT flying. However, interests & possibilities are being told and sometimes guessed through existing details. As far as this concept appeared, seems like we are looking at two birds at the same time. A 5th Gen FGFA & an NGF to compliment existing 4th Gen fleet, as per requirement to bridge the gap between 4th to 5th Gen.

Chairman PAC Kamra gave the idea as what it may looks like and that pretty much resembles with the picture from C-130B Tail Art. A single engine T-FX with Canard Delta does exist and we are here looking at dual engine.

Furthermore, most of 5th Gen designs may match to each other to the most extent due to nature/math/limitations per existing Tech. Call it a hybrid design or a new one, but will not be like existing 5th Gen planes definitely.

Does it seem like single seater or dual?

Single seat configuration.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Humour a layman like me for a second..... imagine in AZM we use the same engine as JF-17 but two of them, while keeping the overall weight of the jet about the same (or slightly higher because of second engine) will it not mean that the jet will be able to go significantly faster?

What you are saying would require a complete redesign i.e a completely new aircraft. With the similar amount of research and man hours one can design a fifth gen aircraft. Hence no point in continuing with twin engined JF-17. This was required in the late 80's early 90's but at that time PAF was not looking for a multi engined aircraft rather towards JF-17.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Most of details are unknown and will never make it to public domain until & unless, we see a PT flying. However, interests & possibilities are being told and sometimes guessed through existing details. As far as this concept appeared, seems like we are looking at two birds at the same time. A 5th Gen FGFA & an NGF to compliment existing 4th Gen fleet, as per requirement to bridge the gap between 4th to 5th Gen.

Chairman PAC Kamra gave the idea as what it may looks like and that pretty much resembles with the picture from C-130B Tail Art. A single engine T-FX with Canard Delta does exist and we are here looking at dual engine.

Furthermore, most of 5th Gen designs may match to each other to the most extent due to nature/math/limitations per existing Tech. Call it a hybrid design or a new one, but will not be like existing 5th Gen planes definitely.



Single seat configuration.

PAF would soon be looking towards 6th gen aircraft as AI is growing at an exponential pace. 4Gen aircraft would be flying along without pilots rather as drones taking on targets that are heavily defended with the help of 5th and 6th generation aircraft withing next 15-20 years. Hence it seems like to me that PAF wants to design something that can be easily upgraded to 6th generation hence both 5gen FGFA and NGF are one and the same project.

Moreover PAF will require new advance trainers that are capable to train FGFA pilots in the near future as well. Keeping the budget limitations it is highly unlikely PAF would try to board multiple projects simultaneously.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Maybe the duel engine concept is because of engine limitations. At present PAF can not procure any engine capable of producing higher thrust that is required for JF-17's. At present only USA can provide adequate engines but they will never do it as this will kill their products. If we could contact Canadians then they might a engine but the technology is very old. (AVRO Project had Canadian Power Plants designed to provide speeds of over MACH 2).

A few years back when this picture first came out my personal opinion was that PAF would buy TFX from turkey with duel engines and purchase the rights for developing the single engine design as fifth generation of JF-17 in the shape the 3rd design, This concept came in my mind considering what F-15 and F-16 achieved over the years with various commonalities they shared among them.

but if canadian engine can be brought with full technology, over time we can make powerful variants like Chinese do. This will kick start engine develop domestically too.