Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

A few days ago a member claimed that an F22 and F35 can be detected.

What posters don't understand is that being detected is not the same as getting a target lock on the missile.

So---you may get a visual on the F22 and the F35---but to get a missile lock---it is a different story---.

 

[Armchair]

Hi,

A few days ago a member claimed that an F22 and F35 can be detected.

What posters don't understand is that being detected is not the same as getting a target lock on the missile.

So---you may get a visual on the F22 and the F35---but to get a missile lock---it is a different story---.

The thing with IRSTs is that they are not very good at scanning. But if they can get a general direction, then they can get you the target. But they are not particularly good at ranging. So perhaps one needs a fusion of sensors against stealth targets. IR / RF / Laser.

Some other ideas:

1. Lasers are here and they don't need nuclear reactors. They are already fielded by Russia and the US. The tech is there and even small countries with some investment can get there. Maybe @Oscar knows about this. An interesting aspect about laser use - even if not used for shooting down aircraft, they can act as DEW and perhaps in even degrading stealth.

So in a scenario, you could get a general location of a stealth craft using low frequency radars, use an IRST to get direction, use a laser to both get range and as DEW and anti-stealth.

2. Finally you could throw in LRSAMs that pack tiny ball bearings and don't need a direct hit. Using approximate data they can blow up an area in the sky, damaging if not destroying stealth aircraft, degrading their stealth.

3. There is no stealth out there that works against space based radars. Space-based radars expose the top profile of an aircraft, the most unstealthy part.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The thing with IRSTs is that they are not very good at scanning. But if they can get a general direction, then they can get you the target. But they are not particularly good at ranging. So perhaps one needs a fusion of sensors against stealth targets. IR / RF / Laser.

Some other ideas:

1. Lasers are here and they don't need nuclear reactors. They are already fielded by Russia and the US. The tech is there and even small countries with some investment can get there. Maybe @Oscar knows about this. An interesting aspect about laser use - even if not used for shooting down aircraft, they can act as DEW and perhaps in even degrading stealth.

So in a scenario, you could get a general location of a stealth craft using low frequency radars, use an IRST to get direction, use a laser to both get range and as DEW and anti-stealth.

2. Finally you could throw in LRSAMs that pack tiny ball bearings and don't need a direct hit. Using approximate data they can blow up an area in the sky, damaging if not destroying stealth aircraft, degrading their stealth.

3. There is no stealth out there that works against space based radars. Space-based radars expose the top profile of an aircraft, the most unstealthy part.

first of the main problem of laser is slight weather changes can degrade laser like significantly light rain etc etc, That's US cancel their long range ABL (AIR BORNE LASER) and those system that you are referring to short range/point defense against anti ship missiles on ships @Armchair

 

[Armchair]

first of the main problem of laser is slight weather changes can degrade laser like significantly light rain etc etc, That's US cancel their long range ABL (AIR BORNE LASER) and those system that you are referring to short range/point defense against anti ship missiles on ships @Armchair

Hi, how old are you?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi, how old are you?

Why you asking that question @Armchair ???

Hi, how old are you?

and do research before you post @Armchair

 

[帅的一匹]

laser is a better option in outer space.

 

[Armchair]

laser is a better option in outer space.

I've heard China has a very advanced laser program, even one that dazzles US spy satellites. Are those really operational? Are they ground based or space based?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ers-missiles-weapons-destroy-usa-surveillance

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/china-uses-laser-technology-to-blind-us-satellites.132445/

https://www.wired.com/2009/11/is-this-chinas-anti-satellite-laser-weapon-site/

 

[帅的一匹]

I've heard China has a very advanced laser program, even one that dazzles US spy satellites. Are those really operational? Are they ground based or space based?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ers-missiles-weapons-destroy-usa-surveillance

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/china-uses-laser-technology-to-blind-us-satellites.132445/

https://www.wired.com/2009/11/is-this-chinas-anti-satellite-laser-weapon-site/

Ground base.

 

[enroger]

first of the main problem of laser is slight weather changes can degrade laser like significantly light rain etc etc, That's US cancel their long range ABL (AIR BORNE LASER) and those system that you are referring to short range/point defense against anti ship missiles on ships @Armchair

Hard kill laser might be too early to say here, but his idea about using laser range finder in conjunction with irst/eodas is a valid one, using laser to ping every suspicious contact from radar or IR is a good way to keep track of stealth planes.
Current LO design can't be all aspect LO, there are certain angles where there is large rcs, therefore a moving stealth plane might shows up on radar as intermittent blips, radar operator might be able to infer there are stealth flying in that area but cannot track it, laser might be the answer to this problem.

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

A few days ago a member claimed that an F22 and F35 can be detected.

What posters don't understand is that being detected is not the same as getting a target lock on the missile.

So---you may get a visual on the F22 and the F35---but to get a missile lock---it is a different story---.

if lock on is impossible then why not projects like S400 and HQ9 latest variants being scrapped.

 

[帅的一匹]

if lock on is impossible then why not projects like S400 and HQ9 latest variants being scrapped.

Cause you have other 4th generation fighter to deal with.

 

[CHI RULES]

Cause you have other 4th generation fighter to deal with.

Sir I meant to say that S400 and HQ9 variants with stealth detection radars/sensors may lock on 5th gen jets at longer distances may be in range of 90-100 km.

 

[帅的一匹]

Sir I meant to say that S400 and HQ9 variants with stealth detection radars/sensors may lock on 5th gen jets at longer distances may be in range of 90-100 km.

Maybe, I'm not sure.

 

[MastanKhan]

if lock on is impossible then why not projects like S400 and HQ9 latest variants being scrapped.

Hi

It is because one day a cure would be found to get a lock on the stealth aircraft. Guidance systems would be improved---proximity sensors would improve---the new programming would be input into the existing systems to counter stealth---.

But then there are more aircraft to fight that are not stealth.

The thing with IRSTs is that they are not very good at scanning. But if they can get a general direction, then they can get you the target. But they are not particularly good at ranging. So perhaps one needs a fusion of sensors against stealth targets. IR / RF / Laser.

Some other ideas:

1. Lasers are here and they don't need nuclear reactors. They are already fielded by Russia and the US. The tech is there and even small countries with some investment can get there. Maybe @Oscar knows about this. An interesting aspect about laser use - even if not used for shooting down aircraft, they can act as DEW and perhaps in even degrading stealth.

So in a scenario, you could get a general location of a stealth craft using low frequency radars, use an IRST to get direction, use a laser to both get range and as DEW and anti-stealth.

2. Finally you could throw in LRSAMs that pack tiny ball bearings and don't need a direct hit. Using approximate data they can blow up an area in the sky, damaging if not destroying stealth aircraft, degrading their stealth.

3. There is no stealth out there that works against space based radars. Space-based radars expose the top profile of an aircraft, the most unstealthy part.

Hi,

While you are doing all that---the stealth aircraft already has your measure and has taken your assets out---.

Missiles with proximity sensors are there---.

Could a missile have a picture memory of the aircraft---?

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir I meant to say that S400 and HQ9 variants with stealth detection radars/sensors may lock on 5th gen jets at longer distances may be in range of 90-100 km.

Hi,

By that time enemy HARM missiles would have taken out the S400 batterires.