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Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you the design of the Azm project (rumor). This picture that you view here, is your Azm 5th generation stealth fighter. It appears to look like a mini-J-20. Even has tiny canards positioned like a Rafale, closer to the main wing.
According to a well connected PAF source,

''I can't believe that the design could be finalised within three months of the announcement of the project. And I don't see how PAF Academy figures out in the design.''
 
According to a well connected PAF source,

''I can't believe that the design could be finalised within three months of the announcement of the project. And I don't see how PAF Academy figures out in the design.''
Another rumour? [emoji15] [emoji15]
 
According to a well connected PAF source,

''I can't believe that the design could be finalised within three months of the announcement of the project. And I don't see how PAF Academy figures out in the design.''

Hahah.

Well. ahem.

According to my "secret" "well-connected" PAF source, PAF is full of surprises, and does many things before it is known.

PS: You guys do know that I've posted this as a joke? Sometimes sarcasm is lost over the internet.
 
According to a well connected PAF source,

''I can't believe that the design could be finalised within three months of the announcement of the project. And I don't see how PAF Academy figures out in the design.''


It will be very close to F22 in appearance. And engine choice might shock few. We are looking at 7-8 years before the first prototype will fly.
 
According to a well connected PAF source,

''I can't believe that the design could be finalised within three months of the announcement of the project. And I don't see how PAF Academy figures out in the design.''
It will be super quick with China's input.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you the design of the Azm project (rumor). This picture that you view here, is your Azm 5th generation stealth fighter. It appears to look like a mini-J-20. Even has tiny canards positioned like a Rafale, closer to the main wing.

Fanart or not, this layout does make a certain amount of sense. If V-tail provide elevon input then this would be like a tri-plane design like Su-30SM/MKI, should be pretty maneuverable. V-tail completely aft of main wing should also provide great high-alpha stability. I believe Saab is going for a similar design.

The difference with J-20 would be its close couple canards versus J-20 canards+LERX. Aspect ratio is also greater than J-20, suggesting a trade-off in speed for more maneuverability.
 
Fanart or not, this layout does make a certain amount of sense. If V-tail provide elevon input then this would be like a tri-plane design like Su-30SM/MKI, should be pretty maneuverable. V-tail completely aft of main wing should also provide great high-alpha stability. I believe Saab is going for a similar design.

The difference with J-20 would be its close couple canards versus J-20 canards+LERX. Aspect ratio is also greater than J-20, suggesting a trade-off in speed for more maneuverability.

I believe there is a possibility this fan art is made by people who may actually know something. Similar to the hints that are dropped via abstract art in Chinese milavia.

Either way, thank you for your post. That was the sane analysis I was looking for. Here are the facts, as I see them:

1. Pakistan will work with Chengdu on the Azm project similar to the JF-17 project, except it won't be "joint" but a Pakistan specific project.

2. Chengdu is known for delta canards and probably already had a basic design to compete with the J-31.

3. Pakistan has never liked the AL-31 series because of the long spool-up time. The size of a twin AL-31 class engines may not be appropriate for Pakistan's limited area.

4. An RD-93 class engine makes a lot more sense and could have the potential for commonality. A twin on this account would fit in perfectly with Pakistan's needs and what Chengdu has to offer as a competition to J-31.

5. Pakistan has never liked trading range and speed for maneuverability. It never bought the J-8s or the JH-7s. So by the looks of this plane, it fits exactly that - a more maneuverable, smaller J-20 with minor design improvements.

6. With the V-tail and what looks like thrust vectoring, a small, close-coupled canard can do the job. The close-coupling also means that an LERX is redundant, as such a configuration essentially does the same thing for as a LERX.

7. A small canard has the possibility of being dielectric. i.e. invisible to radar if made with a tempered glass - plastic - epoxy substrate. This can have tensile strengths of about 120 - 140. Enough for a small canard but nothing too big. Close coupling would also lower the structural stress on such a design.

8. The front look is almost a copy of the J-20. That is a very interesting design choice - essentially it seems to say - why mess with something that works?

9. It seems to be a traditional stealth 5th gen. I was batting for recessed and conformally located weapons carriage. What this implies is that the engines aren't RD-93 based. As an RD-93 does not have enough power to take on such an airframe, you'd end up with horrid performance.

10. It makes no sense for it to be a twin steater as suggested in the diagram. But abstract fan art was never meant to be a perfect duplication effort.
 
I believe there is a possibility this fan art is made by people who may actually know something. Similar to the hints that are dropped via abstract art in Chinese milavia.

Either way, thank you for your post. That was the sane analysis I was looking for. Here are the facts, as I see them:

1. Pakistan will work with Chengdu on the Azm project similar to the JF-17 project, except it won't be "joint" but a Pakistan specific project.

2. Chengdu is known for delta canards and probably already had a basic design to compete with the J-31.

3. Pakistan has never liked the AL-31 series because of the long spool-up time. The size of a twin AL-31 class engines may not be appropriate for Pakistan's limited area.

4. An RD-93 class engine makes a lot more sense and could have the potential for commonality. A twin on this account would fit in perfectly with Pakistan's needs and what Chengdu has to offer as a competition to J-31.

5. Pakistan has never liked trading range and speed for maneuverability. It never bought the J-8s or the JH-7s. So by the looks of this plane, it fits exactly that - a more maneuverable, smaller J-20 with minor design improvements.

6. With the V-tail and what looks like thrust vectoring, a small, close-coupled canard can do the job. The close-coupling also means that an LERX is redundant, as such a configuration essentially does the same thing for as a LERX.

7. A small canard has the possibility of being dielectric. i.e. invisible to radar if made with a tempered glass - plastic - epoxy substrate. This can have tensile strengths of about 120 - 140. Enough for a small canard but nothing too big. Close coupling would also lower the structural stress on such a design.

8. The front look is almost a copy of the J-20. That is a very interesting design choice - essentially it seems to say - why mess with something that works?

9. It seems to be a traditional stealth 5th gen. I was batting for recessed and conformally located weapons carriage. What this implies is that the engines aren't RD-93 based. As an RD-93 does not have enough power to take on such an airframe, you'd end up with horrid performance.

10. It makes no sense for it to be a twin steater as suggested in the diagram. But abstract fan art was never meant to be a perfect duplication effort.
all just you speculation/ wishful thinking of yours @Armchair :hitwall::hitwall::crazy::crazy: no one knows what is the design of project AZM either its a tail delta, pure delta, canard delta design, get out of your speculations/wishful thinking of yours @Armchair :crazy::hitwall::crazy::hitwall:
 
I believe there is a possibility this fan art is made by people who may actually know something. Similar to the hints that are dropped via abstract art in Chinese milavia.

Either way, thank you for your post. That was the sane analysis I was looking for. Here are the facts, as I see them:

1. Pakistan will work with Chengdu on the Azm project similar to the JF-17 project, except it won't be "joint" but a Pakistan specific project.

2. Chengdu is known for delta canards and probably already had a basic design to compete with the J-31.

3. Pakistan has never liked the AL-31 series because of the long spool-up time. The size of a twin AL-31 class engines may not be appropriate for Pakistan's limited area.

4. An RD-93 class engine makes a lot more sense and could have the potential for commonality. A twin on this account would fit in perfectly with Pakistan's needs and what Chengdu has to offer as a competition to J-31.

5. Pakistan has never liked trading range and speed for maneuverability. It never bought the J-8s or the JH-7s. So by the looks of this plane, it fits exactly that - a more maneuverable, smaller J-20 with minor design improvements.

6. With the V-tail and what looks like thrust vectoring, a small, close-coupled canard can do the job. The close-coupling also means that an LERX is redundant, as such a configuration essentially does the same thing for as a LERX.

7. A small canard has the possibility of being dielectric. i.e. invisible to radar if made with a tempered glass - plastic - epoxy substrate. This can have tensile strengths of about 120 - 140. Enough for a small canard but nothing too big. Close coupling would also lower the structural stress on such a design.

8. The front look is almost a copy of the J-20. That is a very interesting design choice - essentially it seems to say - why mess with something that works?

9. It seems to be a traditional stealth 5th gen. I was batting for recessed and conformally located weapons carriage. What this implies is that the engines aren't RD-93 based. As an RD-93 does not have enough power to take on such an airframe, you'd end up with horrid performance.

Indeed China and Pakistan has vastly different requirements, J-20 is the way it is due to our air doctrine, west pacific is her natural playground: super-cruise in, BVR snipe some dude, super-cruise out. Hence the emphasis on speed and range, decent subsonic maneuverability yet supreme supersonic maneuverability.

I don't know what PAF's air doctrine would be in 5th gen, maybe you or others more knowledgeable in it can provide some insight. However I won't write off J-31 now, it is obviously built to fulfill a different role from the J-20, as in shorter range/less payload/cheaper to maintain/less speed more maneuverable/maybe even smaller RCS....etc
 
Indeed China and Pakistan has vastly different requirements, J-20 is the way it is due to our air doctrine, west pacific is her natural playground: super-cruise in, BVR snipe some dude, super-cruise out. Hence the emphasis on speed and range, decent subsonic maneuverability yet supreme supersonic maneuverability.

I don't know what PAF's air doctrine would be in 5th gen, maybe you or others more knowledgeable in it can provide some insight. However I won't write off J-31 now, it is obviously built to fulfill a different role from the J-20, as in shorter range/less payload/cheaper to maintain/less speed more maneuverable/maybe even smaller RCS....etc

Hi enroger, the distances between PAF airbases and the enemy is very short. An interceptor-centric doctrine doesn't work too well. particularly combined with the multiple vectors that come into play. PAF doctrine is generally defensive.

PAF needs a 5th generation replacement for their F-16s. So, it may be a thumb rule to design something that can fit that role and be a fifth generation design.

I must admit, while I love the J-20, I don't quite like the J-31. The engines are underpowered for the design. What's more - the wing loading would be high. Range would be restrictive given two such engines with the size it has.

Air superiority is a major concern for PAF and J-31 just doesn't make sense, IMHO. Although the wisdom in this forum suggests both the J-31 has a chance of being bought as well as the Azm.
 
Hi enroger, the distances between PAF airbases and the enemy is very short. An interceptor-centric doctrine doesn't work too well. particularly combined with the multiple vectors that come into play. PAF doctrine is generally defensive.

PAF needs a 5th generation replacement for their F-16s. So, it may be a thumb rule to design something that can fit that role and be a fifth generation design.

I must admit, while I love the J-20, I don't quite like the J-31. The engines are underpowered for the design. What's more - the wing loading would be high. Range would be restrictive given two such engines with the size it has.

Air superiority is a major concern for PAF and J-31 just doesn't make sense, IMHO. Although the wisdom in this forum suggests both the J-31 has a chance of being bought as well as the Azm.

Well, plane design is a game of trade-off, SAC could easily put larger wings on J-31, but then it would not be able to super-cruise... besides wing-loading could be a little deceptive in 5th gen design since they all incorporate lifting body design where the fuselage may contribute some amount of lift. If PAF doctrine does not require super-cruise capability then it would definitely warrant a unique design to optimize agility.

Yeah RD-93 sucks, but final version of J-31 would use WS-19, that should give it decent TWR.
 
The design will be a clean sheet, paf design, it's already in the works,
Believe me or not is up to you, and ofc source can't be given
 

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