Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[cabatli_53]

Both China and Pakistan have great strategic foresight, that's why we decided to go along with each other for the last 50 years.

It's normal practice when you induct most proportion of the weapons from those counties that politically support you and able to produce the weapons you need.

Just like how Pakistan has been going with China and now adding Russia in some extent .

For say, can Pakistan sway its major procurement to Turkey?

First, Tukey is a NATO member. They will look after NATO's interest before they can do anything to help Pakistan.

Second, can Turkey gives veto in UN to those solutions against Pakistan? No again

Third: Turkey is selling weapons to India, not 100% political reliable.

Forth: Turkey weapons are sanction pro as most of the weapons they produce have parts and technology from the west.

Fifth: the industrial foundation and capabilityof Turkey is still comparatively weak. They only have research in some of the aspects, while China and Russia have intensive and complete study in almost all of the military fields.

PAF aims high they decide to go for AZM rather than buying off the shelf. Lot of sub-system will come from Turkey or west, but the main system will come from China.

If you are talking about the engine or radar, I can promise you 100% will come from Russia or China.

1- Turkey is a NATO state but chasing own benefits. It is the reason Turkish Army performs operations against allies of major NATO states next to own borders. When It is about solidarity between our brothers, We prefer not to discuss such relations with 3rd party people. Your purpose is visible in your statements but At least care your business as a Chinese and talk about Chinese-Pakistan things and Let us talk about brotherhood/friendship intention/action of our states to support eachother.

2- Turkey does trade with all states including Armenia, Greece, S. Africa, India...etc Those are general trade relations but You are talking as If Turkey exports strategic attacking/defensive systems which may harm our friends in their borders. Collapse of political reliability between brothers must be given with much deeper examples to make members believe what you are talking about.

3- Turkey doesn't have a strategic target to be %100 self sufficient. What Turkey does is to develop most strategic units/components/modules which is required to get permission from foreign governments to make a deal with suppliers when It is not developed in country. Rest would be unimportant components that can be outsourced easily. Pakistan is also making trade to purchase strategic complete products with Western countries, not solely with China.

4- Comparing Turkey with Russia/China in overall looks nice to make Turks "weak" but you can't reach correct results with doing it like that. China and Russia are giants compared with Turkish industry economically/industrially but Remember Pakistani software defined radio tender when Chinese and Turkish radios were participated on active field trials. As a result, Turkish radios got the highest score and Aselsan get the tender. Same radios had eliminated Israeli equivalents in Ukraine tender. No need to mention AselPod system that was favoured by Pakistan against Chinese rival. No need to mention T-129 Atak trials. Milgem is also done. Korkut AAG will also be next. I mean When specific products started to compete head to head, It will be quality on competitive price get the winner, not "weak" stories of us. I really appreciate Chinese rise in all field but There is also a fact that If China is more active than any other state in Pakistan, It is not about Chinese products are impressive compared to equivalents in quality. China fills a big gap of Pakistani market as an ally that Wests don't approach to provide against India which has huge market filled by West and Russia. That's the reason, Pakistan will need to diversify its requirements more in near future. Be it Russia, S. Korea, Turkey, Europe...etc. In same near future, Turkish industry would have almost completed development of ongoing strategic projects in all field. The variety of Turkish products on export markets will be 5-6x more than current situation with more national input in every passing year. When A requirement is described by our allies. This time, Turkey will seek cooperation opportunities in more fields with deeper/larger technological areas.

 

[帅的一匹]

I think he is talking about this news recently published
China’s new super-stealth fighter FLOP uses TWO DECADE old engines after new ones EXPLODE
CHINA'S new super-stealth fighter is a flop after experts revealed the jet is a disaster with Beijing forced to use 20-year-old engines after the new ones kept exploding.
By JOHN THALASSITES
PUBLISHED: 21:55, Wed, Feb 28, 2018 | UPDATED: 22:20, Wed, Feb 28, 2018

Trump and USA had begun to run all out negative publicity of China, just like how they fabricated the news of Syria goverment used chemical weapons recently.
These people just can't help....
Enemy's enemy.

1- Turkey is a NATO state but chasing own benefits. It is the reason Turkish Army performs operations against allies of major NATO states next to own borders. When It is about solidarity between our brothers, We prefer not to discuss such relations with 3rd party people. Your purpose is visible in your statements but At least care your business as a Chinese and talk about Chinese-Pakistan things and Let us talk about brotherhood/friendship intention/action of our states to support eachother.

2- Turkey does trade with all states including Armenia, Greece, S. Africa, India...etc Those are general trade relations but You are talking as If Turkey exports strategic attacking/defensive systems which may harm our friends in their borders. Collapse of political reliability between brothers must be given with much deeper examples to make members believe what you are talking about.

3- Turkey doesn't have a strategic target to be %100 self sufficient. What Turkey does is to develop most strategic units/components/modules which is required to get permission from foreign governments to make a deal with suppliers when It is not developed in country. Rest would be unimportant components that can be outsourced easily. Pakistan is also making trade to purchase strategic complete products with Western countries, not solely with China.

4- Comparing Turkey with Russia/China in overall looks nice to make Turks "weak" but you can't reach correct results with doing it like that. China and Russia are giants compared with Turkish industry economically/industrially but Remember Pakistani software defined radio tender when Chinese and Turkish radios were participated on active field trials. As a result, Turkish radios got the highest score and Aselsan get the tender. Same radios had eliminated Israeli equivalents in Ukraine tender. No need to mention AselPod system that was favoured by Pakistan against Chinese rival. No need to mention T-129 Atak trials. Milgem is also done. Korkut AAG will also be next. I mean When specific products started to compete head to head, It will be quality on competitive price get the winner, not "weak" stories of us. I really appreciate Chinese rise in all field but There is also a fact that If China is more active than any other state in Pakistan, It is not about Chinese products are impressive compared to equivalents in quality. China fills a big gap of Pakistani market as an ally that Wests don't approach to provide against India which has huge market filled by West and Russia. That's the reason, Pakistan will need to diversify its requirements more in near future. Be it Russia, S. Korea, Turkey, Europe...etc. In same near future, Turkish industry would have almost completed development of ongoing strategic projects in all field. The variety of Turkish products on export markets will be 5-6x more than current situation with more national input in every passing year. When A requirement is described by our allies. This time, Turkey will seek cooperation opportunities in more fields with deeper/larger technological areas.

Let's respect Pakistan's will, they will have the right choice.

As to T129, it's an Italian product With TOT to Turkey. And recently, it was just knocked down by Russian Man-pads in Syria by Kurds.

And one more thing, we will sign a security protocol with Pakistan that all know-how we transfer is only for Pakistan, we don't want any other free riders to take advantage of it for sure.

Turkey shall stay focused on TFX and we concentrat on AZM, see who gonna pull it off first. Don't feed on illusions.

 

[帅的一匹]

The new picture disclosed that the new generation of fighter engine we are developing for J20 is named after Mountian 'Everest', and 'E Mei' might be the ultimate derivative of WS10IPE with TVC. WS15 is just a project code, which was approved in early year 2006. Things change a lot since year 2006.
China originally expect that the max thrust of WS15 for J20 is around 15 tons, which the newly WS10X can reach the same thrust. Then the 'WS15' we expect today is not the WS15 we had in mind 12 years ago.

We are looking at a new engine with max thrust over 18 tons for J20.

If AZM is dual engine design, it can fit WS10IPE version with 15 tons max thrust, which is a mature product. And replace it with Engine 'Moutain Everest' when it's ready.

 

[Armchair]

And one more thing, we will sign a security protocol with Pakistan that all know-how we transfer is only for Pakistan, we don't want any other free riders to take advantage of it for sure.

I think this is exactly what Pakistan should avoid. The big part of why Pakistan wants TOT in the first place is so it can become and independent producer of weapons. With the above trend, China is steadily acting like the US and trying to lock-in Pakistan into a satellite state. This is exactly what Pakistan should be avoiding. And the raison de etre of why she should diversify her military procurement / transfer of technology arrangements.

 

[cabatli_53]

Trump and USA had begun to run all out negative publicity of China, just like how they fabricated the news of Syria goverment used chemical weapons recently.
These people just can't help....
Enemy's enemy.


Let's respect Pakistan's will, they will have the right choice.

As to T129, it's an Italian product With TOT to Turkey. And recently, it was just knocked down by Russian Man-pads in Syria by Kurds.

And one more thing, we will sign a security protocol with Pakistan that all know-how we transfer is only for Pakistan, we don't want any other free riders to take advantage of it for sure.

Turkey shall stay focused on TFX and we concentrat on AZM, see who gonna pull it off first. Don't feed on illusions.

It is you talking as If a Pakistani member against Turks as a third party propaganda mouth in Pakistan-Turk relations in here but asking me to respect the choice of Pakistan as if I am not the one. Turks don’t talk as If Turkey is the sole gate of technology to meet the requirements of Pakistan but support diversifying its procurements to get more benefits in ToT/direct deals/cooperations which certainly disturbs you. Besides, I am talking about general perspective of Turkish and Pakistan relations and You’re coming here regularly to talk about Turkish things with all false accusations/informations purposely. What I say for you is to just care your Chinese business more and concantrate more to improve quality of your products instead of playing word games over other’s relations. Let the brotherhood relations flow in its nature and respect the steps of your rivals instead of talking about them as If you know something better than me or Pakistani members.

Almost all things you claim about Turkey is false. In Syria, T-129 wasn’t hit by a Manpad. It lost the power of engine. Firstly you should put your helicopters into an active battle to judge other’s products with pointing out some criterias. Additions, Pakistani officials who participated into active trials of both Z-10 and T-129, knows better than you whether It is Italian or whether It is “weak” compared with others so your misinformation don’t get any attention.

 

[帅的一匹]

It is you talking as If a Pakistani member against Turks as a third party propaganda mouth in Pakistan-Turk relations in here but asking me to respect the choice of Pakistan as if I am not the one. Turks don’t talk as If Turkey is the sole gate of technology to meet the requirements of Pakistan but support diversifying its procurements to get more benefits in ToT/direct deals/cooperations which certainly disturbs you. Besides, I am talking about general perspective of Turkish and Pakistan relations and You’re coming here regularly to talk about Turkish things with all false accusations/informations purposely. What I say for you is to just care your Chinese business more and concantrate more to improve quality of your products instead of playing word games over other’s relations. Let the brotherhood relations flow in its nature and respect the steps of your rivals instead of talking about them as If you know something better than me or Pakistani members.

Almost all things you claim about Turkey is false. In Syria, T-129 wasn’t hit by a Manpad. It lost the power of engine. Firstly you should put your helicopters into an active battle to judge other’s products with pointing out some criterias. Additions, Pakistani officials who participated into active trials of both Z-10 and T-129, knows better than you whether It is Italian or whether It is “weak” compared with others so your misinformation don’t get any attention.

Brother's brother is not brother, that's all I wanna say about China-Turkey relationship. And I respect PAF, as always.

 

[dBSPL]

I think this is exactly what Pakistan should avoid. The big part of why Pakistan wants TOT in the first place is so it can become and independent producer of weapons. With the above trend, China is steadily acting like the US and trying to lock-in Pakistan into a satellite state. This is exactly what Pakistan should be avoiding. And the raison de etre of why she should diversify her military procurement / transfer of technology arrangements.

The only way for China to create an alternative to the Malacca Straits is to open up through Pakistan.

 

[KapitaanAli]

The only way for China to create an alternative to the Malacca Straits is to open up through Pakistan.

To be precise, the only way for China to create an alternative to Malacca Straits where their writ will rule supreme, is through Pakistan.

It's not the only way.

It's in the utmost interest of China to keep Pakistan dependent. Otherwise it's just another Afghanistan/Iran which won't mean too much.

 

[FuturePAF]

To be precise, the only way for China to create an alternative to Malacca Straits where their writ will rule supreme, is through Pakistan.

It's not the only way.

It's in the utmost interest of China to keep Pakistan dependent. Otherwise it's just another Afghanistan/Iran which won't mean too much.

Pakistan's goal should be to become symbiotic with china, not merely dependent. Pakistan needs to find goods and services it can provide to china that china can not produce or procure at a cheaper price elsewhere or internally.

To by pass the Malacca straits china is funding the building of the Thai Canal; where it may base military assets (completing the string of pearls; ports in Thailand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and Djibouti)

back to original purpose of this thread; project AZM
Pakistan should look at the research done by the Chinese on a JF-17 sized stealth Drone
a good indication of the design improvements to achieve stealth and maneuverability

(also Pakistan should look into fielding a naval squadron made up Lijian/Sharp Sword Stealth Drones; fitting them with Awacs like Aesa Radars for long range detection and fitting other versions with weapons bays and holding CX-1 Supersonic Cruise Missiles or other systems to engage or maintain surveillance of the enemy. it would help in ISR in times of heighten tensions and provide a higher likelihood of sinking any naval task force used in a blockade of our coastline and SLOCs)
http://indiandefence.com/threads/chinas-lijian-and-tian-yi-2-stealth-drones.55615/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LkX2L7LMs...Oc_5OwE/s1600/UCAV+Shenyang+Dark+Sword++1.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PJFWuLWfb...t+Arsenal++++Popular+Science+January+2013.jpg

http://megamagtest.blogspot.com/2014/05/dark-sword-stealth-drones.html

 

[Armchair]

Pakistan's goal should be to become symbiotic with china, not merely dependent. Pakistan needs to find goods and services it can provide to china that china can not produce or procure at a cheaper price elsewhere or internally.

To by pass the Malacca straits china is funding the building of the Thai Canal; where it may base military assets (completing the string of pearls; ports in Thailand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and Djibouti)

back to original purpose of this thread; project AZM
Pakistan should look at the research done by the Chinese on a JF-17 sized stealth Drone
a good indication of the design improvements to achieve stealth and maneuverability

(also Pakistan should look into fielding a naval squadron made up Lijian/Sharp Sword Stealth Drones; fitting them with Awacs like Aesa Radars for long range detection and fitting other versions with weapons bays and holding CX-1 Supersonic Cruise Missiles or other systems to engage or maintain surveillance of the enemy. it would help in ISR in times of heighten tensions and provide a higher likelihood of sinking any naval task force used in a blockade of our coastline and SLOCs)
http://indiandefence.com/threads/chinas-lijian-and-tian-yi-2-stealth-drones.55615/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LkX2L7LMs...Oc_5OwE/s1600/UCAV+Shenyang+Dark+Sword++1.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PJFWuLWfb...t+Arsenal++++Popular+Science+January+2013.jpg

http://megamagtest.blogspot.com/2014/05/dark-sword-stealth-drones.html

Interseting post. If the landings can be made more reliable, one could look to a really cost-effective game changer in a JF-17 sized UCAV. It has been proposed for a while, and project Azm purportedly has a design for it.

 

[Armchair]

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you the design of the Azm project (rumor). This picture that you view here, is your Azm 5th generation stealth fighter. It appears to look like a mini-J-20. Even has tiny canards positioned like a Rafale, closer to the main wing.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you the design of the Azm project (rumor). This picture that you view here, is your Azm 5th generation stealth fighter. It appears to look like a mini-J-20. Even has tiny canards positioned like a Rafale, closer to the main wing.

MORE LIKE YF-23 WITH HORIZONTAL TAIL STABILIZER/CANARD RATHER THAN A J-20 VERSIONS, AND THIS IS SOMEONE FAN-ART NOTHING NOTHING ELSE @Armchair

 

[Armchair]

Well, I believe its a *reliable* source, from a "Facebook" group, a *real* insider *cough cough*

 

[khanasifm]

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you the design of the Azm project (rumor). This picture that you view here, is your Azm 5th generation stealth fighter. It appears to look like a mini-J-20. Even has tiny canards positioned like a Rafale, closer to the main wing.

If you are already stating rumoured then who know what is the reality

 

[Armchair]

If you are already stating rumoured then who know what is the reality

Well, someone has to start the rumor mill, no?

I spent all night thinking about this design. I think that it makes sense if the smallish forward canard can be made of dielectric material (invisible to radar). Some of the things that are invisible to radar (dielectric) are: wood, fiberglass, Corning glass, GRP. A glass-plastic epoxy, if strong enough, could make smallish canards but don't have the structural strength (tensile strength) for larger surfaces.